What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

[Federate]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

Here are more maps I have recently come across of Armenia and Artsakh that are acceptable to use.

Bigger version here

Bigger version here

Bigger version here

[Icy]

Re: What are the N.K. borders?

Here is another good map if anyone want's to use it.
It's more, because of the looks but it is still correct.
I used it in one of my youtube videos which if you wan't to see it
it's this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjNxpOSL0b4

[Anoush]

Re: What are the N.K. borders?

Thanks Fed jan. It sounds hopefully to a good start to me; but one thing I don't understand. Why is it that Armenia till now didn't recognize Karabakh's independence as a member of the international community?

[Federate]

Re: What are the N.K. borders?

More about the map than anything else. It's about time that ArmeniaNow starts adopting the true and only factual map of the NKR.
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Armenia, Karabakh, Azerbaijan: Communities of the three countries have to define a dialogue format suiting all sides


Before reaching Karabakh for a visit that has just begun, considerable negotiation was required over how the representatives of Azeri intelligentsia would get there.

One option was rejected by the Azeri side – a member of delegation, Azerbaijan’s Ambassador to Russia Polad Byul-Byul-oghlu stated that he had no intention of going to Karabakh via Yerevan. The second option (crossing the Azerbaijan-Karabakh border), naturally, didn't suit the Armenian side.

Arriving finally by air, the representatives must now face the question of which direction to take their countries.

Despite the optimistic statements of international mediators the Karabakh settlement issue has not made any progress yet, and with the apparent activation of public opinion, the political decision-making might be postponed.

Last March, French co-Chair of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) Minsk group Bernard Fussier stated while in Yerevan that both “the Armenian and Azerbaijani” communities of Karabakh would be drawn into the negotiation process.

Azerbaijan’s reaction immediately followed Fussier’s statement – Baku started forming an “Azeri community”.

In early June, Baku hosted a funding convention of a new NGO named “Azeri Community of Nagorno Karabakh of the Republic of Azerbaijan”.

The newly-formed management structure includes its own ministries of foreign affairs, domestic affairs, propaganda, culture and education. In early March of 2009, Azerbaijan’s president Ilham Aliyev appointed Bayram Safarov as Chief Executive of Shushi region (in NKR).

Safarov stated that “no referendum can take place until the 65 thousand Azeri community is returned to Nagorno Karabakh”. (According to the census of 1989, the Autonomous Region of Nagorno Karabakh had 35,000 Azeri residents -- 21 percent of ARNK’s total population).

Thanks to mediators and international organizations, the political negotiations are gradually taking a civil course, or rather, intercommunity discussions.

Besides OSCE’s attempts, there are at least 3 processes in the course of which international NGOs are trying to arrange meetings of “communities”.

The oldest organization among them is Britain’s International Alert, which is planning the 4th Armenian-Azeri Forum, with participation of a Karabakh delegation. And, although it is not publicized, the Azeri delegation includes representatives of “Karabakh community”, hence, turning it into an intercommunity dialogue.

Eurasia Project Coordinator at International Alert Dessislav Russanova said that the fourth Armenian and Azeri NGO Forum will take place in late July in Moscow.

“The participants might be able to discuss – in conference and constructively – possible acts of good will capable of improving the relationship between the peoples,” stated Russanova.

Meanwhile, as a result of the Second Forum of NKR NGOs, a declaration was adopted, which reads: “ We, NGO leaders and NKR experts, are declaring our principles of participation in international peacekeeping projects: we will not take part in intercommunity projects or those of any other format contradicting and infringing our self-identification as citizens of NKR”. The participants of the second forum arrived at the conclusion that “the peaceful civil dialogue has recently shown tendency of being politicized, which is, essentially, distorting the factual situation and anticipates the results of the official political settlement of the conflict.”

Should Armenian NGOs take part in the dialogue with Azerbaijan on the Karabakh issue without Karabakh’s participation? The question, probably, needs a joint discussion among the representatives of Armenian and Karabakhi NGOs.

However, Heritage party sees a different way out of the situation stating that first of all Armenia has to recognize Nagorno Karabakh’s independence as a member of the international community.

“Armenia has to recognize the exclusive rights and responsibility of the authorities of the Republic of Nagorno Karabkh, and consider NKR’s independent status and security as priority issues in negotiations with Azerbaijan,” the party statement says.

The US Congress, which has been giving aid to Nagorno Karabakh for many years, shares that opinion. The Appropriations Subcommittee of US House of Representatives has recently passed the Foreign Operations Appropriations bill, providing for an increase in US humanitarian aid to NKR by $10 million. The subcommittee also approved the bill on the cut of aid to Azerbaijan because of Armenia’s and Nagorno Karabakh’s blockade.

http://armenianow.com/?action=viewArticle&AID=3891&CID=3705&IID=1242&lng=eng

[Karabed]

Re: What are the N.K. borders?

No one said that it was North Korea.

Like Karo said there was a post about North Korea, it got deleted.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: What are the N.K. borders?

No one said that it was North Korea.

There was some one posting about North Korea but I think the post was deleted.

[hipeter924]

Re: What are the N.K. borders?

Some sense is starting to show maybe?...

[Federate]

Re: What are the N.K. borders?

Heritage Party MP - Armenian Media Must Use Correct Map of the NKR
[ 2009/06/10 | 19:06 ] important society
Shushan Stepanyan

At a National Assembly question and answer period held today, Heritage Party Deputy Stoypa Safaryan touched upon the unprecedented number of journalists assaulted during the 2008-2009 period.

He mentioned the incidents involving Gagik Shamshyan, Lousineh Barseghyan, Gohar Veziryan, Edik Baghdasaryan, Argishti Kiviryan and Nver Mnatsakanyan.

We would have hoped that the government felt the responsibility to inform us and the public as to how the criminal processes in these cases is proceeding and if the assailants haven’t been revealed, why haven’t they?” Mr. Safaryan asked.

Turning to the Karabakh issue, Heritage Party Deputy Larisa Alaverdyan took up the issue of the map of the NKR used in Armenia. She said that she had been pursuing the matter for the past four months with the government without any official reply. Deputy Alaverdyan noted that only the ALM TV station uses the map printed by the RoA government that shows a united NKR and RoA.

“This has the force of a document even though the map displayed on the presidential website is the 1989 map. When will the other mass media in Armenia stop using maps that do not correspond to current reality,” Deputy Safaryan asked.

RoA Deputy Prime Minister Armen Gevorgyan said that he would review the matter with the State Property Registry to see all the legal ramifications involved.

Deputy Alaverdyan was not satisfied with the deputy prime minister’s answer. Holding up a copy of the government printed map she said, “This map is included in the national atlas published in Armenia and serves as a document of sorts. For the past ten years we have not only been xxxxxling the NKR constitution underfoot but the agreed protocol here. A review of the matter isn’t an acceptable answer for me. Either the rule of law works or it doesn’t.”

http://hetq.am/en/society/lalaverdyan-4/

[UrMistake]

Re: What are the N.K. borders?

He make no comment for the past nor the beginning of the war, complete moron with luck of education and journalism,some 1 inform the guy of how failed is his article.
It seems he takes info from wiki kai google.

[KanadaHye]

Re: What are the N.K. borders?

I like how this guy puts the whole conflict into perspective. Although I don't like the point of view he uses for the blog making Armenians look like the bad guys

February 5, 2008

Why you shouldn’t care about Nagorno-Karabakh (and why you might one day have to)

by Douglas Muir



A while back I started a series on “frozen conflicts” in the former USSR. The first two (on Transnistria) can be found here and here. I was planning to do them in order from least bad to worst (which would put South Ossetia next) but decided to jump ahead a bit to Nagorno-Karabakh.

What the heck is Nagorno-Karabakh, anyway?

Briefly: it’s a small, mountainous territory in the Caucasus, about the size of a small US state or a large British county. Until the USSR collapsed, it was part of Azerbaijan. But the population was mostly Armenians. So there was a vicious little war in the early 1990s, which the rest of the world pretty much ignored.

The Azeris lost, so today Nagorno is almost entirely Armenian. It claims to be an independent country, but nobody recognizes it.

So why shouldn’t you care?

Because Nagorno is small, distant, poor, mountainous, thinly populated, lacking in natural resources, and completely without strategic value to anyone but the Armenians and the Azeris.

Nagorno is pretty much the definition of a backwater. If you’re American, think West Virginia but without the coal. If you’re British, think Powys but… does Powys have any coal any more? Anyway, there’s just nothing there. There’s no reason for you to care about it.

(It is pretty, mind you. Nice mountains. Lots of forests.)

So why might you have to care one day anyway?

Because of the pipeline.

The BTC pipeline runs from Baku (capital of Azerbaijan, on the Caspian Sea), up through Georgia, down into Turkey, and out to the Mediterranean Sea at Ceyhan in southern Turkey. Because Azerbaijan and Armenia are in a state of cold war — no diplomatic relations, borders closed — the pipeline goes around Armenia.

Some key points about the BTC pipeline:

1) It is the only pipeline carrying oil out of the former Soviet Union that doesn’t go through Russia.

2) It carries a lot of oil. At full capacity it’s going to pump about a million barrels a day. By itself, the pipeline will supply around 1% of global demand for crude.

3) As oil flows out of the pipeline, money flows back in. The pipeline is earning Azerbaijan roughly a billion dollars a month.

Meanwhile, the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict is still unresolved. But unlike the other frozen conflicts, this one has a real chance of going hot again. Azerbaijan, you see, is using a lot of that oil revenue to arm; they doubled the size of their military budget in 2004-2006, and have doubled it again since.

The Azeris aren’t ready for a second round yet. The Armenians handed them a pretty convincing defeat last time, and this time they’ll be holding a strong defensive position in mountainous terrain. But day by day, month by month, the Azeri buildup is taking on a momentum of its own. One day it’ll be impossible for the Azeri leadership not to attack Nagorno-Karabakh.

When? As someone or other said in 1937, “Not this August, and not next August. But the year after that, or the year after that, they will fight.”

– It’s not inevitable. There’s an international negotiating effort — the Minsk Group — that has brought both sides close to an agreement a couple of times. There are still a couple of years in which to turn it around.

But internal Azeri politics, plus the new strategic element of the pipeline, are gradually pushing Azerbaijan towards war. If the two sides can’t negotiate their way out, then at some point the balloon will go up.

And if it does? Well then, pretty early in the conflict the Armenians will take out the pipeline. It doesn’t make much sense to let the enemy keep pumping money, after all. The pipeline is between one and two meters underground for most of its length, but that’s neither here nor there; modern heavy weaponry isn’t going to pay much heed to a meter of dirt. Its location is not a mystery; the gash made by its construction was easily visible on Google Earth. The pipeline goes far enough from the Armenian-Azeri border to be out of easy artillery range (the closest approach is just over 30 km) but it’s still vulnerable to air and missile attack. The Azeri oil money may be able to buy command of the air, but you just know the Armenians will keep trying until they take it out.

At which point the rest of the world will suddenly wake up and take notice. Oil doesn’t have much elasticity of supply right now, so a 1% reduction in world supply will result in more like a 3%-5% increase in price. Unless you live in Riyadh, you’ll feel the difference as soon as you next fill your tank.

This is just a scenario. But with every month that passes, it’s an increasingly likely scenario.

There are people working to prevent it, mind. It’s slow diplomatic slog work, not very glamorous. But let’s take a moment to think of them, and murmur a prayer or raise a glass: may they succeed, so that the rest of us never have to know any more about Nagorno-Karabakh.

http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/energ...e-day-have-to/