Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

[Mukuch]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

I got a question to every one what would happen if Serge decided to give Artsakh to Azeris. How would he do that he's not the president of Artsakh and the soldiers there have sworn an oath to protect the borders and are serving under the Artsakh flag not Armenian flag.

Common, who is telling stupid stuff? President of Artsakh? Who is that? Do you really think there is such a country called Artsakh? Serjik is the one who is in rule he can do anything he wishes. Other thing that people wouldn’t let it happen if they are not stupid ;but when I look at you and “Hayakakan” I am not sure about that at all...

[Mukuch]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

We need to develope armenia anf kharabagh and this should be our number 1 priority, it is more important today then anything else for armenians who care about anything armenian.

OK so lets open borders , and joyn EU as proud part of great , developed, democratic turkish republic!

[Mukuch]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

It doesnt really matter who you are, and i know full well what i am talking about. You cannot respond to the factual statements i made so you want to end dialogue "OK? Now piss off. End of conversation. And don’t come to me with that bullxxxx again". This just means you have no argument. Then you bring in insults which seem to be the hakmark of your responces "For you it is peas of bread with cheap Turkish butter for your kids, my values are different….
Now you can chill out and wait untill your governmant sells Karabakh and than what is resting of Armenia" as if i had something to do with the government in power there and you don't, as if your priorities and values are somehow better then mine.I suspect your just another flagwaving idiot like much of post911 america and for your information if you dont have bread and butter you will die and you and your values wont matter.The way you and many others talk its as if we have a huge and powerfull army that can kick turckeys ass and this government chooses to get rich instead of getting whats rightfully ours, well i think once you wakeup and see that your toughf words have no such army to back them up you will stay in whatever country you are in whiule your people in armenia feel the brunt of the consequences of such stupid retoric. If you have nothing to back up your big words then shut up or talk about something you do know about.Btw i was there in 93 and i know exactly what it was like and i dont want it to happen again!

It is important who am I as you were accusing me ( as you did it toward all Armenian Diaspora) that I am advising something to Armenians without feeling it on my skin. Well you are wrong. I say again where I was from 91-94 YOU WERE NOT THERE. You are a RUNAWAY hayastantsi who is accusing the people who wasn’t born in Armenia for being far from Armenia. You see how ridiculous you are? You do not need a big army for having some dignity and self-respect. All you need is a little brain and conscience. You are not a part of that government but you support it and yes that is enough for me to do not want to continue this discussion and not , I haven’t run out of arguments as there are plenty of them, I do not need to point you them just look around.

[Haykakan]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Your assumtions are incorrect but i guess that never mattered to you did it.I moved to the states when i was 9 in in 1981, long before things got bad.I was there during the dark years (dont you read the post before responding?)because i care about my relatives and my country and wanted to be there even in those days.If you got something against hayastantsis then you can go xxxx yourself.If you dont want to continue this discussion then please dont.I already said how stupid your assumtion is that armenia will become part of turckey just by opening the borders so i am not going to go over that stupid comment again.Unlike you i do look around and talking is better then war, you can hate the government as much as you like but you are crazy thinking they are selling out , LTP did try to sell out, maybe youy forgot? If this government goes down LTP will replace it, and we have seen already what he can do to our country.A lot of people like to bash the present government but just look at what they replaced, look how they won a war we had no business winning and look at how the standard of living has improved since LTP days.The USA government is much more currupt, it has sold the whole country including its foreighn policy to isreal.Before you completely trash something just think about the alternative first.O but i forgot you don't think that far.I don't want Armenia to suffer anymore then she has to and she has suffered enough already.No one is giving up kharabagh but they are trying to look for solutions all sides can live with and that is not a bad thing.The alternative is endless war with the odds against us and the people are tired of living like that.You offer absolutly nothing, no constructive ideas or new insights, all you say is the government is bad and is going to sell out even when nothing like that is happening. Your just a dim witted flag waver so dont try to think too much you might hurt your brain.

[Eddo211]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Let me explain how I see the big picture. The Caucasus is truly Ground Zero in Cold War II, the ongoing conflict between the U.S. and Russia. The U.S. along with Europe and the NATO military alliance regard Armenia, Georgia, and Azerbaijan as middlemen between the West and the gas and oil-rich regions around the Caspian Sea. The West has already laid gas and oil pipelines from Azerbaijan through Georgia and then on to Turkey and the west. The U.S. wanted those and future pipelines to bypass Russia and Iran because those two countries could close such pipelines to pressure the U.S. and others. The only possible pipelines routes, therefore, are through Georgia or Armenia. After the Russian-Georgian war last year, however, opening an alternative route has become more urgent. This is why there is pressure to open the borders (Turkish borders now………..Azeri border later). This is not for reconciliation (which no sensible human being can expect while Turkey still denies the AG), this is not for the benefit of Armenia, this is to run pipelines through Armenia to Turkey then to west and Israel………..and guess what, Armenians will end up building it for them on their backs.

Russia? They see the Caucasus as within its traditional sphere of influence, and regards U.S. and European interest in the region as hostile acts.
Simultaneously, NATO has been pushing into the region. Georgia, Azerbaijan, and to some extent even the ex-Soviet republics on the other side of the Caspian Sea, are on the path to joining NATO. Russia was already upset that, following the Cold War, NATO had absorbed the former Warsaw Pact nations of Eastern Europe. NATO is now attempting, in effect, to do the same thing on Russia’s southern border. Russia fears that it will eventually be virtually surrounded by NATO and will do anything to keep them out. Russia will support Armenia as long as it can use it to serve its purpose stopping this expansion.

Artsakh has to be part of this deal because the Turkish border opening by itself will serve no purpose to the grand plan. Azeris will not open their borders for nothing…….just like the Turks. What are the Armenian leaders asking for such a deal or are they working with cash only.

[Haykakan]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

I think eddo you got the grand picture pretty right.Unfortunately because of its location armenia is once again caught in the middle of two superpowers battleing over its control.I do not worry as much about the azeris though as i do about the bigger powers.I do not think azeris care enough about kharagagh to wage a dangerous war over it but they do need a route to the west for their oil.I think the azeris would be willing to make peace with us provided we give them some insignificant part of the land we now control around kharabagh(so they can use it to save face with the azeri public) and are willing to host the pipeline.The problem is that russia will not like this scenerio and it has great leverage over armenia.Armenia is in a bad situation because its economic development is hindered by russia in this scenerio and by the usa and the turcks should it stay at russias side.This is a lose-lose situation in my opinion.The resent victory of hardliners in iran further sets the bullseye on the caucuses as the only route to central asian oil.I see russia wining the caucus battle and keeping armenia and georgia under its sphere of influence thus shuttingout the west from oil riches in central asia.I think armenia will have to side with russia on this and remain dependent on her for good long time to come.The alternative is switching to the west and the turcks but losing russias security and possibly facing a georgia like scenerio in armenia.I don't think i need to remind people about the unreliability of the west as a ally and well we all know how 'kind ' the turcks have been to us in the past.

[Mukuch]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Your assumtions are incorrect but i guess that never mattered to you did it.I moved to the states when i was 9 in in 1981, long before things got bad.I was there during the dark years (dont you read the post before responding?)because i care about my relatives and my country and wanted to be there even in those days.If you got something against hayastantsis then you can go xxxx yourself.If you dont want to continue this discussion then please dont.I already said how stupid your assumtion is that armenia will become part of turckey just by opening the borders so i am not going to go over that stupid comment again.Unlike you i do look around and talking is better then war, you can hate the government as much as you like but you are crazy thinking they are selling out , LTP did try to sell out, maybe youy forgot? If this government goes down LTP will replace it, and we have seen already what he can do to our country.A lot of people like to bash the present government but just look at what they replaced, look how they won a war we had no business winning and look at how the standard of living has improved since LTP days.The USA government is much more currupt, it has sold the whole country including its foreighn policy to isreal.Before you completely trash something just think about the alternative first.O but i forgot you don't think that far.I don't want Armenia to suffer anymore then she has to and she has suffered enough already.No one is giving up kharabagh but they are trying to look for solutions all sides can live with and that is not a bad thing.The alternative is endless war with the odds against us and the people are tired of living like that.You offer absolutly nothing, no constructive ideas or new insights, all you say is the government is bad and is going to sell out even when nothing like that is happening. Your just a dim witted flag waver so dont try to think too much you might hurt your brain.

xxxx LTP xxxx serjik, xxxx you and xxxx any hayastantsi who is as stupid as you are. Why it is we always have to choose betvin tow pisses of xxxx the one which smells less? Why you are so limited in your imagination. What solutions for they can be looking possibly? With current conjuncture the Status-Qwo is the only solution for Karabakh. Any other solution is just selling out. If you assume that Status -Qwo is "endless war" than I am for endless war rather than giving lend to azeris or giving up on Hay Dat.

[jgk3]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

For the last time, enough with the insults or else you will be banned. You have every right to express your opinion, but it MUST be done civily.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

What he meant to say...

I don't trust LTP or serjik, why do you think one is better than the other? Why it is we always have to choose between the lesser of two evils? Why you are so limited in your imagination. What solutions for they can be looking possibly? With current conjuncture the Status-Qwo is the only solution for Karabakh. Any other solution is just selling out. If you assume that Status -Qwo is "endless war" than I am for endless war rather than giving lend to azeris or giving up on Hay Dat.

[jgk3]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

I know, which would've been a perfectly decent post that deserves a perfectly decent reply.