Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

[Eddo211]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

ARMENIAN ISSUE NOT A PRIORITY FOR TURKEY ANY MORE - EXPERT

7/September/2015

Turkologist Gevorg Petrosyan speaking to Nyut.am said that the
developments in Turkey are of great significance for Armenia. The
Peoples' Democracy Kurdish party which gathered 13% of votes at
the parliamentary elections has made a step forward and is getting
prepared for creation of Kurdistan- the thing Kurds tried to do for
decades and now they made a step forward.

"We must understand that Kurdistan will be created in the territory
of Western Armenia. As far as today the residents of this lands are
Kurds these developments relate to us as well," the Turkologist said,
stressing that Turkey fails to concentrate in anti-Armenian front as
its domestic and external issues divert this country from exercising
more accentuated anti-Armenian activity.

The expert finds that currently the Armenian factor in Turkish-Kurdish
developments is secondary.

"We must understand that currently the Armenian issue is not a priority
for Turkey. The Kurdish issue is a priority," he said.

http://nyut.am/?p=82395&l=en

Turkologist? lol......you think Turkey will give up its current borders with Armenia the Kurds are again being led around like their goats.

I don't agree with Turkologist......he doesn't know Turks.

[Eddo211]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Federate

Can you find a map of what they talking about? Will Nakichrvan be blocked off to Turks?

[Vrej1915]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Turkey's pro-Kurdish HDP party offices attacked in Ankara
8 September 2015

A crowd has attacked the headquarters of Turkey's pro-Kurdish HDP party, amid rising violence between Turkish forces and the militant Kurdish PKK group.
Pictures from the scene appeared to show the HDP building in the capital, Ankara, on fire.
Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu has appealed for calm.
Earlier, Turkish ground forces crossed into Iraq in pursuit of Kurdish militants for the first time since a ceasefire with the PKK two years ago.
Turkish warplanes also launched a wave of air strikes on bases of the PKK (Kurdistan Workers' Party) in northern Iraq.


Nationalists staged rallies across Turkey on Tuesday, hours after 14 police officers were killed in a suspected PKK bomb attack on a minibus in the east of the country.
The bombing came a day after another militant attack on the Turkish military killed 16 soldiers.

Newspaper attacked

HDP (Peoples' Democratic Party) lawmaker Garo Paylan told Reuters news agency that hundreds of protesters had attacked the building in Ankara.
"Police are just watching, he said. "What's being broken there is our hope of living together."
HDP offices in at least six other Turkish cities were reported to have been attacked and images on social media appeared to show those in the southern resort city of Alanya also on fire.
In Istanbul, pro-government protesters again attacked the offices of the Hurriyet newspaper, smashing windows. An angry crowd had stormed the building on Sunday accusing the newspaper of misquoting President Recep Tayyip Erdogan in a TV interview.
Mr Davutoglu took to Twitter to denounce the attacks.

"It is unacceptable to damage media institutions, political party buildings and the property of our civilian citizens," he said.
"I invite all my citizens with hearts full of love for the country to calm, embrace one another, and to have confidence in the state."
HDP leaders have accused Mr Davutoglu's governing AK Party (AKP) of stoking unrest to drum up nationalist support ahead of elections on 1 November.
The HDP entered parliament for the first time in June elections and its 14% share of the vote deprived the AKP of a parliamentary majority.
The surge in violence follows the collapse of a ceasefire in July between the Turkish army and the PKK.
The truce, which began in 2013, unravelled after a suicide bombing by suspected Islamic State militants near the border with Syria. The attack led to mutual recriminations between Kurdish groups and Turkey.
Earlier on Tuesday, Turkey's Dogan news agency said two special forces units, supported by warplanes, had entered northern Iraq and attacked two groups of militants.

At least 35 rebels were killed in air raids on PKK bases at Qandil, Basyan, Avashin and Zap, Anadolu news agency reported.
President Erdogan said the PKK had suffered "serious damage" inside and outside of Turkey and was in a state of "panic".
However, militants targeted a police minibus on Tuesday as it was heading towards a border post close to the Azerbaijani exclave of Nakhchivan, killing 14 officers.
Hours later, a policeman was shot dead when suspected PKK militants opened fire on his car in the eastern state of Kunceli.
In Sunday's attack, the PKK detonated bombs near two military vehicles in the village of Daglica, close to the border with Iraq.
More than 40,000 people have died since the PKK launched its armed campaign in 1984, calling for an independent Kurdish state within Turkey.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Turkey's Demirtas warns leaders heading towards civil war
BBC

The head of the pro-Kurdish opposition HDP has accused the ruling AKP of orchestrating nationalist attacks and pushing Turkey towards civil war.

No-one has been killed, but Selahattin Demirtas said "we are facing a campaign of lynching".
Violence between the army and the militant Kurdish PKK has escalated in eastern Turkey since a ceasefire collapsed in July.
Turkey is to hold elections in November after inconclusive polls in June.
As the atmosphere in Turkey becomes increasingly febrile, Mr Demirtas questioned whether the vote could even go ahead while temporary military zones were in place in 100 areas of Turkey's mainly Kurdish south-east. He said there had been 400 attacks on HDP offices in two days.

Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu took to Twitter to denounce the attacks. "It is unacceptable to damage media institutions, political party buildings and the property of our civilian citizens," he said.
But Mr Demirtas accused the prime minister and President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of taking "the decision to start this war and intensify it".
The HDP denies claims by nationalists that is a political wing of the militant PKK (Kurdistan Workers' Party) and its leaders have accused the ruling AK Party of stoking unrest to drum up nationalist support ahead of the 1 November vote.
The HDP entered parliament for the first time in June elections; its 14% share of the vote deprived the AKP of a parliamentary majority.
Over the summer, the AKP made a vain attempt to reach a coalition deal with rival parties.

'Living together'

The headquarters of the HDP (Peoples' Democratic Party) headquarters in Ankara was attacked by a crowd and set alight late on Tuesday while Kurdish shops and stores in several cities were targeted by nationalists.

HDP lawmaker Garo Paylan complained that police stood by as the party building was attacked. "Police are just watching, he said. "What's being broken there is our hope of living together."
Two newspapers, Hurriyet and Daily Sabah, were also attacked. Hurriyet had earlier been accused by President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of misquoting him.
Although no-one has been killed in nationalist protests, dozens of members of security forces as well as militants have died in recent days.
Fourteen police lost their lives in a bomb attack on a minibus near the eastern border on Tuesday, a day after 16 soldiers were killed in another PKK bombing.
Turkish fighter jets launched a wave of attacks on PKK bases in northern Iraq and ground forces crossed the border in pursuit of Kurdish militants for the first time since a ceasefire with the PKK two years ago.

Body in refrigerator

In the south-eastern city of Cizre, one resident told the BBC that a curfew imposed after deadly clashes meant that people were being kept under siege by security forces.
The body of a 10-year-old boy killed in the violence was being kept in a refrigerator by family members because restrictions on movement meant they could not take him to the mortuary.
More than 40,000 people have died since the PKK launched an armed campaign in 1984, calling for an independent Kurdish state within Turkey.
The ceasefire that began in 2013 unravelled in July, after a suicide bombing by suspected Islamic State militants near the border with Syria. The attack led to mutual recriminations between Kurdish groups and Turkey.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Federate

Can you find a map of what they talking about? Will Nakichrvan be blocked off to Turks?

Is this what you are looking for?

http://fr.academic.ru/pictures/frwiki/65/Ararat-Location.png

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Nakhitchevan,+Azerba%C3%AFdjan/I%C4%9Fd%C4%B1r,+I%C4%9Fd%C4%B1r+Merkez%2FI%C4%9Fd%C4%B1r,+Turquie/@39.5858013,44.1744912,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x40142e7307d10ea5:0xbcd74fc07d9ab2bd!2m2!1d45.4082269!2d39.2009126!1m5!1m1!1s0x406b20d99e2b09f5:0x9016d4e8530b3034!2m2!1d44.0436151!2d39.9200596!3e0

[Armynia]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Federate

Can you find a map of what they talking about? Will Nakichrvan be blocked off to Turks?

Is this what you are looking for?

http://fr.academic.ru/pictures/frwiki/65/Ararat-Location.png

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Nakh...39.9200596!3e0

Nakichevan road will not be blocked from turkey in near future.

However, Kurdish repeated attacks will make Nakichevan like a Leningrad. I mean no supplies and no aid will enter Nakichevan unless Kurds completely cut the road from turkey.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Nakichevan road will not be blocked from turkey in near future.

However, Kurdish repeated attacks will make Nakichevan like a Leningrad. I mean no supplies and no aid will enter Nakichevan unless Kurds completely cut the road from turkey.

When using historic comparisons, one must keep reason.
There can't be any similarities, between what happened to Leningrad, and anything that might happen, even in best scenario, for Nakhitchevan.
For some major differences:
- Nakhitchevan is not surrounded by its foe, that is us. At best we have 3 major access roads, all perfectly well defended by now. The rest of the territory is mostly protected by the Zankezur chain's impregnable barrier. If ever we have the chance to clean it ( that needs the neutralisation of Turkey + end of the russian veto), it will be more than a challenge for our armed forces... in fact, most of the front with Nakhitchevan is overlapping inside republic of Armenia territory. For huge sections of the front, they still do have topographic upper hand.. just as we do in Artsakh. This is because during Artsakh war, we underestimated this front, and they did took advantage on all sectors, when they could.
The last 2 major gains last June, and this year, a couple of months back, are just local correction.
We just returned to the legal border, where we should have been legally...

- Nakhitchevan is very accessible from the Iranian side, (Arax is the only obstacle), but yet again, I do not think Iran will do anything more than passive approach, in most scenarios. Till now, Iranian territory is open for vital traffic from Horadiz to Jugha....

- Nakhitchevan is very much accessible from turkish occupied Western Armenia, via a tiny appendice facing Yeraskh/Armash lakes. This road might be closed easily by our artillery, but yet again, this would challenge Turkey, and probably Russia, as garantor of Nakhitchevan's non reintegration into Armenian Republic (Moskwa and Kars treaties).
But even so, we will face a similar risk, since tree major life-road sections of ours are under direct control of the turko-azeri army corps occupying Nakhitchevan:
1- Yeraskhavan- Areni.
2- Saravan-Sissian.
3- Kajaran- Meghri.
Plus, they can as easily close our only official crossing to Iran, in Agarak....

- Nakhitchevan has full air access towards Baku (by the way flying daily flights over Jermuk), Turkey and Iran, and these won't be shut, in best scenarios. At best, the line to Baku will be diverted over Iran, costing them might be an extra 30'...

- The Kurds have yet done nothing serious to threaten the road link between Igdir and Norashen. They just bombed one bus, and potentially fired some rounds on a border crossing. Even if they stormed it, they can in no way keep such a position, as long as Turkey has such a huge fire power advantage, and full control of the skies, with limitless air superiority. At best, and I doubt they may, or even wish, they can harass the traffic by occasional guerrilla actions. This has nothing to do with a blockade....

- It is highly probable, than on a longer run, the Kurds, achieving huge gains (no matter short term costs with war, life losses...), by not only creating 2 Kurdish entities in Irak and Syria, but by digesting all of Western Armenia virtually, will have pretentzia for themselves, on Nakhitchevan. Thus, Nakhitchevan might be claimed not only by Azarbaijan, Turkey, Iran, but probably by Kurdistan too....

- So in any standard, Nakhitchevan can't be compared to Leningrad, since it is not blockaded, nor will it be, unless a very inprobable scenario where Turkey and Russia are neutralised, and Iran + Kurdish forces operating on Mt. Ararat slopes are actively our allies. This will not happen in any forseeable scenario....

[Eddo211]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

We could bomb the bridge and completetly cutoff Turkey by ground in Nakitchevan.

Two ways:
SU-25 or demolation crew.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Turkey Kurds: 30 dead in Cizre violence as MPs' march blocked
BBC

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34206924

At least 30 people have died in clashes in the Turkish city of Cizre since a military operation began there last week, Turkey's interior ministry says.

The ministry says most of the dead were Kurdish militants but the pro-Kurdish Peoples' Democratic Party (HDP) says 20 civilians were killed in the violence.
Locals say Cizre has been "under siege" since the military imposed a curfew.
On Thursday police stopped a delegation of HDP leaders who were trying to reach the south-eastern city on foot.
The group includes the party's leader Selahattin Demirtas and 30 members of parliament, who say they want to draw attention to what is happening in the mainly Kurdish area.
They were intercepted by police near Idil, 28km (17 miles) from Cizre.

Turkey-PKK conflict: Why are clashes escalating?
Deadly clashes between Turkish forces and the militant Kurdish organisation, the PKK, have intensified since a ceasefire collapsed in July.
Turkish jets have bombed PKK bases in northern Iraq and the army has boosted security and imposed curfews across the south-east.
Mr Demirtas said the humanitarian situation in Cizre was worsening, with people unable to buy bread or access water.
The body of a 10-year-old boy killed in the violence was being kept in a refrigerator by family members because restrictions on movement meant they could not take him to the mortuary, the BBC was told.
Interior Minister Selami Altinok said the curfew would continue until the military operation was completed.

MP Garo Paylan tweeted this photo on Thursday morning showing Selahattin Demirtas (centre, on phone) and colleagues


Mr Demirtas warned the country was heading towards civil war.
Turkish prosecutors are currently investigating the HDP leader for insulting the president.
They want to have the MP stripped of his parliamentary immunity.
Turkey is to hold new elections in November after inconclusive polls in June.


Separately, the interim government has deported a Dutch journalist.
Freelancer Frederike Geerdink, who was arrested on Sunday, was accused of links to the PKK.
Earlier in the month, two British journalists with Vice News were deported. Their Iraqi colleague remains in detention.
More than 40,000 people have died since the PKK launched an armed campaign in 1984, calling for an independent Kurdish state within Turkey.
The ceasefire that began in 2013 unravelled in July, after a suicide bombing by suspected Islamic State militants near the border with Syria.
The attack led to mutual recriminations between Kurdish groups and Turkey.

-------

PS: The name of the Armenian MP enlisted by the Kurdish party is in fact: Garo Balyan, and not Paylan++

[Vrej1915]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Turkey Kurds: Grim reports from Cizre
By Selin Girit
BBC News, Istanbul

A 53-year old mother of seven, Meryem Sune's body rests on a desk, wrapped in white cloth and bed sheets.
What is unusual about the picture taken in Cizre, a predominantly Kurdish town in south-eastern Turkey, are the bottles of ice surrounding her body.
Ms Sune was hit by shrapnel and died of her injuries, as she was not allowed into hospital for treatment, local reports say - due to a curfew declared over a week ago.
She could not be buried for two days and her body was first kept cold by ice bottles, and then in the freezer of a chicken shop.
Turkey's Interior Ministry said over 30 militants have been killed in Cizre in clashes between the security forces and Kurdish militant group PKK's youthwing.
But the pro-Kurdish People's Democratic Party (HDP) claim at least 20 of the dead were civilians.
Sibel Yigitalp, an HDP MP currently in Cizre, told the BBC an account of a family coming under fire.

"Zeynep Taskin's husband was working abroad as a truck driver," she said. "She wanted to give him a call. But they did not have a phone at home. So she went to her neighbour's house."
"As she was at the doorstep of her home with her baby in her arms, they came under fire. The baby fell to the floor, wounded in the ear and leg."
According to local reports, Ms Taskin and her mother-in-law Masallah Edin, who came to help her, were killed by sniper fire. There were two other people wounded in the same family.
"We called the hospital's emergency services. They said they couldn't come due to security concerns," Ms Yigitalp said. The bodies are reportedly kept in cold storage depots.
The Turkish government denies allegations of civilian deaths in Cizre.
In a televised interview, Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said "not even one civilian died" in the town and stated that the curfew would continue as long as necessary.
Mr Davutoglu insisted the people of Cizre were being looked after and that the bakeries in the town would be kept open.

However, accounts from Cizre contradict his comments.
xxxo Acar, who works for an NGO, says there are power cuts in certain parts of town, there is no water, and food in many homes is running out.
"There is a tragedy here. People are suffering. There are continuous clashes. Bombs go off. No-one can go out. The government says basic needs are attended to but people here are starving," he says.
Many similar accounts of what has been going on in Cizre are shared on social media. The hashtag #CizreUnderAttack has become one of the most trending topics worldwide on Twitter.
The local governor was not available to speak to the BBC to deny or confirm these reports.
In August, Cizre declared a status of "self-rule", in response to the ongoing operations against the PKK and the detaining of local officials.

Militants from the youth wing of the PKK - the HPG - blocked roads and dug ditches to prevent the security forces from getting into town.
The Turkish government says the operations are aimed at clearing mines from these roads, closing the ditches and maintaining people's safety and security.
On Thursday, a delegation of 30 HDP lawmakers, including the party's co-leader Selahattin Demirtas, were stopped as they tried to reach the town on foot.
Ertugrul Kurkcu, one of the delegation, told the BBC they wanted to go to Cizre to prevent what they called "atrocities against the civilians".
"For the last seven days, and for 24 hours a day, there has been a curfew in place. I don't think we've seen anything like this even in Gaza. People in Cizre have been living in hell," he said.


Critics accuse the government of "punishing" Cizre, as 85% of the town voted for the HDP in the June elections.
The HDP's success had cost the governing AKP its parliamentary majority.
Snap elections have been called for 1 November and concerns are being voiced about the security of the poll, especially in the predominantly Kurdish east and south-east of the country.
Ertugrul Kurkcu said that if the violence in Cizre did not end soon it might set an example for other areas.
"If the situation carries on like this, every town where the HDP got huge support in June elections will be treated in the same way. We think that will have terrible consequences," he said.