Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian policy)

[Tigranakert]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

Well same argument can be made for the modern day Turkey and the predecessor Ottoman State when it comes to Armenian Genocide. We still hold accountable modern day Turkey for the Genocide. Modern day Russia has sold weapons unfortunately to Azerbaijan and still does so, but even with all that we should still view Russia as a strong ally, because in the end of the day, their alliance with us has saved us at some crucial points in history and serve as an anti-Turkish weight in the region. No alliance is flawless.

You can't compare the Ottoman Empire - Turkey to the Soviet Union - Russia. This is not about if an alliance is or is not flawless. The difference is that modern day Turkey is responsible for the Armenian genocide, as the genocide continued under their rule, and as a matter of fact, most of the people who were (and are) guilty of the genocide during Ottoman years also had ruling positions in "modern-day" Turkey. The Ottoman Empire served Turkic interests, and Turkey serves Turkic interests. The Soviet Union did not serve Russian interests (hell, tens of millions of Russians got executed, their own culture and traditions forgotten, etc.), modern day Russia finally does serve Russia's interests.

The reason that the West is not hostile to Armenia like it is to other Russian allies (adversaries) is our diaspora and thus heavy lobbying power. Our situation would be much worse if we didn't have that lobbying power as West would be even more pro-Turkish/Azeris since the Turks represent Western interests in the region. We should always keep this in mind, but also work to have normal relations with the West, and use some Western ideals like regarding governance to reform and better our country. I am much more sceptical of the influence of certain Western liberal ideals, such as multiculturalism that could degrade our society.

The power of our lobby is a big imagination, even local gay factions are more successful than our defective Diaspora in the West. I wouldn't say the West is more hostile to other allies of Russia, just every country has it's own unique way to be conquered (taking into account it's history, culture, traditions, mindset, and geopolitical factors).

It is thus in our interest to have an active Turkish-Russian rivalry. If they ever became close friends, or even allies, that could have very bad consequences for Armenia. We have to be vigilent and make sure that doesn't happen. Because in the end of the day, we need to be on the side that is against Turkish interests.

It's never in Russia's interest to abandon Armenia, as it is their stronghold in the Caucasus. If Armenia ever comes under Turkic control, Russia will have difficulties controlling Southern-Russia. Anyways, even if you describe a utopia in which Turkey and Russia become strategic allies, this means that Armenia will be in the interest of the West, and thus we can become strategic allies with Western countries. The whole game will be turned around (and all the same arguments will apply).

The current reality is, Armenia is a nuisance for the West, yet an important ally for Russia (from the self-interest point of view), thus for the foreseeing future, our strategic alliance should lie with the Russian Federation.

Actually, I am a supporter of increasing Turkic-Russian relationships, as we have enormous potential to use this for our own benefit, but this will new topic as it's a long discussion.

[Mos]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

France is definitely not an enemy, the problem lies with people thinking it is an ally (there is an important difference between these notions). Furthermore, Soviet Union is not Russia, and Russians also suffered a lot under the Soviet Union.

Europe can be very useful to Armenia, and in a lot of things, I am "pro-European". The only thing which bothers me, is that a large portions of Armenians think (or are being brainwashed) that everything European is good, or that Europe will support us, or that European integration is all that matters. One always has to think in form of self-interests, and as much as I would wish for Europe to have important interests in Armenia, this is simply not the case. For the West, Armenia is a nuisance, Armenians don't have anything significant to offer for the capitalist West.

One has to understand this, as it will be potentially very dangerous to be dependent on an entity which would love to sell our country if they had the chance to do so, because it will be in their interests. Their interests currently are more aligned with the Turkic world and are fiercly anti-Russian, which is the only reason they pay the minimum of attention to Armenia, because their only goal is to annoy Russia by trying to drive a wedge between Russia and Armenia, it's not even about Armenia itself, we're a pathetic tool.

If one day something miraculous happens and Armenia suddenly becomes an immense important country for the West, in their self-interest point of view, then indeed we can develop more strategic relationships with them etc.

Well same argument can be made for the modern day Turkey and the predecessor Ottoman State when it comes to Armenian Genocide. We still hold accountable modern day Turkey for the Genocide. Modern day Russia has sold weapons unfortunately to Azerbaijan and still does so, but even with all that we should still view Russia as a strong ally, because in the end of the day, their alliance with us has saved us at some crucial points in history and serve as an anti-Turkish weight in the region. No alliance is flawless.

The reason that the West is not hostile to Armenia like it is to other Russian allies (adversaries) is our diaspora and thus heavy lobbying power. Our situation would be much worse if we didn't have that lobbying power as West would be even more pro-Turkish/Azeris since the Turks represent Western interests in the region. We should always keep this in mind, but also work to have normal relations with the West, and use some Western ideals like regarding governance to reform and better our country. I am much more sceptical of the influence of certain Western liberal ideals, such as multiculturalism that could degrade our society.

It is thus in our interest to have an active Turkish-Russian rivalry. If they ever became close friends, or even allies, that could have very bad consequences for Armenia. We have to be vigilent and make sure that doesn't happen. Because in the end of the day, we need to be on the side that is against Turkish interests.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

It's far better to ban foreign donations altogether, than to seek to improve compliance or oversight in this regard.

Yes, That's the way to do it! Make Armenia know that beggers can't be choosers. Within a month, Armenians everywhere will be crawling back to their erstwhile donors, pleading for renewed help - and the obnoxious Tigranakert and Mos will be at the head of that queue of pleading beggars.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

Not surprising, though I won't write off France as an enemy, they are still comparatively a friendly country. We are allies with Russia, even with the fact that the Bolsheviks did things against our interests, made concessions which hurt us, and later on top leaders such as Stalin appropriated Armenian land to Azeris thus igniting the Karabakh War that was to come. Russians also have sold a lot of weapons to Azeris including the powerful S-300. In the end, we can't expect our friends to do everything in our interests 100% of the time, but that doesn't mean they can't remain are allies and/or friends.

France is definitely not an enemy, the problem lies with people thinking it is an ally (there is an important difference between these notions). Furthermore, Soviet Union is not Russia, and Russians also suffered a lot under the Soviet Union.

Europe can be very useful to Armenia, and in a lot of things, I am "pro-European". The only thing which bothers me, is that a large portions of Armenians think (or are being brainwashed) that everything European is good, or that Europe will support us, or that European integration is all that matters. One always has to think in form of self-interests, and as much as I would wish for Europe to have important interests in Armenia, this is simply not the case. For the West, Armenia is a nuisance, Armenians don't have anything significant to offer for the capitalist West.

One has to understand this, as it will be potentially very dangerous to be dependent on an entity which would love to sell our country if they had the chance to do so, because it will be in their interests. Their interests currently are more aligned with the Turkic world and are fiercly anti-Russian, which is the only reason they pay the minimum of attention to Armenia, because their only goal is to annoy Russia by trying to drive a wedge between Russia and Armenia, it's not even about Armenia itself, we're a pathetic tool.

If one day something miraculous happens and Armenia suddenly becomes an immense important country for the West, in their self-interest point of view, then indeed we can develop more strategic relationships with them etc.

[Mos]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

France has backstabbed us numerous times. They gave Cilicia away to the Turks, and now we come to know that they sold the Hatay province for just 7 million francs to Turks, and at the same time are misusing such a tragic occasion as the genocide for their own benefit.



Where is the public outcry? Why don't I see dozens of media writing on this subject? If Russia did something like this, we would see articles with titles as:

''Russia, ally or enemy?''

''History has shown Russia prefers money over Armenians''

''Russia, the country of backstabbing"

''Russia will sell Karabakh in the near future?''

''Political analyst: Russia will sell Armenia in the near future''

''Public poll (organisation not mentioned): Armenians distrust Russians''

Not surprising, though I won't write off France as an enemy, they are still comparatively a friendly country. We are allies with Russia, even with the fact that the Bolsheviks did things against our interests, made concessions which hurt us, and later on top leaders such as Stalin appropriated Armenian land to Azeris thus igniting the Karabakh War that was to come. Russians also have sold a lot of weapons to Azeris including the powerful S-300. In the end, we can't expect our friends to do everything in our interests 100% of the time, but that doesn't mean they can't remain are allies and/or friends.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

Another example, today the Western media was massively quoting the story of Golos, an "independent election watch group" in Russia. It's a pretty vague story, in which they describe how certain people in a country of more than 100 million have been "pressurised" to vote for the United Russia party, including for example some professors somewhere in some city as some random students tells some story.

We'll, I can tell you, that there are also certain universities and colleges who are very anti-United Russia party and the professors of those universities totally disagree with Putin's view also "pressurise" their students not to vote for United Russia. Thus, the Golos "NGO" seems to be very biased in it's analysis.

It is quoted as being fully independent. Then after some research, you find out that they are fooling you, as it seems more than 90% of the budget is funded by the United States of America.

Golos is also subject to charges that it is a tool of Western governments, because almost 90 percent of its budget comes from USAID and because it is increasingly identified with marginalized parties. (Wikileaks Cable US.)

What a surprise! It's a very good timing though, releasing such a statement a few days before the State Duma vote. Anyways, this is an example of how a foreign-funded NGO can work to influence domestic politics and affairs in a country.

Watchdog complains of pressure on Russian voters

By NATALIYA VASILYEVA, Associated Press – 5 hours ago
MOSCOW (AP) — Alexei Balitsky, a student at Russia's top engineering school, is among hundreds of people across the country who have complained of pressure to vote for the Kremlin's party in this weekend's parliamentary elections.

The independent election watchdog group Golos said Wednesday that about a third of the 4,000 complaints of violations it has received so far come from voters who say they are being pressured — mostly by bosses at work or professors at universities — to vote for United Russia.
The party is supported by President Dmitry Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, but its ratings have been dwindling. Sunday's parliamentary election is being seen as an indication of public support for Putin as he prepares to return to the presidency in a vote now three months away.
Balitsky, a 19-year-old second-year student at the Moscow Institute for Physics and Technology, said he and other student leaders were told that if their precinct did not turn out for United Russia, it might harm the university's chances of getting state funding for a new dormitory.
He told The Associated Press that he and other student leaders were promised 2,000 rubles (about $63) if they delivered a turnout of 80 percent of the students in their groups.
They also were instructed to tell students who wanted to vote for a party other than United Russia to take an absentee ballot and vote at another polling station so as not to hurt their precinct's results, he said. The university's 2,500 students make up the majority of voters in the precinct.
Balitsky said the message was delivered by senior students and it was not clear where the order came from. The university staff have denied pressuring students to vote.

Alexander Kynev, chief of research for the Golos group, said that compared to the previous election four years ago there appears to be more pressure on people to vote for United Russia than on opposition candidates. In past elections, opposition candidates complained about routinely being blocked from campaigning in public places and about having trouble getting their campaign literature printed.
Golos set up a website to collect and display complaints of election law violations throughout Russia. It currently counts more than 4,000 complaints.

Kynev said that even those who do not necessarily support the opposition parties seem to be complaining about the pressure from their bosses or superiors to vote.
United Russia won 64 percent of the vote in the 2007 parliamentary election, but the latest polls show the party hovering at about 50 percent.
Along with Medvedev and Putin, scores of government ministers, mayors and governors take part in United Russia campaign events in their constituencies.
Under Russian law, state officials must take a vacation if they want to campaign. Observers say politicians combine their everyday work and campaigning, thus abusing their dominant position in a particular region or industry.
Liliya Shibanova, Golos' executive director, said that the active role that senior government officials take in United Russia campaigning "contributes to the inequality of election participants, which predetermines the outcome of the vote."

[londontsi]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

.


How much was Giligia sold for?

or it was a case of buy one get one free?

[Tigranakert]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

France has backstabbed us numerous times. They gave Cilicia away to the Turks, and now we come to know that they sold the Hatay province for just 7 million francs to Turks, and at the same time are misusing such a tragic occasion as the genocide for their own benefit.

Armenian-populated province was sold to Turkey for 7 million francs

November 28, 2011 | 14:42
ISTANBUL. – The Hatay Province (Sanjak of Alexandretta), which had passed to France after World War I, was given to Turkey, in 1939, for a mere 7 million francs.

Turkey’s Vatan daily’s correspondent obtained a document, whereby it became apparent that Turkey’s central bank had paid France 7 million francs for the Hatay Province. It is noted that it was because of this money that Hatay Province was handed over to Turkey. The Turkish president of the time, Ismet Inonu, PM Refik Saydam, and all the Turkish ministers had signed under the respective agreements.

To note, a considerable number of Armenians used to live in Hatay Province, but they left their lands after 1939. Hatay’s Armenian-populated Vakif village, however, exists to this day.

Where is the public outcry? Why don't I see dozens of media writing on this subject? If Russia did something like this, we would see articles with titles as:

''Russia, ally or enemy?''

''History has shown Russia prefers money over Armenians''

''Russia, the country of backstabbing"

''Russia will sell Karabakh in the near future?''

''Political analyst: Russia will sell Armenia in the near future''

''Public poll (organisation not mentioned): Armenians distrust Russians''

[Tigranakert]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

It's far better to ban foreign donations altogether, than to seek to improve compliance or oversight in this regard.

Than there would be public outcry, all the pro-Western and NGO's will complain, PACE and other European structures will put pressure on Armenia, etc. etc. and Armenians will say that we live in a dictatorship, negativism and pessimism will spread further, etc. and this will work against us.

Let organisations just require to register every foreign donation they receive (and put a maximum of say 10.000 dollars per month per organisation), and every time they make a speech or write an article, they should write that they are hired by foreign countries to do so. This will be better than how things currently are in Armenia, and the West will not be able to put pressure on us as they have the same laws.

[retro]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

No organization in Armenia should be allowed to receive money from a foreign political entity unless it registers with the Political Party Register and each time the organization receives funding from a foreign country, it would inform the Department of Justice and provide details regarding the identity of the donor, the sum donated, its purpose, and the commitments made by the recipients to the donors.[/B]

It's far better to ban foreign donations altogether, than to seek to improve compliance or oversight in this regard.