Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian policy)

[Mos]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

Tigranakert

Agitating against and projecting things on to the West is can only serve to isolate Armenia. Which is far from desirable, since Armenia is a small independent state with a large diaspora and in order to survive. It must be a outward looking and adaptable nation. Not insular, ultra-nationalist and xenophobic.

Londontsi is right in thinking that their needs to be greater focus on civil and social development. As no small part of the problem with the states in the region is that they are excessively dominated by their security/military complexes and a aggressive, tribal outlook, which perpetuates thier hostility to one another.

I agree that we shouldn't cut ties with the West or only deal with Russia and ignore the rest of the world. It is to our benefit to be on good terms with as many nations, especially the powerful players in the West. Of course our closer military ally will be in the East, mainly Russia.

I think though what Tigranakert often tries to point out is for Armenians not to fall into the illusion that anything that has to do with the West, anything that is "democratic", is necessarily the best thing for Armenia, and that we should develop our society not copying the European societies, but invest and improving on our own values. I also agree with him on the fact that the "human rights" assessments from the West often result in attacks or insults on the government, people, and military. There is no need for that. There's always room for improvement - it can be said and done in civil manner.

There are good and bad things to be taken from the West and almost every country. We are a young and growing country and in my view we are growing rather well. We need at times direction, criticism, to make that process better, in improving our social condition, better governance, less corruption, less oligarchic power, better investment environment, and so on. We also need to look to the future and deal with our demographic crisis and also make further investments in education and diaspora programs, and connect more and more diasporans to Armenia.

[retro]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

Tigranakert

Agitating against and projecting things on to the West is can only serve to isolate Armenia. Which is far from desirable, since Armenia is a small independent state with a large diaspora and in order to survive. It must be a outward looking and adaptable nation. Not insular, ultra-nationalist and xenophobic.

Londontsi is right in thinking that their needs to be greater focus on civil and social development. As no small part of the problem with the states in the region is that they are excessively dominated by their security/military complexes and a aggressive, tribal outlook, which perpetuates thier hostility to one another.

Some Emerson for you:

"Republics abound in young civilians, who believe that the laws make the city, that grave modifications of the policy and modes of living, and employments of the population, that commerce, education, and religion, may be voted in or out; and that any measure, though it were absurd, may be imposed on a people, if only you can get sufficient voices to make it a law. But the wise know that foolish legislation is a rope of sand, which perishes in the twisting; that the State must follow, and not lead the character and progress of the citizen; the strongest usurper is quickly got rid of; and they only who build on Ideas, build for eternity; and that the form of government which prevails, is the expression of what cultivation exists in the population which permits it.

The law is only a memorandum. We are superstitious, and esteem the statute somewhat: so much life as it has in the character of living men, is its force. The statute stands there to say, yesterday we agreed so and so, but how feel ye this article today? Our statute is a currency, which we stamp with our own portrait: it soon becomes unrecognizable, and in process of time will return to the mint.

Nature is not democratic, nor limited-monarchical, but despotic, and will not be fooled or abated of any jot of her authority, by the pertest of her sons: and as fast as the public mind is opened to more intelligence, the code is seen to be brute and stammering. It speaks not articulately, and must be made to. Meantime the education of the general mind never stops. The reveries of the true and simple are prophetic. What the tender poetic youth dreams, and prays, and paints today, but shuns the ridicule of saying aloud, shall presently be the resolutions of public bodies, then shall be carried as grievance and bill of rights through conflict and war, and then shall be triumphant law and establishment for a hundred years, until it gives place, in turn, to new prayers and pictures. The history of the State sketches in coarse outline the progress of thought, and follows at a distance the delicacy of culture and of aspiration."

[Tigranakert]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

The problem is NON application of the law.

Armenia has a constitution.
Armenia has laws, but (some) are not applied but circumvented.

Application of the law is not evolutionary, but its enacted on the day it is stated it will come into force.

A simple example to demonstrate what I mean.

There is a relevant law which states all advertisement on Armenian TV (media?) should be in Armenian.

If you watch Armenian TV its obvious it is not applied. Why not?
Because those advertisers are companies belonging to the oligarchs and do not give a damn to such laws.
How they can get away with it? Your guess is as good as mine.

This is a very small example.
One could go on and highlight many such examples.

I repeat application of the law is not evolutionary.
If it exists should be applied.

You still continue your illogical ranting. You are just too naive to believe that if laws are applied, the problem will vanish, it actually has nothing to do with the laws, nor the state, nor government efficiency, nor corruption, directly (indirect, a little bit). They can always find something to complain on and spread pessimism, negativism and anti-Russian sentiments among the Armenian population. Understand that even if Armenia's economy grows, corruption becomes less, government efficiency grows, laws being applied more, all will be in vain if we do not counter their propaganda war directly; we have to change from being defensive, to being offensive in our information campaign. I see this is something impossible for you to understand, and probably you will again continue with your illogical off-topic ranting, Londoner (probably you have been brainwashed by the British).

An example in children's language, if you really still do not understand what the problem is.

What you are stating is the following; they are bombing our cities with rockets, we have to continue to repair our buildings and build new ones, even though they will never stop bombing our cities. This is an endless cycle, they will bomb our cities, we will try to rebuild them, they will bomb it again etc. All will be in vain.

What I say is; yes of course we should develop our city, build more buildings, repair more buildings, but for their destructive campaign to end, we have to attack them and eliminate them so they can not bomb our cities any longer, only then we will be successful in keeping our cities in good shape and continue to develop them.

The message: even if we improve government efficiency, reduce corruption, etc., this is not the solution to the problem. We have to counter them directly.

[londontsi]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

I again repeat, the problem is deeper than for our government to fight corruption, dilute the role of oligarchy, etc., as this is a long-term process, and is relatively never ending. The so-called "scorched earth policy" is useless in this case, as they have been using these tactics successfully in much richer and developed countries as well, but I see you just don't understand this.

The problem is NON application of the law.

Armenia has a constitution.
Armenia has laws, but (some) are not applied but circumvented.

Application of the law is not evolutionary, but its enacted on the day it is stated it will come into force.

A simple example to demonstrate what I mean.

There is a relevant law which states all advertisement on Armenian TV (media?) should be in Armenian.

If you watch Armenian TV its obvious it is not applied. Why not?
Because those advertisers are companies belonging to the oligarchs and do not give a damn to such laws.
How they can get away with it? Your guess is as good as mine.

This is a very small example.
One could go on and highlight many such examples.

I repeat application of the law is not evolutionary.
If it exists should be applied.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

To compete head on with any western media (propaganda) with the hope of winning would be stupidity at its height.
When people can see things around them not quite right and counter foreign propaganda that everything is ok is naivety to the extreme.

We have to deprive them of the environment in which to survive.
“Scorched earth policy” if you will.

That can only happen if the people can see changes towards the better in all aspects of civil society.
Things do not need to be perfect but appear to have a correct direction (evolution), this is where people will believe in their better future.

It would be ridiculous to act as a “stronger monkey” when we are not.

Just total bullxxxx. To compete with Western countries on an international stage, is nearly impossible indeed. But to compete with Western countries (and not only Western countries, but also Turkic countries etc.) within our own borders, is certainly possible, which is also what I am advocating for.

I again repeat, the problem is deeper than for our government to fight corruption, dilute the role of oligarchy, etc., as this is a long-term process, and is relatively never ending. The so-called "scorched earth policy" is useless in this case, as they have been using these tactics successfully in much richer and developed countries as well, but I see you just don't understand this.

The things being advocated for by pro-Western media and their anti-Russian and corrupt view on democracy, can never be fulfilled in Armenia, as most of their goals are anti-Armenian in nature, which means that the information warfare and propaganda will continue, no matter if our economy grows and Armenia prospers. Again, even if Armenia becomes twice as rich, even if corruption is twice less, even if people's salary grows two-fold, the same propaganda and negative and pessimist information warfare can and will be spread. To counter this, we have to use other means. The "scorched-earth" policy is one-hundred percent rubbish to counter these kind of warfare.

Armenian Army strategy is well expressed by the authorities that it does not aspired to match their fire power but achieve parity through asymmetric means.
“Smarter Monkey" if you wish.

You can look at it in two ways. I would say, we are using the same "methods", which is weapons. Only we are outsmarting them in this field and use them far more effectively, which is also what I said in my post, using the same "methods" and outsmart them in this regard. Smarter Armenian if you wish. I see you love monkeys.

[londontsi]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

Its a dilemma I would say.

It should not be a dilemma to decide what our people deserve.
Agree would be difficult to achieve.

Requires strong and decisive leadership.
Strong does not mean the type that supresses the people (ala Aliev).
But courage to handle the shortcomings that our country has and which are hindering development and strengthening of the country and its people.

[Serjik]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

Bro I have to in all honesty admit you are right. We cant complete with the West is when our homeland is still young and problematic where the West is fully developed. Its a dilemma I would say.

To compete head on with any western media (propaganda) with the hope of winning would be stupidity at its height.
When people can see things around them not quite right and counter foreign propaganda that everything is ok is naivety to the extreme. We have to deprive them of the environment in which to survive.
“Scorched earth policy” if you will.

[londontsi]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

Again, you did not get the point of my message (as usual), and as usual you don’t really add something to this topic and you ruin it’s content. It’s like saying, “Azeris are using weapons to kill us, we shouldn’t use weapons too, because then we are a monkey”. It’s a waste of time responding to your messages.

Armenian Army strategy is well expressed by the authorities that it does not aspired to match their fire power but achieve parity through asymmetric means.
“Smarter Monkey" if you wish.

Again, to win in the information and propaganda campaign, Armenians have to stop being defensive, we have to use the similar dirty tactics and methods, and outsmart them in this regard.

If foreign countries use “human rights activists” in Armenia for their own benefit, the strongest way to counter them is to fund your own groups of thousands of “human rights activists” and use their own arguments against them.

If the propaganda machine is working day and night to find something negative about Russia, to influence the Armenian masses to hate Russians, distrust Russians, so as to make them more pro-European (anti-Armenian), the way to counter this is to find every negative thing about Europe (which is not hard) and influence Armenians and raise awareness of the dirty political games the West is using. As I already said, Sarkozy has been misusing the Armenian genocide, he backstabbed us as he send his foreign minister to Turkey to apologize. Almost NOTHING has been said about this in the Armenian media, hell would break loose if Russia did an act like this. There is an enormous imbalance regarding the flow of information in Armenia.

If they are influencing Diasporan Armenians by the dozens of websites they have created specifically for English-speaking Armenians (ArmeniaNow.com, hetq.am, etc., 99% of the articles are written to spread negativism, pessimism and anti-Russian sentiment among English-speaking Armenians), we also have to make dozens of websites specifically for English-speaking Armenians to counter their brainwashing activities. For example, one could create a website, NowArmenia.com, which highly values human rights and democracy, and write hundreds of articles on the hypocrisy of Western countries and their anti-Armenian policy and human rights abuses. There are dozens of way to counter them...

To compete head on with any western media (propaganda) with the hope of winning would be stupidity at its height.
When people can see things around them not quite right and counter foreign propaganda that everything is ok is naivety to the extreme.

We have to deprive them of the environment in which to survive.
“Scorched earth policy” if you will.

That can only happen if the people can see changes towards the better in all aspects of civil society.
Things do not need to be perfect but appear to have a correct direction (evolution), this is where people will believe in their better future.

It would be ridiculous to act as a “stronger monkey” when we are not.

Mr. I prefer to be called Londontsi.

Repeating a stale “joke” or a stale propaganda line says something about how articulate you are.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

Haysip

Venezuela's gold reserves are now in Chavez's safe hands!

Does he need THAT much gold to replace all the teeth that fell out after his chemo?

That silly peasant Chavez, doesn't he know that people don't eat gold, and they can only wear so much gold bling! Gold is only vauable because banks and nations use it as reserves. If the idiot "repatriates" gold owned by Venezuela, it just makes it worth much less for Venezuela! Maybe he is planning to make solid gold urinals for his voters to piss their futures away on.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

That is the way of the monkey, imitate the guy opposite you.

However in order to win you have to be a smarter and stronger monkey.

Monkey you may be but smarter and stronger I doubt it.

Again, you did not get the point of my message (as usual), and as usual you don’t really add something to this topic and you ruin it’s content. It’s like saying, “Azeris are using weapons to kill us, we shouldn’t use weapons too, because then we are a monkey”. It’s a waste of time responding to your messages.

Again, to win in the information and propaganda campaign, Armenians have to stop being defensive, we have to use the similar dirty tactics and methods, and outsmart them in this regard.

If foreign countries use “human rights activists” in Armenia for their own benefit, the strongest way to counter them is to fund your own groups of thousands of “human rights activists” and use their own arguments against them.

If the propaganda machine is working day and night to find something negative about Russia, to influence the Armenian masses to hate Russians, distrust Russians, so as to make them more pro-European (anti-Armenian), the way to counter this is to find every negative thing about Europe (which is not hard) and influence Armenians and raise awareness of the dirty political games the West is using. As I already said, Sarkozy has been misusing the Armenian genocide, he backstabbed us as he send his foreign minister to Turkey to apologize. Almost NOTHING has been said about this in the Armenian media, hell would break loose if Russia did an act like this. There is an enormous imbalance regarding the flow of information in Armenia.

If they are influencing Diasporan Armenians by the dozens of websites they have created specifically for English-speaking Armenians (ArmeniaNow.com, hetq.am, etc., 99% of the articles are written to spread negativism, pessimism and anti-Russian sentiment among English-speaking Armenians), we also have to make dozens of websites specifically for English-speaking Armenians to counter their brainwashing activities. For example, one could create a website, NowArmenia.com, which highly values human rights and democracy, and write hundreds of articles on the hypocrisy of Western countries and their anti-Armenian policy and human rights abuses. There are dozens of way to counter them...

Considering that only comment you could come up with is .....

........ shows the level of your intellect.

Speak for yourself. You are diluting this topic and are only making senseless off-topic remarks. Mr. I prefer to be called Londontsi.