Agriculture

[Vrej1915]

Re: Agriculture

If this railroad is going to be built, what a better way to ruin this by having an issue with smelly animals! Who but the Joo wins by this? Are we just listening to one make up story and forgetting the rest?



Again who wins?

No railroad for you, you can't even discuss sheep, so said the joo. Did not think you were this lost as to go with the flow this easily! With this said one more time, please step back and think again. Because if you think wrong no railroad for you, so please be careful, you will do worse then just hurt my feelings you just might make the joo really happy! So don't enjoy yourself too much, the more you enjoy it the happier you make the joo!


Getze Hayastan!

Abriss,
All this program comes from the enemies of the 2 states....
First of all the Turks, who win in every outcome...

Or this works, and they return from the window, after being ousted from the door....
Or it turns into an enmity between the 2 nations...

That's what I said.
If our 'bosses' are so corrupted that they are ready to sell their mothers for a couple of million... maybe someone in Tehran will see their national interest, and abort this project...

[Vahram]

Re: Agriculture

Vahram, what the Iranian ambassador said is just blabla, trying a cheap smoke screen.
Nothing new there.

If this railroad is going to be built, what a better way to ruin this by having an issue with smelly animals! Who but the Joo wins by this? Are we just listening to one make up story and forgetting the rest?

I do understand you do not beleive it is only 2,5 M, but unfortunately, this is the result of corruption and betrayal from our side..;
Nomads do play their game, in their national interest...

Again who wins?

No railroad for you, you can't even discuss sheep, so said the joo. Did not think you were this lost as to go with the flow this easily! With this said one more time, please step back and think again. Because if you think wrong no railroad for you, so please be careful, you will do worse then just hurt my feelings you just might make the joo really happy! So don't enjoy yourself too much, the more you enjoy it the happier you make the joo!


Getze Hayastan!

[Vrej1915]

Re: Agriculture

Hokis, Federated posted what the Minster from Iran stated. In that he said 2 to 3 Million sheep. Your making it seem like I'm reading something else. This yields billions for us taken from a price of 75 a head. BTW I gave you the 75 number just to be fair, the current price is a 150! You are telling me they can have what they want for 2.5 million. I have a hard time in believing that Armenia is going to let all this happen for 2.5 million please!

If the condition is all this for 2.5 million I have plainly said before feck this deal! However I'm having a hard time gulping that all this will make us only 2.5 million. Be fair and reasonable! You have a point I have said so plenty of times already, yet you fail to see any profit at all from this.



I don't know what is straight I see two side to the argument. I see making a lot of money, I also see your point. However your point is that there is no money to be made and the place will be filled with toorks. Since when do you think for 2 stinking million I would ever agree to Armenia being overrun with toorks? I'm being reasonable according to what has been shown to us as far as monies being made. Even with this I'm also acknowledging your points without dismissing them. We owe it to Hayastan to understand just how much money can be made. So far you keep pointing out about this " LISKA " Yet we have a lot of other information. Is the Liska deal just with the land right and not the outright sale of the sheep? I have a very hard time bro in thinking that for 2.5 million Armenia is going to let itself be xxxxxled by toorks, not after all that we have done! not after NKR and the brilliant political things we have done as of late. Again if the money is substantial then we have to sit down and think of it for what it is, and not outright dismiss the money that can be made.

Come on man please be reasonable!

Thank god you are not one of the liberals Verj, we would not be able to have a lengthy conversation. Also please have a little understanding you are not the only one here with a Verj to solve!

Getze Hayastan!

Vahram, what the Iranian ambassador said is just blabla, trying a cheap smoke screen.
Nothing new there.
Everybody knows that there is potential of 3 million minimum, since this number was the number reached by tatar nomads before 1988...
Now, we never managed to do that after their departure, and will never be able, for reasons I will not repeat.

The only real deal proposed to us, is here, on post #60, on an other thread I began

and yet again here:

http://forum.hyeclub.com/showthread.php/20213-Menk-mer-tzerov-badouhanitz-ners-yenk-hraviroum-tshnamin

http://hetq.am/arm/news/22960/syuniqi-marzi-11--y-qochvorneri-arotavayr.html

I do understand you do not beleive it is only 2,5 M, but unfortunately, this is the result of corruption and betrayal from our side..;
Nomads do play their game, in their national interest...

[Vahram]

Re: Agriculture

They will not ask us to keep, breed, and purchase sheep...
They want us to give them our land virtually for free, so that they can produce and export..; so you billions are for them.

Hokis, Federated posted what the Minster from Iran stated. In that he said 2 to 3 Million sheep. Your making it seem like I'm reading something else. This yields billions for us taken from a price of 75 a head. BTW I gave you the 75 number just to be fair, the current price is a 150! You are telling me they can have what they want for 2.5 million. I have a hard time in believing that Armenia is going to let all this happen for 2.5 million please!

If the condition is all this for 2.5 million I have plainly said before feck this deal! However I'm having a hard time gulping that all this will make us only 2.5 million. Be fair and reasonable! You have a point I have said so plenty of times already, yet you fail to see any profit at all from this.

Why do you not look at it straight, like it is???

I don't know what is straight I see two side to the argument. I see making a lot of money, I also see your point. However your point is that there is no money to be made and the place will be filled with toorks. Since when do you think for 2 stinking million I would ever agree to Armenia being overrun with toorks? I'm being reasonable according to what has been shown to us as far as monies being made. Even with this I'm also acknowledging your points without dismissing them. We owe it to Hayastan to understand just how much money can be made. So far you keep pointing out about this " LISKA " Yet we have a lot of other information. Is the Liska deal just with the land right and not the outright sale of the sheep? I have a very hard time bro in thinking that for 2.5 million Armenia is going to let itself be xxxxxled by toorks, not after all that we have done! not after NKR and the brilliant political things we have done as of late. Again if the money is substantial then we have to sit down and think of it for what it is, and not outright dismiss the money that can be made.

Come on man please be reasonable!

Thank god you are not one of the liberals Verj, we would not be able to have a lengthy conversation. Also please have a little understanding you are not the only one here with a Verj to solve!

Getze Hayastan!

[Vrej1915]

Re: Agriculture

Verj even at 75 that's a lot of money, that is 3.625 Billion based on 3 million sheep. Now I will give you even more lets say it's 2 million that still 2.28 Billion!

Again please don't make a mistake in thinking I want toorks on our land, and I also stated that I don't like it but it is a choice to make. Don't minimize the money coming in from this deal! You are dismissing every point raised, if it was only for 2 million hell no, but 2 billion USD is not a joke bro! As far as other costs well that is part of moving money in the economy. They have to pay a doctor to check the sheep and maybe give it medicine? cha ching, more revenue more money moving about and changing hands. With all the sheep there are tax dollars at stake. What else do you want to minimize? Remember we can talk about this all day it still boils down to making a 15 year choice. Not minimizing anything you have pointed out, but please consider the economic benefit don't so easily dismiss it, sadly we are in no shape to refuse everything.

Vahram Sirelis,
The deal negociated by LISKA is limpid.
It says: 2,5 Million USD a year....
Or in detail: 25 USD/hectar in the beginning, for the rent of 50.000 hectars: that is only 1.250.000 USD
It is possible, that they will go to 100.000 hectars, that is 2.5 million

What are we talking about?
They will not ask us to keep, breed, and purchase sheep...
They want us to give them our land virtually for free, so that they can produce and export..; so you billions are for them.
We will only get 2.5 Million at best (!), plus the Turkish nomads on the back of our troops today... and something like 100 tatar/turk/kurd villages with their mosques, in a decade...
Just like in 30-s... You had more than 100 tatar villages in Zankezur.
Don't you remember??
Why do you not look at it straight, like it is???

[Vahram]

Re: Agriculture

Verj even at 75 that's a lot of money, that is 3.625 Billion based on 3 million sheep. Now I will give you even more lets say it's 2 million that still 2.28 Billion!

Again please don't make a mistake in thinking I want toorks on our land, and I also stated that I don't like it but it is a choice to make. Don't minimize the money coming in from this deal! You are dismissing every point raised, if it was only for 2 million hell no, but 2 billion USD is not a joke bro! As far as other costs well that is part of moving money in the economy. They have to pay a doctor to check the sheep and maybe give it medicine? cha ching, more revenue more money moving about and changing hands. With all the sheep there are tax dollars at stake. What else do you want to minimize? Remember we can talk about this all day it still boils down to making a 15 year choice. Not minimizing anything you have pointed out, but please consider the economic benefit don't so easily dismiss it, sadly we are in no shape to refuse everything.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Agriculture

$150 USD per sheep, times 3 million sheep = 450 million USD a year * 15 years = 6.75 Billion USD.

Sadly if you wanted to count in AMD the price is in the Trillions.

I see, this is only wishful counting.
We will never manage to have 3 million sheep, for that you would need approximately half a million Armenian nomads...
(Very rough calculation, 50.000 Yezidis keep approx 450-50.000 sheep...)
Useless to say: Impossible.

Only a big influx of nomads would get that target.
Plus, the price of sheep is not 150.
That's the price on street selling.
When you will have hundred of thousands on sale, you would be happy, if you get 75...
Plus you are omitting to calculate the costs and hasards..
There are some big ones...

But still, if calculate on a century long period (why 15 years?), you may get billions.

Now, returning to ground: the huge Bonanza offered by Lfig's deel is no more than 2,5 Million/year...
Is it worth the blood and enmity that will result between two neutral nations?

If turks got together to foment a big trap for Armenia and Iran, they could not have dreamt of a better plan.....

My wishful thinking this time:
Let the Iranian leaders think about this and its very predictable results for a while..
They already did a very huge service to turk:tatars during Shah Abass period, depleting all of East Armenia, and called in tatars and Kurds... they do taste the results, with us, till now...

In their grate experience and background, they may understand this better, than "our" illetrate , corrupted, oligarkh/mafiosis....

[Vahram]

Re: Agriculture

“Armenia can export 2-3 million sheep to Iran each year,”

$150 USD per sheep, times 3 million sheep = 450 million USD a year * 15 years = 6.75 Billion USD.

Sadly if you wanted to count in AMD the price is in the Trillions.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Agriculture

I do see the economic sense in this, but having odars walking on Armenian land is less palatable to me. The choice in my view is very clear, either we stay out of this deal and loose billions of revenue to land that is not being utilized as is. Or we go ahead with this and gulp it. Security at this point in time is not an issue as this is a lease, and not sure from Iran's statement that toorks are coming over to shepherd the animals.

With money we can solve a lot of problems, without money we have to make though choices. The fantasy that we can just do what we want is just that a fantasy. Armenia of old never had this much bare rock, this is something we do need to consider, however if the lands in question are grasslands already then I don't see the great loss in loosing some grass. There has to be a huge amount of economic activity in place before we make decisions on what is and what is not worth doing. At this stage we have a choice to make to do this now and reap the rewards for 15 years and then look back and reflect on the choice. Sadly for more then a 1000 years toorks with their goats/sheep have been terrorizing the land of Armenia down to bare rock. If we magically decide that our environment is getting too burdened by this then we really have to start weeping again as the bulk of the damage has been done already.

Given that I said all this, it still pains me either way, too bad we are not in a better position to do otherwise. Just look at us, we are discussing filthy animals that smell.

Vahram,
Where do you get your billions?
In what currency, AMD?
What's the price of sheep? how many are we talking about? and what's the amount we will receive?
The total according to Liska's deal is 2.5 million USD a year, at the end of the period.
In the beging, there are reductions planned.....

[Vahram]

Re: Agriculture

I'd like to see some thoughts/opinions on Armenia leasing some land in Syunik to Iran for sheep grazing. Meanwhile, here are Iran's arguments.

I do see the economic sense in this, but having odars walking on Armenian land is less palatable to me. The choice in my view is very clear, either we stay out of this deal and loose billions of revenue to land that is not being utilized as is. Or we go ahead with this and gulp it. Security at this point in time is not an issue as this is a lease, and not sure from Iran's statement that toorks are coming over to shepherd the animals.

With money we can solve a lot of problems, without money we have to make though choices. The fantasy that we can just do what we want is just that a fantasy. Armenia of old never had this much bare rock, this is something we do need to consider, however if the lands in question are grasslands already then I don't see the great loss in loosing some grass. There has to be a huge amount of economic activity in place before we make decisions on what is and what is not worth doing. At this stage we have a choice to make to do this now and reap the rewards for 15 years and then look back and reflect on the choice. Sadly for more then a 1000 years toorks with their goats/sheep have been terrorizing the land of Armenia down to bare rock. If we magically decide that our environment is getting too burdened by this then we really have to start weeping again as the bulk of the damage has been done already.

Given that I said all this, it still pains me either way, too bad we are not in a better position to do otherwise. Just look at us, we are discussing filthy animals that smell.