Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

[Armenian]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

Maybe the only good point about Sarkozy is that he is a nightmare for Turks but on the other hand, he needs to moderate his anti-Putin and anti-Iran stance.

Bravo Lucin. In my opinion, those Armenians who are applauding Sarkozy's win in France are being somewhat shortsighted and naive.

Sarkozy's J-e-w-ish roots shape his outlook on life and his approach to politics. His seems to be very fond of the criminal "Neoconservative" Kabal running the show in Washington DC. His anti-Russian anti-Iranian sentiments are quite pronounced. There is also a danger that he might drag France into the bogus "War on Terror" as well. As a result, his political rhetoric and his foreign policy formulations may in the longterm be harmful to Armenia's interests.

So, don't be surprised if in the future Sarkozy "moderates" his anti-Turkish stance instead. Sarkozy or no Sarkozy, Turks would have never been admitted into Europe. Thus, in the big picture, Sarkoz'y win is a potential setback for European politics, not to mention Russian-Iranian-Armenian interests.

I hope I'm wrong. I guess only time will tell.

[exfo]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

Who's "we"? You are speaking on behalf of every single person in Turkey?

This is the last EU survey. %70 of Turkey population do not want to enter EU and %85 do not care about EU.

[exfo]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

Maybe the only good point about Sarkozy is that he is a nightmare for Turks but on the other hand, he needs to moderate his anti-Putin and anti-Iran stance.

Lucin, you still could not get the point. WE DONT CARE SARKOZY OR EU, Capish? You can not feed at Iran good? Do you want me to send you some vitamins?

[Lucin]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

Maybe the only good point about Sarkozy is that he is a nightmare for Turks but on the other hand, he needs to moderate his anti-Putin and anti-Iran stance.

[TomServo]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

Siamanotthing, unlike you, we do not consider ourselves as European

Who's "we"? You are speaking on behalf of every single person in Turkey?

[exfo]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

With the election of Sarkozy as the next French president, I would consider the hopes of TEMPORARILY SO CALLED Turkey to join the EU almost vaporized or severely compromized.
Though he was not my candidate, he was the best for Armenian interests and, simultaneously, the worse for *urkish interests. For instance, three days ago, during the Presidential Debate, he insisted - on many occasions - that the future French president should clearly say to the *urks that they simply don't belong to Europe and there is no need to pursue with the discussions.
He is very close to Patrick Devedjian - one of his main advisers - who is an active member of the Armenian Community.


Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk," "*urkish" or *urkic" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations

Siamanotthing, unlike you, we do not consider ourselves as European and %70 of Turkey do not want to your racist Europe anymore. You can keep continue to flatter Europeans to have their symphaty, but this is not valid for us. It is very simple for us. If EU will give us money then I welcome EU, if no money no EU. You may have some emotional problems about your identity. When you look to a mirror you may see an Armenian, a Turk, a European, an Asian or only a middle eastern face girl or whatever, but, nobody care with you or Deveciyan or Sarkozy or any other racist. Just try to understand this. Actually my idea, do not care with Turks that much. Relax, take it easy. Take your pills.

[Էլիա]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

Մի՛ մտահոգուիք: Բնաւ կարելիութիւն չի կայ՝ Թուրքիոյ ընդունելութեան Եւրոպայի մէջ: Ինչպէ՞ս կ'ընդունուի Թուրքիան եթէ իր «ըսուած ազգը» գոյութիւն չ'ունի: Ի՞նչ թուրքեր: Իրականութիւնը՝ ամէն «թուրքերը» խառնուած են յոյներու, պարսիկներու, եւ ուրիշ արեւմտեան ասիական ազգերու հետ:

[Siamanto]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

With the election of Sarkozy as the next French president, I would consider the hopes of TEMPORARILY SO CALLED Turkey to join the EU almost vaporized or severely compromized.
Though he was not my candidate, he was the best for Armenian interests and, simultaneously, the worse for *urkish interests. For instance, three days ago, during the Presidential Debate, he insisted - on many occasions - that the future French president should clearly say to the *urks that they simply don't belong to Europe and there is no need to pursue with the discussions.
He is very close to Patrick Devedjian - one of his main advisers - who is an active member of the Armenian Community.


Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk," "*urkish" or *urkic" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations

[Armenian]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

Turkish Court Blocks Islamic Candidate



Turkish expert: “Turkey is like a transvestite. The spirit and the body are in conflict.”

ANKARA, Turkey, May 1 — Turkey’s highest court on Tuesday blocked a presidential candidate with a background in Islamic politics, pitching the country into early elections and a referendum on the role of religion in its future. In a 9-to-2 ruling, the court upheld an appeal by Turkey’s main secular political party, which sought to block Abdullah Gul, a close ally of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, from becoming president, objecting to what they said were his Islamic credentials.

But Mr. Gul, an observant Muslim who is Turkey’s foreign minister, has kept Islam out of public policy in his four years in government, and his supporters said the decision was simply an attempt to hold on to power by Turkey’s secular elite, which has controlled the state since Ataturk’s revolution in 1923. Turkey is an important American ally and its stability is seen as crucial in a troubled region. It shares borders with Iran, Iraq and Syria. It is a member of NATO and has good relations with Israel. It has also been critical for the American military in Iraq, providing an air base in the south of the country that supplies much of northern and central Iraq.

In the ruling, the court annulled a vote for Mr. Gul held in Parliament on Friday because there were not enough lawmakers present. Secular parties boycotted the vote. But the ruling was more political than legal, his supporters charged. Previous presidents have been elected with fewer lawmakers present in the first round of voting. The court, they argue, reflects the interests of a secular establishment that is now mounting an assault against Mr. Erdogan and the emerging class of religious Turks that he represents.

The court “is a product of the military coup in 1960,” said Eser Karakas, a professor at Bahcesehir University in Istanbul. The court was formed after the coup to interpret the Constitution, which enshrines secularism at the heart of the state. In remarks broadcast Tuesday, Mr. Erdogan said his party would press for early elections in late June or early July. Parliament must vote to begin elections, but the measure is supported by parties across the political spectrum and is expected to pass.

He also made what is likely to be a highly controversial proposal that would take the presidential selection process out of the hands of Parliament altogether and place it in a popular vote, which he would like to see happen soon, but which is unlikely to affect the current election. Turkey is a parliamentary system, and Turks vote for parties, which then form governments based on their allotment in Parliament. Currently the president, Turkey’s highest-ranking secular official, is elected by Parliament. The president commands the military, vetoes legislation and appoints judges. “There is nowhere more beautiful than the ballot box for criticism,” Mr. Erdogan said.

“In order to free ourselves from this blockage,” he continued, “the only place to go is to the nation that indisputably owns sovereignty.”

Mr. Erdogan’s confidence springs from the vast network that his party, known by its Turkish initials AK, has established in the grass roots of Turkish society. He represents the conservative heartland, which for years had been on the periphery but now is moving into the mainstream, since its constituents migrated in vast numbers to the cities and were elevated by an economic boom. Some analysts expected him to come out even stronger in early elections. His party currently holds 351 seats in the 550-member Parliament.

The open question on Tuesday night was what action, if any, Turkey’s powerful military would take. The military sees itself as the defender of Ataturk’s secular legacy and has ousted four elected governments since 1960. It issued a sharp warning to the government on Friday night that it would intervene if Mr. Erdogan strayed too far from the secularism that is the backbone of the state. Turkish political analysts said Tuesday that the military was unlikely to intervene for now, thinking it had won a victory with the court decision. But some said the secular parties seem to be overestimating their popularity. Mr. Gul, 56, an English speaker who has led Turkey’s push to join the European Union, tried to allay Turkish fears on Tuesday.

“If I had had a secret agenda as claimed, if those concerns were truly a part of my secret agenda, the European Union membership could not have been my policy,” he said. Then, in a conciliatory tone unusual for members of his party, who ordinarily dismiss secular concerns as old-fashioned and unreasonable, Mr. Gul added, “But if there are concerns as such, we need to work together to understand and correct them.”

Heightening the tension was the arrest of more than 500 protestors, who were marching in an unauthorized May Day rally unrelated to the current political impasse. Television networks broadcast images of police officers in riot gear beating demonstrators and spraying them with pepper gas. The Turkish stock market continued its fall, and Mr. Erdogan made public remarks to restore faith in it. His supporters deplored the court’s decision as unfair.

“In the last four years I’ve been going around Europe saying that Turkey has made all these reforms and it is a democratic place,” said Egemen Bagis, an adviser to Mr. Erdogan and a lawmaker. “Now I don’t know what to tell them. Turkey doesn’t deserve this.”

Deniz Baykal, the leader of the secular Republican People’s Party, which appealed to the court, hailed its action. “From now on, no party has the chance to dictate a president,” he said on national television. The verdict “will claim its place in legal history as highly respectable and important.”

The changes in Turkish society have raised concerns among secular Turks that their lifestyles will not be respected once the rank and file of Mr. Erdogan’s party settle deeper into state institutions. That worry drew hundreds of thousands of secular protesters onto the streets here and in Istanbul last month.

“I’m very worried about the future of society,” said Asli Aydintasbas, Ankara bureau chief for Sabah, a daily newspaper. “I’ve never seen such an emotional debate. It’s so polarized.”

Hakan Yavuz, an expert in Turkish religion and politics at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, used a colorful metaphor: “Turkey is like a transvestite. The spirit and the body are in conflict.”

In four years of power, Mr. Erdogan failed to build bridges to the secular community, Mr. Yavuz said, and vastly underestimated the depth of secular concerns. Mr. Gul on Tuesday tried to assuage those concerns.

“I, consciously or unconsciously, might have made mistakes,” he said. “Has it never happened to you? The important thing is to be able to notice these mistakes, correct and direct them into a better direction.”

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/02/wo.../02turkey.html

[Aurathen]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

My friend Norserunt you don't know anything about Hrant Dink and his accomplishments. You were against him for telling the truth? (Sure that is not in you best interest at all). Before you start typing those frustrating words watch his funeral in the Tv. See how the Turks condemn this trachery