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  • Armenian
    replied
    Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

    Sarkozy Elects Top Diplomat: A Pro-Turkish J-e-w Who Fully Supports the Illegal War Being Waged by Neocons in Iraq and Afghanistan

    To thank the blind idiots in the Armenian community who were kissing his ass for a long time the newly elected French president just appointed a strongly pro-Turkish J-e-w as Foreign Minister of France.

    Time will only tell how damaging this election was for Western Europe.

    These strange turn of events in Paris also makes me wonder the following: it is well known that the riots that occurred in France during the past couple of years essentially helped Sarkozy win this election. THus, I ask: Were these riots incited by the authorities (lead by Sarkozy of course) for this very purpose, namely to help elect the current leadership.

    Nonetheless, the current Neocon friendly leadership has boldly emerged within the very heartland of Europe - especially at a time when Europe is desperately trying to define itself and set the foundations of its future?

    This Kouchner garbage supposedly became a "humanitarian" as a result of what happened to his relatives in Auschwitz. Nevertheless, this so-called humanitarian fully supports the illegal wars currently being waged by his Washington DC based Neocon ideologues. Needless to say, as a result of the Kouchners of this world, Iraq today is the epicenter of one of the bloodiest man-made humanitarian disasters in the world. This Kouchner character also wants to increase France's role in Afghanistan conflict, clearly signaling that he would willing join the bogus "war on terror" circus orchestrated by Neocons. And last but not least, this so-called humanitarian also considers the state of Turkey to be fully worthy of being called a European nation, of course this is most probably due to Turkey's exemplary "humanitarian" record that which the humanitarian Kouchner seems to champion.

    I never expected this type of a situation occurring within France, especially at a very crucial time period such at this. Even from the start, however, I somehow felt uneasy about this Sarkozy character. And I could not understand how shallow and shortsighted his Armenian supporters were being. I fear that this new political environment within Paris will in the longterm prove harmful to Armenian national interests and to the national interests of Armenia's closest regional partners, Russia and Iran.

    Therefore, let's not be surprised if in the near future Sarkozy "moderates" his anti-Turkish stance. Let's not be surprised if Paris begins to actively support the attacks against Russia and Iran by Washington DC, Tel Aviv and London. And let's not be surprised if Paris willingly enters the greater Neocon agenda.

    Armenian



    Sarkozy’s Top Diplomat: Undiplomatic Opposite

    BERNARD KOUCHNER, France’s new top diplomat, would never describe himself as diplomatic. Named as foreign minister, Mr. Kouchner is in many ways the political opposite of his new boss, President Nicolas Sarkozy. Both are pro-American, but Mr. Sarkozy is conservative while Mr. Kouchner is a man of the left. Mr. Sarkozy opposed the American invasion of Iraq, while Mr. Kouchner, unlike most of the political elite on both the right and the left here, believed that military intervention was justified to overthrow Saddam Hussein. Mr. Sarkozy opposes Turkey’s entry into the European Union; Mr. Kouchner supports it.

    “It’s an amazing appointment, a stunning event in French foreign policy,” said Richard C. Holbrooke, the former American ambassador to the United Nations and one of Mr. Kouchner’s closest friends. “He’s motivated by an antitotalitarian drive, whether he sees injustice from the left or the right. It will be very positive for U.S.-French relations because he does not come with a visceral anger towards the American ‘hyperpower.’ ”

    Mr. Kouchner, a 67-year-old gastroenterologist, earned his reputation as the star of humanitarian relief by challenging authority, destroying convention, insulting opponents and making up rules along the way. “To change the law, you sometimes have to break the law,” he likes to say. “An unguided missile,” is how Boutros Boutros-Ghali, the former United Nations secretary general, once described him. But Mr. Kouchner, who has served as France’s health minister and the United Nations’ administrator for Kosovo, has also been the country’s most popular politician on the left over the years.

    Elegant, dapper, with movie-star looks despite his age, Mr. Kouchner is half of one of France’s leading power couples. His longtime partner, Christine Ockrent, is probably France’s best-known female television journalist. They entertain regularly from their grand duplex apartment overlooking the Luxembourg Garden; they always get the best restaurant tables. They have been tarred by their critics with the label “gauche caviar,” Champagne-and-caviar socialism at its worst. Mr. Kouchner intimately addresses women — and men — as “my dear.” His passion and confidence in speaking English help compensate for his charming but sometimes excruciating mistakes.

    By naming him and three other leftists to his conservative government, Mr. Sarkozy fulfilled his promise that his tenure would be one of “openness,” while stripping the Socialist Party of one of its icons just weeks before French voters choose an entirely new Parliament. (Accepting the job of foreign minister got him drummed out of the Socialist Party on Friday.) Mr. Sarkozy is also signaling that he is serious about putting both human rights and outreach to the United States at the core of his foreign policy. Mr. Kouchner is as close as a Frenchman comes to being pro-American.

    EVEN Mr. Kouchner, a co-founder of the Nobel Prize-winning relief organization Doctors Without Borders, appreciates the novelty of his appointment. “This is a bit unusual,” he confessed Friday in his first remarks at the Foreign Ministry. He added that he “would not have done it” had he not felt the conviction “to serve our country.”

    Contrary to long-held Gaullist French policy, which evaluates crises through the lens of France’s national interests, Mr. Kouchner sees things through a humanitarian perspective. He was an effective early advocate of “humanitarian intervention” — the right to interfere in another country’s affairs if human rights are being abused.

    Mr. Kouchner defended military intervention against Mr. Hussein on humanitarian grounds, not because Iraq might be seeking unconventional weapons. “It was a question of overthrowing an evil dictator, and it was right to intervene,” Mr. Kouchner said in 2004.

    He has said that Turkey is part of Europe and deserves to join the European Union; Mr. Sarkozy has said that Turkey is part of Asia, not Europe, and should never become a member.

    Mr. Kouchner appears to support the maintenance of a strong international — and French — presence in Afghanistan to bring stability to the country; Mr. Sarkozy has promised that French troops will not stay there forever.

    “On Turkey, the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan, the third world and Africa, we’re not close,” Mr. Kouchner acknowledged in a telephone interview. “I’m against his idea of selective immigration. On other issues — the Middle East, on the need for an alliance with America, on the role of France in Europe — we’re very close.”

    But it is no secret that Mr. Kouchner has been restless to get back onto the global stage in a starring role, particularly after he was passed over for the job of director of the World Health Organization and as the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. He said he turned down the chance to head a new Ministry of Immigration and National Identity when Mr. Sarkozy floated the idea earlier this year. “I refused completely because I am against this idea,” Mr. Kouchner said in the interview.

    CHARMING, outspoken, impulsive and at times egotistical, Mr. Kouchner even once thought of running for president himself. Asked in an interview in 2004 whether anyone could beat Mr. Sarkozy, he replied in English, “Me, I believe.” He added, “I am not so arrogant to say I’m serious, but I’m more popular than he is!”

    But like his new boss, Mr. Kouchner is hard-charging, impatient, abrasive, media-shrewd and immune to verbal attack. “I have no recipe except one in politics: to continue, to continue, to be obstinate, to be obstinate, to never abandon an issue as long as there remains a small shred of hope,” he said. During the political campaign, the Socialist presidential candidate, Ségolène Royal, largely ignored Mr. Kouchner, but Mr. Sarkozy did not. The two men talked regularly, even though Mr. Kouchner openly criticized the candidate. At one point, he called Mr. Sarkozy a “man who feels no shame,” for his courting of the extreme right. When Mr. Sarkozy said that pedophilia was most likely a genetic flaw, Mr. Kouchner said the statement was “extraordinarily dangerous, entirely irresponsible.”

    Mr. Kouchner has always dismissed criticism that his publicity-grabbing techniques can be both unseemly and laughable. In the early 1990s, for example, when he was filmed wading ashore in Somalia carrying sacks of rice provided by French schoolchildren for the starving, he justified the stunt, saying, “I prefer cameras to bazookas.”

    BOTH Mr. Sarkozy and Mr. Kouchner in a sense are outsiders. Mr. Sarkozy, who is 15 years his junior, is the son of a Hungarian immigrant; one of his grandparents was xxxish. Mr. Kouchner’s paternal grandparents were Russian-born xxxs who escaped the pogroms by emigrating to France, but perished decades later in Auschwitz. He has said that their deaths contributed to his passion for intervention in humanitarian crises and the promotion of human rights.

    “I can’t stand the fact that a man is assassinated, that a woman is abused, that a child is beaten up,” he wrote in his 1995 memoir, “What I Believe.”

    “Why am I getting indignant? My grandparents died in Auschwitz, and for years no one dared or wanted to tell me. I found out.” He continued: “In a mixed family that is not religious it is even worse: you are either twice as xxxish, or half xxxish. As a result, you react like a tormented soul in the face of oppression.”


    Longtime friends of Mr. Kouchner are delighted for him, but worried that his blunt-speaking, off-the-cuff style may clash with that of his new boss. “Sarkozy’s views are totally different from those of Bernard,” said Max Recamier, one of the doctors with whom Mr. Kouchner founded Doctors Without Borders. “He hesitated a lot before accepting. But what drives him is not a hunger for power but a passion for promoting justice and easing suffering in the world. And let’s face it, he’s 67 now. He’s mellowed — like a good wine.”

    Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/19/wo...9kouchner.html

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  • Siamanto
    replied
    Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

    Originally posted by TomServo View Post
    Patrick Devedjian for President! It could happen.
    I don't agree with his political views but he's very agile - i.e. mentally - and manages to skillfully and with calm find arguments to defend his positions - or the positions of his party. He's also quick. He is a "smart" politician.

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  • TomServo
    replied
    Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

    Patrick Devedjian for President! It could happen.

    Leave a comment:


  • Siamanto
    replied
    Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

    Originally posted by Armenian View Post
    Sarkozy's J-e-w-ish roots shape his outlook on life and his approach to politics.
    LOL You remind me of the *urkish media who wrote that he had *urkish/Greek roots or something like that.
    His maternal Grandfather is a j-e-w from Salonique who converted to Catholicism. As we are sharing trivia, let's also remember that his family became "noble" after his ancestor courageouly fought the *urks in Hungary.
    He's close to his Hungarian roots and your statement sounds a bit...





    Originally posted by Armenian View Post
    His seems to be very fond of the criminal "Neoconservative" Kabal running the show in Washington DC. His anti-Russian anti-Iranian sentiments are quite pronounced. There is also a danger that he might drag France into the bogus "War on Terror" as well. As a result, his political rhetoric and his foreign policy formulations may in the longterm be harmful to Armenia's interests.

    So, don't be surprised if in the future Sarkozy "moderates" his anti-Turkish stance instead. Sarkozy or no Sarkozy, Turks would have never been admitted into Europe. Thus, in the big picture, Sarkoz'y win is a potential setback for European politics, not to mention Russian-Iranian-Armenian interests.

    I hope I'm wrong. I guess only time will tell.
    You may be wrong and I think that you are overreacting. I may be wrong, but my reply to Lucin did probably cover the above.

    I will simply add that Segolene Royal - who was my candidate - was NOT less anti-Iranian; she was less anti-Turk but more pro-Russian.
    As for the European policy towards Russia, I don't think that Sarkozy will have a great influence....would Merkel-Royal have been a better combination? Not obvious.


    Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk," "*urkish" or *urkic" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations

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  • Siamanto
    replied
    Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

    Originally posted by Lucin View Post
    Maybe the only good point about Sarkozy is that he is a nightmare for Turks but on the other hand, he needs to moderate his anti-Putin and anti-Iran stance.
    LOL Most of all, he needs to moderate his anti-humanity stance. He scares me, he scares a lot of people. He belongs to the Berlusconi, Blair, Bush family but, I hope that his new role will calm him down. For the record, Chirac - his mentor - who also scared us, calmed down after he became president. Also, his career is quite similar to that of Chirac.
    I think that Sarkozy may make a lot of stupid - and "dangerous" - decisions unless the Socialists and the to-be-formed??? party of Bayrou do well enough during the coming legislative elections to contain Sarkozy.
    Also, keep in mind that there will be a lot of constraints that may temper or contain him.





    Originally posted by Lucin View Post
    kani vor yerek nayum ei ir hartsazruyst@ anmijabes
    nakhagah haytararveluts heto, arajin khntirnerits mek@ vor knnarkets franco-amerikyan harberutyunneri barelavumn er, vor@ hakasakan e tvum ( im achkis) ir ujegh haka-trkakan dirkoroshumneri het. Havanakan e vor da chezokatsvi apagayum (inchpes n’shetsir).
    He's not know to be pro-Anglo-Saxon and did not wait to win the elections. In fact, not long ago, while officially visiting the White House, he criticized the French foreign policy in Iraq when only the French president is supposed make a public statement on the subject.
    However, I don't think that it will have a noticeable impact - if any - on his anti-*urkish stance; let's keep in mind that he will have to take into consideration internal politics and the US have more important priorities and bigger fish to fry than *urks and will probably avoid any friction on the subject. This is politics and let's be realistic.




    Originally posted by Lucin View Post
    Franciakan kaghakakanutyun@ hatkapas verjin tarinerin, vorosh havsarakshrutyun er steghtsel, 'chezokatsnelov' anglo-hrya azdararutynner@...
    That's my biggest fear. Again, let's keep in mind that he will not be operating in a vacuum and any abrupt discontinuity in French foreign policy may cause him a lot of headache. He will have to respect certain constraints and limits.





    Originally posted by Lucin View Post
    Bayts,havastiatsats em vor Sarkozy-in nerkin bart khntirneri e handipelu, hatkapes 5 million arabneri het bakhumner teghi kunena ( inchpes antsyalum vor nerkin gortseri nakharar er)…
    Many may go to the streets protesting....not only the Arabs. He scares a lot of people. Let's hope that he will be contained.

    By the way, there has already been two street protests - yesterday night and tonight - and clashes with the police.





    Originally posted by Lucin View Post
    Ankakh ir dirkoroshumnerits, Sarkozy-in nakhagahi dirk u shnork chuni (artakin@, khosalu voj@ yev sharjumner@ nkati unem), yerkrort bush e darnalu...
    Yes, he is quite vulgar and ungraceful and many compared him to Bush....But he may not be allowed to turn into Bush because he will be operating in a different society - French - and within different structures - France/Europe - and different political partners.
    Furthermore, the times are changing and the Berlusconi, Blair, Bush legacy is fading away.




    Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk," "*urkish" or *urkic" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations
    Last edited by Siamanto; 05-07-2007, 06:45 PM.

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  • Էլիա
    replied
    Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

    Either way, the EU wouldn't accept Turkey because of its bad government and atrocities. :P

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  • Siamanto
    replied
    Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

    Originally posted by exfo View Post
    Siamanotthing, unlike you, we do not consider ourselves as European and %70 of Turkey do not want to your racist Europe anymore. You can keep continue to flatter Europeans to have their symphaty, but this is not valid for us. It is very simple for us.
    The above sounds, at best, laughable considering that TEMPORARILY SO CALLED Turkey has been desperately begging for some recognition as a nation belonging to Europe - as if in need for affection, as if it translates a deep insecurity - while Europe constantly humiliated you, rejected you, ignored you, did "spit on your face" and consoled you with crumbs that helped you survive. But beggars like you are not proud.
    I wonder why you did your best to look like docile and good students, during the last years? I wonder why Erdogan already expressed his concern today??? Of course, It's probably you don't care???
    It's not that you don't care, it's that you don't have the choice.





    Originally posted by exfo View Post
    It is very simple for us. If EU will give us money then I welcome EU, if no money no EU.
    Of course, you are a nation of thieves, parasites and beggars.





    Originally posted by exfo View Post
    You may have some emotional problems about your identity. When you look to a mirror you may see an Armenian, a Turk, a European, an Asian or only a middle eastern face girl or whatever, but, nobody care with you or Deveciyan or Sarkozy or any other racist. Just try to understand this. Actually my idea, do not care with Turks that much. Relax, take it easy. Take your pills.
    Shouldn't you always "edulcorate" a post with jurkish cacophony?





    Originally posted by exfo View Post
    This is the last EU survey. %70 of Turkey population do not want to enter EU and %85 do not care about EU.
    Yet you continue to beg for an identity and the crumbs thrown at you. Yet you continue to dance to Europe's' tune and play the docile and good pupil. I guess that's the Central Asian beggar instinct!!!
    Last edited by Siamanto; 05-07-2007, 04:48 PM.

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  • Siamanto
    replied
    Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

    Originally posted by Էլիա View Post
    Մի՛ մտահոգուիք: Բնաւ կարելիութիւն չի կայ՝ Թուրքիոյ ընդունելութեան Եւրոպայի մէջ: Ինչպէ՞ս կ'ընդունուի Թուրքիան եթէ իր «ըսուած ազգը» գոյութիւն չ'ունի: Ի՞նչ թուրքեր: Իրականութիւնը՝ ամէն «թուրքերը» խառնուած են յոյներու, պարսիկներու, եւ ուրիշ արեւմտեան ասիական ազգերու հետ:
    I never thought that TEMPORARILY SO CALLED Turkey would be part of the EU; but, in politics, there is no "Բնաւ."

    It is true that I did not make it explicit enough, but it was less about their chances - i.e. reality and/or EU perspective - and more about their hopes - the *urkish perspective. Will Sarkozy make a blunt statement -and he's capable - soon enough to have a relative impact on the anticipated elections in TEMPORARILY SO CALLED Turkey - i.e. more *urks will throw the sponge - after fuming, as they usually do - and vote for the AKP?
    I'd rather see that artificially created country shift towards Islam than Europe. It is true that it may, for some time, adversely affect the already precarious stability of the region but it seems as a precondition for the implosion - and dismantlement - of TEMPORARILY SO CALLED Turkey.



    Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk," "*urkish" or *urkic" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations

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  • garod
    replied
    Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

    I think Sarkozy will try to remove 68s spirit with neo liberal politics and face off big protests.Try to restrict strikes and solve the immigrant problems with tough politics and laws will cause big protests and he will have to be calm.On the other hand his views regarding Turkey brang warnings as of today for example Jose Manuel Barroso declared.There are lots of French company in Turkey and they will take his fever according to liberal ecenomy's necessities (For example Renault who will produce a new model in the factory which is located in Turkey and export the nearly 150 countries in the world.)

    I am sure his chauvinist attitudes will force Turkey in good way.People will make most of things in the short time for shutting up his mouth so welcome to the Pyscho.

    The comment that I read yesterday is so nice "A man who cannot manage his wife how can manage France". Ahahahah
    Last edited by garod; 05-07-2007, 11:30 AM.

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  • Lucin
    replied
    Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

    Originally posted by Armenian View Post
    Bravo Lucin. In my opinion, those Armenians who are applauding Sarkozy's win in France are being somewhat shortsighted and naive.

    Sarkozy's J-e-w-ish roots shape his outlook on life and his approach to politics. His seems to be very fond of the criminal "Neoconservative" Kabal running the show in Washington DC. His anti-Russian anti-Iranian sentiments are quite pronounced. There is also a danger that he might drag France into the bogus "War on Terror" as well. As a result, his political rhetoric and his foreign policy formulations may in the longterm be harmful to Armenia's interests.

    So, don't be surprised if in the future Sarkozy "moderates" his anti-Turkish stance instead. Sarkozy or no Sarkozy, Turks would have never been admitted into Europe. Thus, in the big picture, Sarkoz'y win is a potential setback for European politics, not to mention Russian-Iranian-Armenian interests.

    I hope I'm wrong. I guess only time will tell.

    Chem Kartsum s’khalves, herates, havasarakhrvats motetsum unes. ( nakhagahakan teknatsu lines kez em @ntrelu, paymanov vor nakharar linem ) kani vor yerek nayum ei ir hartsazruyst@ anmijabes
    nakhagah haytararveluts heto, arajin khntirnerits mek@ vor knnarkets franco-amerikyan harberutyunneri barelavumn er, vor@ hakasakan e tvum ( im achkis) ir ujegh haka-trkakan dirkoroshumneri het. Havanakan e vor da chezokatsvi apagayum (inchpes n’shetsir).
    Franciakan kaghakakanutyun@ hatkapas verjin tarinerin, vorosh havsarakshrutyun er steghtsel, 'chezokatsnelov' anglo-hrya azdararutynner@...

    Bayts,havastiatsats em vor Sarkozy-in nerkin bart khntirneri e handipelu, hatkapes 5 million arabneri het bakhumner teghi kunena ( inchpes antsyalum vor nerkin gortseri nakharar er)…

    Ankakh ir dirkoroshumnerits, Sarkozy-in nakhagahi dirk u shnork chuni (artakin@, khosalu voj@ yev sharjumner@ nkati unem), yerkrort bush e darnalu...
    Last edited by Lucin; 05-07-2007, 09:27 AM.

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