Is Turkey Going Islamist?

[Otto]

so if we say something like that is it gonna sound too stupid?

first jews find themselves a country in need of money or having hard times wars etc... then they insert themselves ( or accepted by them when host country sees the color of the money) in this country and finds the nationalists... they provoke them like saying " oh you are great.. you can do this come on Rocky".. and then they make those inflated nationalist to move the obstacles from the road for jews...

1.ottoman empire - Armenians
2.Germany - half breed jews (it is just a rumor i dont know exactly but i heard jews who are killed in ww2 were all half breed jews... i admit it sounds crap)
3.USA - Arabs

after they are finished they leave their host nation in ruins and facing genocide accusations..

maybe 50 years later US will have to face Arabian massacre.....

ps: pls dont comment if it sounds too ridiculous

[bell-the-cat]

is this a logically consistent statement?

I am always logical and consistent.

[Anonymouse]

I made this post in another place.

Modern Turkey as founded by Mustafa Kemal is a grand example of how far myth making and nationalism go, and often leading to the destruction of others in order to establish your own nation-state. The "grandeur" that is the Turkish Republic is not what it seems. From afar it may seem like a 'successful democracy', but upon closer examination it is a big web of contradictions. It's pending status to join the EU is nothing more than political mood swings on behalf of both parties. Notions of Turkish "democracy" are simply a pipe dream within a pipe dream. It's "secular" nature is held by a thread. If Istanbul is the most "European" in its effrontery, other parts of Turkey still thinks they live in an Islamic state.

The notions of Turkish "democracy" are a myth for many reasons, not the least of which involves laws against those who mention genocide. For if truth is on your side, why must there be laws to criminalize those who dare question conventional wisdom? In Europe, there are laws in place to fine, persecute, and jail people who question the veracity of the Holocaust. Europeans self consciously pass themselves off as "democracies", yet free speech is not allowed. Turkey calls itself a democracy yet free speech is not allowed. You will find that they have more in common than they think.

Often times, we hear arguments in favor for the "success" of the Turkish nation-state in its ability to adopt democracy. This viewpoint rests on faulty assumptions such as Mustafa Kemal had popular support in a war of national liberation. It has become the mythologized event by which Turks see themselves. And ever since there has been a Turkish cult of personality which has developed around Mustafa Kemal. So the supposed success of modern Turkish "democracy" is that Ataturk established a state where non had existed before. Contrary to the Ottoman Empire, this new state limited itself to the Anatolian peninsula and had no imperial rule. It's people redefined themselves as Turks and Turkish citizens, as opposed to Ottomans or Ottoman citizens.

Mustafa Kemal abolished Islamic courts, the caliphate, and other religious endowments, and established turkey as a 'secular' state in which private beliefs were tolerated. However, this notion of secularism and democracy is misleading. The treatment of Kurds in its country has been a taint on the Turkish government. Furthermore, in 1950 the Democratic Party surrounded itself in Islamic imagery. In 2002, the Justice and Development Party, which has Islamic roots, won two thirds of the seats in parliament. The other notion that Kemal had popular support is unfounded. In fact, from its inception of the war for "national liberation" it has had opposition, both from Turks and non Turks. Turks, because many of them didn't want to abandon Islamic roots; non-Turks because, well let's face it, non-Turks and Turks have no love lost between them.

So because Mustafa Kemal's efforts to make modern Turkey into a "democratic" and "secular" state met with opposition, it has been enforced and maintained by repression and so Turkish democracy works until it doesnt, which is why the Turkish military took emergency powers in 1960, 1971, 1980, and recently in 1997. So roughly every 10 years or so, the Turkish military has to purge certain elements to maintain its secular image, a precedent no doubt established by the founder Mustafa Kemal. Oh joy to Turkish democracy and its ascension into the EU, may they have many parties celebrating their contradictions.

[Otto]

i think you should give us time to establish democracy because people one day woke up and found themselves in a democratic nation back in 1923. people had no idea of democracy (still dont) only Atatürk did and ordered us to be democratic... it is because we are afraid of everything and see everything as a threat ( songs in kurdish etc) and forget about democracy instantly...we are more like national socialists i guess

[Anonymouse]

What is the point of proclaiming yourself, internationally, as a "democracy", if you must be forced to be "democratic." It's not much of a democracy if it has to be forced.

Granted, I do not like democracy, and it is entirely overrated, I do, however, see a lack of it in your country. Turkey is a democracy in rhetoric.

[winoman]

i think you should give us time to establish democracy because people one day woke up and found themselves in a democratic nation back in 1923. people had no idea of democracy (still dont) only Atatürk did and ordered us to be democratic... it is because we are afraid of everything and see everything as a threat ( songs in kurdish etc) and forget about democracy instantly...we are more like national socialists i guess

Actually - while Ataturk was certainly a visioniary and did much to propel Turkey into the modern world - leaving a legacy of true democracy was not one of his accomplichments. Ataturk was an autocrat who believed in a one party state. Its funny that he actually established and appointed the memberships of several successive opposition parties with the pretense of multi-party democracy when in fact they were just puppet opposition parties. He ruled with an iron hand and he felt that Turkey should always be ruled thus. This the continuing legacy of the MGK (Turkey's ruling oligarchy) which in fact actually rules Turkey behind the scenes (do you know that the MGK actually has a staff of some 20,000+ employees - what is it that they do one might wonder....) while the publicly elected government mearly takes from the till and enriches their own and makes sure to act only in the narrow confines of what the MGK allows - on fear of their banishment.

[Thai-Samurai]

oh well sounds like the whole world is xxxxed up

[Otto]

oh well sounds like the whole world is xxxxed up

i believe this " ignorance is bliss " thing more and more...

[Red Brigade]

If ignorance is bliss, how come most people aren’t happy?

[Anonymouse]

If ignorance is bliss, how come most people aren’t happy?

Had do you know that? Have you spoken to "most people"? Are you psychic? I know it's part of being a communist, but please don't claim to speak for everyone.