Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

    As the West wets its pants...

    Russian military gets stronger



    NEAR GORI, GEORGIA - AUGUST 13: Russian soldiers sit atop an armored vehicle in a long column of military hardware advancing past Gori August 13, 2008 near Gori, Georgia. A Russian military column, along with an assortment of paramilitary forces allied with them, penetrated further into Georgian territory August 13.

    Russia's first foreign war since Soviet troops stormed into Afghanistan nearly three decades ago is showcasing a resurgent military that's trying to overcome years of decline after the breakup of the Soviet Union. Russia's oil wealth and Kremlin leader Vladimir Putin's ambition to return his country to its position as a world power have fueled the buildup. But analysts are quick to point out that Russia has picked on a weakling in its invasion of neighboring Georgia and is still a long way from developing a world-class military. Television images of Russian troops and tanks pressing into Georgia provoked reminders of Soviet military might and Cold War invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev ordered a halt to the 5-day-old conflict Tuesday, although Georgian leaders said the Russian attacks continued. Although Russian military spending is a small fraction of that of the United States — roughly $30 billion a year compared with more than $500 billion — the country's nuclear-equipped military is vastly improved from the early and mid-1990s, when soldiers foraged for food in potato fields and officers often had to hold second jobs.


    "The Russian military pretty much went into free-fall in the early 1990s," recalled Steven Pifer, who was the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine from 1998 to 2000 and is now a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution, a center-left research center in Washington, D.C. After the Soviet Union broke apart in 1991, Russia's military expenditures dropped to one-tenth of the Soviet Union's military budgets during the preceding decade, according to GlobalSecurity.org, an online military research site. Spending on weapons declined by 75 percent. After Putin became president in 2000, the former KGB spy embarked on a military buildup as oil production boosted Russia's economy by an average of 26 percent each year. The Defense Ministry launched an eight-year, $189 billion plan last year to build a new generation of intercontinental missiles, nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers and radars and make other upgrades. Russia also is improving the training, pay, benefits and treatment of soldiers, many of whom notoriously have been subjected to bullying and harassment by superiors. Thousands of Russian soldiers received combat experience through two conflicts in the breakaway republic of Chechnya. Additionally, the Russian military leaders behind the Georgia attacks apparently studied the NATO air campaign over Kosovo and Operation Iraqi Freedom, Nathan Hodge, a land-warfare specialist for Jane's Defence Weekly, said Tuesday in an analysis of the Russian-Georgian conflict.


    The Russian strikes into Georgia, which was once part of the Soviet Union, appeared designed to reverse Georgia's attempts to modernize and rearm, Hodge said. Georgia's $1 billion defense budget is much smaller than Russia's, but the smaller country nevertheless had developed a small, well-armed force with updated equipment, Hodge said. Retired Col. Christopher Langton, an analyst at London's International Institute for Strategic Studies, called the Russian attack a "classic Soviet-style invasion" featuring tanks, artillery, armored personnel carriers and aerial assaults. Other analysts said it was relatively easy for Russian troops to move across the border from their own country without the need for a long supply chain. "If we're talking about a theater-wide war in Europe, it would be a very different picture," said Stephen Blank, a professor at the Strategic Studies Institute of the U.S. Army War College. Russia also boasts one of the world's most respected air forces, with sophisticated multirole warplanes such as the MiG-29 and the Su-27. It's moving aggressively to develop unmanned aircraft similar to those the U.S. uses.

    Source: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ilitary13.html

    The ugly side of resurgent Russia?



    Tbilisi has desperately sought international support since Russian forces moved into Georgia after the Georgian army launched an offensive to bring separatist South Ossetia, which broke away in the early 1990s, back under government control. Mark Seddon, Al Jazeera's diplomatic correspondent, says Georgia's actions had clearly been anticipated by Moscow and that the Russian response may be an ominous portent of its future foreign policy. There should be an iron rule for all journalists, commentators and politicians when discussing the crisis in Georgia, especially when in the United States, where I am now. It is this, make it absolutely clear that you know which Georgia you are talking about. The looks of horror that have crossed peoples faces here when I have told them that Russia 'has invaded Georgia' is something to behold. This is not to trivialise the conflict that has erupted, but simply to remind ourselves of what was once said about Czechoslovakia as the Nazis prepared to invade the country after Neville Chamberlain, the British prime minister, had given his blessing. Namely, that it was 'a faraway country of which we know little'. Brutally, the same may be said about Georgia and, more so, of the two breakaway provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. For Zbigniew Brezinski, a former national security adviser to Jimmy Carter, the former United States president, and now a foreign policy adviser to presidential hopeful Barak Obama, has apparently compared Vladimir Putin to Adolf Hitler. Now Russia is, of course, in breach of international law, and having invaded a sovereign state, albeit one with sizeable pro-Russian enclaves, it is bound to expect a furious response from the West. But Brezinski, as a product of the Cold War, is unwise to make such sweeping claims, not least because Georgia is not Czechoslovakia and Russia is not the old Soviet Union.

    Nato encirclement

    Whether or not Western leaders like it, the increasingly autocratic political leadership in Moscow is reacting to what it sees as a gradual encirclement by Nato. The military alliance is moving steadily eastwards, and a new generation of long- range missiles are being prepared for deployment in what were Warsaw Pact member states. Moscow is not of course going to send the tanks into Prague or Budapest again. But recent history in the Caucasus suggests that on the inner fringes of the old Soviet bloc, where there are substantial Russian minorities, Moscow is not going to surrender them, and may use them to weaken what it sees as pro-Western governments. To which should be added something else; in those disputed areas with Russian minorities, those who stand in the way may be forced to leave. The untold story of both South Ossetia and Abkhazia is how those breakaway provinces have been emptied of their pro-Georgian populations, and how Russia has distributed passports for those who remain.

    Olympic blunder

    In retrospect, the move by Mikhail Saakashvili, the Georgain leader, to reign in South Ossetia when he thought that the rest of the world would be distracted by the opening of the Olympics in Beijing, was one of the least smart moves he could have made - particularly as it had clearly been anticipated by Moscow. A sensible policy of co-existence may not have assuaged nationalists in both Georgia and Russia, but it has to be a better way ahead than the vicious conflict that has now probably led to the informal, but permanent annexation of Georgian territory by Russia. This is not to excuse, but to try and understand. It may also be timely for Georgia, which, like Ukraine, wants membership of Nato. Had Georgia actually been a member, Nato members could have been called upon to come to the country's aid.

    Worrying foretaste

    A nightmare scenario of a Nato conflict with Russia over breakaway provinces in Georgia should at the very least make Nato planners think very carefully about further expansion. It may be one thing to occasionally poke the Russian bear when it is weak, quite another to get into its cage when it is beginning to feel stronger and more confident. Historians may look back at this period, and describe something that we may like to call the 'Kosovo Doctrine'. Moscow was opposed to the independence of Kosovo, despite the fact that most Kosovans wanted it, for Moscow was determined to stand by its old Slav ally Serbia, and wanted to send a warning to others in the former Soviet Union. The new Russia is not the plural democracy that many of its founders had hoped for. If Boris Yeltsin clumsily allowed the Perestroika and reform of Mikhail Gorbachev to disintegrate on his watch, as Gorbachev had himself allowed the Soviet Union to disintegrate without a proper plan for dealing with the fallout from that process, the new bosses in the Kremlin, appear to be saying 'so far and no further'. This is not a pleasant sight, and Russia's raw and ugly power displayed by its iron-fist policy in Georgia, may be a foretaste of much to come.

    Source: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/eu...629447507.html

    In related news:

    74 Russian army men killed in Georgia fighting


    Russia today said at least 74 army men were killed and 171 injured in five days of fierce fighting triggered by Georgia's attempt to regain control over the breakaway republic of South Ossetia. At least 19 servicemen were also reported missing, Deputy Chief of the General Staff Col-Gen Anatoly Nogovitsyn said and added that Russia has asked the Georgian military to exchange lists of POWs and persons missing in action. However, he was unable to give exact number of Georgian soldiers killed in action. Gen Nogovitsyn hinted that several black Americans and other foreigners were among the Georgian troops killed in the Russian operation. Russian army stopped active military operations in Georgia on August 12 but were told not to leave the positions where they received this order. "Some units are protecting transportation facilities, primarily the Zari road, through which humanitarian aid is being delivered and an independent medical battalion started working in Tskhinvali," he said. Meanwhile, the United States has cancelled upcoming joint military exercises with Russia, its first concrete response to the armed conflict in Georgia, as officials consider broader reprisals following Moscow aggression. A senior US defence official, speaking on condition of anonymity yesterday said, the August 15-23 exercises involving Russian, French, British and US warships in the Sea of Japan "have been scrapped." The exercises were to involve an onshore component in the Russian port of Vladivostok.

    Source: http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite...0?OpenDocument
    Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

    Նժդեհ


    Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

    Comment


    • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

      Originally posted by Angessa View Post
      While the citizens of Poland protest in street and only small miniroty want the missile shield there. I even her that many have sided with Russian.

      If the Ukrainians ever did there bluff about the port and allowed more nato. The people of the eastern part would riot in the streets and cossacks there will attack the Ukrainian government. Which is funny becuase the Ukrainians likes to claim the Cossacks as there but you never find one that is loyal or will fight for them. They all loyal to Russia and even press the Russian government to allow them to send men to the Russian militery cossack units.
      I am very familiar with Ukraine having spent some time there for business. Agnessa is correct; the country is split between east and west, Orthodox and Catholic, Russian and Ukrainian, Industrial versus Agrarian. The eastern Ukrainians are supporters of Russia as many are indeed Russian and they are the ones with the true wealth and power. They despise Yukoshenko and Yulia and support Yanukovich.

      Comment


      • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

        Russia not releasing two provinces




        Georgia is a U.S. Project - Russian FM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9hbLooJYOI

        Russian officials said Thursday that the Georgian government will not regain control over two breakaway provinces that are at the center of a weeklong military conflict, as the Kremlin issued an uncompromising response to U.S. and Western threats over its military incursion deep into the territory of its tiny neighbor. Russian troops remained in control of the key Georgian city of Gori on Thursday, although a top U.S. military official said in Washington that the invading force appeared to be preparing for a withdrawal, consistent with the terms of a cease-fire signed Tuesday. Amid reports of scattered explosions and the continued destruction of Georgian military assets by Russian troops, Joint Chiefs of Staff Vice Chairman James Cartwright said at a Pentagon briefing that Russian forces appeared to be "consolidating" in apparent preparation for a pullback. The cease-fire calls for troops to return to positions held before fighting broke out last week and a large Russian force rolled into the disputed provinces of South Ossetia and Azbhakia. "We see them generally complying and moving back to a position where they can make their exit," Cartwright said. Russian air activity over Georgia, he said, had all but ceased. The situation on the ground, however, remained in flux. According to the Georgian government and wire service reports from Gori, Georgian police had approached the city Thursday for the start of an expected handover, but left after it became apparent that the Russian troops planned to remain, at least for now. Gori is near South Ossetia and sits near the country's major east-west transportation routes.

        Confusing events

        The status of Russia's presence in a second strategic town, the port city of Poti, and in other locations around the country was also unclear. Georgian officials said that Russian troops remained in Poti, and also in the towns of Senaki and Zugdidi in the western part of the country. The confusing events on the ground were matched at the diplomatic level, with Kremlin officials seeming to back the breakaway aspirations of the two Georgian provinces, in opposition to U.S. and European demands that the country — closely allied with the West — remain intact. Following the events of the past week, "One can forget about any talk about Georgia's territorial integrity," said Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, the Associated Press reported from Moscow. "It is impossible to persuade South Ossetia and Abkhazia to agree with the logic that they can be forced back into the Georgian state." Russian President Dmitry Medvedev met Thursday with leaders of the separatist movements in the two provinces and pledged to support them in discussions about the future of the two disputed regions.

        Not concerned about threats

        Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice began a trip to the region Thursday, beginning with talks in France on her way to Tbilisi. Lavrov, in remarks broadcast on Russian radio, sounded unconcerned about White House threats that Russia could suffer a chill in relations with the West because of its incursion into Georgia. "I don't know how they are going to isolate us," Lavrov said during an interview on radio station Echo Moskvy. "I have heard threats that we are not going to be admitted to the (World Trade Organization), but we see clearly that nobody is going to admit us there anyway," he said. His remarks were translated by the Interfax news service. "Excuse my language, but they're just stringing us along." The Russian Foreign Ministry also issued a formal response to Bush's recent remarks on the situation, rebuking the United States for taking what it said was a one-sided view of the conflict. "We regret that the U.S. still refuses to admit the real cause for what happened, which is that (Georgian President) Mikhail Saakashvili's regime, in violation of all its international obligations, unleashed a war against the people of South Ossetia," the statement said. Bush said Wednesday that Russia's actions could make it unfit for membership in international political, economic and security alliances. Bush also reiterated U.S. support for Georgia, dispatching Rice to Tbilisi and ordering U.S. military forces to begin delivering humanitarian aid. Russia on Tuesday agreed to stop offensive operations and pull its troops out of Georgian territory, but a day later took over Gori, seized munitions at Georgian military bases and set up positions along the country's main east-west highway. Paramilitary fighters accompanying the troops looted homes and stole cars, witnesses said. Statements by Georgian officials that the Ossetians were looting Gori were supported by Western reporters who witnessed homes being ransacked, cars being seized and buildings being set on fire. Black smoke billowed over part of the city Wednesday afternoon.

        Source: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...d/5944873.html

        Russian convoy moves deeper inside Georgia: witness




        Russian tanks roll towards Tbilisi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ9yUnvNnNA

        A Russian military convoy advanced to within 55 km (34 miles) of Tbilisi on Friday, a Reuters witness said, in the deepest incursion since conflict with Georgia erupted last week. The advance by some 17 armored personnel carriers (APCs) and about 200 soldiers coincided with a visit by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to secure Georgia's signature on a French-brokered peace plan to end the fighting. Initially 10 APCs moved along the main highway from the Russian-occupied town of Gori, 25 km (15 miles) from breakaway South Ossetia, before stopping in the village of Igoeti. Several APCs headed down side roads and seven more arrived later. The exact mission of the incursion was not clear. At a news conference after President Mikheil Saakashvili signed the agreement, Rice called for the immediate withdrawal of Russian forces. The vehicles advanced unimpeded by Georgian police and army stationed along the road. A Reuters correspondent saw a military ambulance, snipers and rocket-propelled grenades. The convoy was initially shadowed by three low-flying Russian combat helicopters, which later left. Russian troops this week pushed out of South Ossetia as far as Gori in a counter-offensive to drive out Georgian forces who had tried to recapture the separatist South Ossetia region. Moscow declared a halt on Tuesday to military action but says it is securing Georgian military installations and abandoned arms dumps. On Thursday, Russian troops were spotted in Gori, the Black Sea port of Poti, and the western town of Zugdidi, which lies near another breakaway region, Abkhazia. Georgia has been calling for the Russian troops to pull back from Gori, alleging that irregular militias from over the border in the North Caucasus have moved in behind them and are looting and burning Georgian villages.

        Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/wtMos...BrandChannel=0

        Russian tanks in Georgia's Poti - witnesses




        Russian forces sink Georgian ships: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQXe9rLDW0U

        Russian tanks rolled into the Georgian port town of Poti on Thursday, accompanying trucks carrying troops to the port, witnesses said, but Russia denied its forces were there. "Just a few minutes ago they (Russians) entered Poti in tanks," a Poti shipping agent, Nikoloz Gogoli, said by telephone at about 0900 GMT. "Some of the guys have blue signs, badges, which means they should be peacekeepers." Vakhtang Tavberidze, acting harbourmaster in the port of Poti, said Russian peacekeepers had arrived at the military port accompanied by military vehicles, including tanks and armoured personnel carriers, and removed unidentified equipment. "Yesterday they came to the commercial port, but today they only came to the military port, to the coast guard area," Tavberidze said by telephone. "They took away some equipment." "This is looting," he added. "People are afraid to go in there. It might be mined." Asked about the reports, Russia's deputy chief of the general staff, Anatoly Nogovitsyn, said: "There are no Russian armour or troops in the city of Poti now." Nogovitsyn offered no further comment. Gogoli said the tanks did not enter the port and were moving in the direction of an old military base. Guards at the port said the tanks were accompanying troop trucks and moved away from the port once the trucks had parked inside. One guard said a truck was carrying around 20 troops and identified them as peacekeepers. A Reuters staff photographer on the scene was barred from entering the port. Earlier, Tavberidze said that Russian troops sank six Georgian cutters stored at Poti on Wednesday. He said no one was hurt. Gogoli and Tavberidze said the cutters, old military boats, were not fired on from sea or air. Russian troops warned bystanders of their plans, Gogoli said. "I think what they did was blow them up with some explosives," he said. Russia denied the previous day that its troops had entered Poti.

        Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/asiaCrisis/idUSLE126209

        Russian FM: Forget Georgian territorial integrity




        Russian troops must stay on alert in conflict zone - Medvedev: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD415eyg87I

        Russia's foreign minister says the question of Georgia's territorial integrity is a dead issue, a clear sign that Moscow is giving full backing to two separate regions in the wake of recent fighting and could absorb them. Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov made the statement Thursday simultaneously with the announcement that Russian President Dmitry Medvedev was meeting in the Kremlin with the separatist regions' leaders. "One can forget about any talk about Georgia's territorial integrity because, I believe, it is impossible to persuade South Ossetia and Abkhazia to agree with the logic that they can be forced back into the Georgian state," Lavrov told reporters.

        Source: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/...ia-Georgia.php
        Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

        Նժդեհ


        Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

        Comment


        • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

          I have to say that I am really disappointed and extremely nervous about the outcome of this fight. I don't understand why the Russian Federation did not deliver the cou'de gra. Although they absolutely smashed the Georgian army and left them in confusion and disarray, the Americans are essentially replacing everything the Georgians lost and much more. Unless Moscow has something else up her sleave this is extremely nerve-wrecking to me. The fact that Georgia lost is no doubt, but now Washington is pouring in everything its got back in.

          I don't understand why the Kremlin didn't demand ceasefire terms that would essentially keep Georgia disarmed, and they should have continued the advance to capture all the Georgian communication outlets (roads, bridges, railroads, airports, and seaports) until such concessions came.

          I am also very disappointed the arguments pushed forward by Moscow. Besides the one they made, they should have been pushing that they can not tolerate an openely declared enemy on its Caucasus border.

          Either way, now Moscow and Tehran need to aggressively engage each other to stop being so dam reactive to the Anglo-xxx-American axis and start being pro-active to push back significantly to force the squares on the chess board to fall in their camps.

          GOD FORBID the Anglo-J*w-American plans for the Caucasus come to fruition.
          GOD FORBID the Anglo-J*w-American plans for Iran come to fruition.
          GOD FORBID the Anglo-J*w American plans for Russia come to fruition.

          Comment


          • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

            My father told me something funny a Abkhazia said "we were warned by russia that Georgian military is american trained with the most advanced military equipment and an american general leading the georgian army. we didnt believe them. but when we saw how fast Georgian army was running away, we knew they were definitely trained by americnas. we have fought many wars and never have seen anyone run away as fast as american-trained army

            Comment


            • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

              Originally posted by Angessa View Post
              My father told me something funny a Abkhazia said "we were warned by russia that Georgian military is american trained with the most advanced military equipment and an american general leading the georgian army. we didnt believe them. but when we saw how fast Georgian army was running away, we knew they were definitely trained by americnas. we have fought many wars and never have seen anyone run away as fast as american-trained army

              Thanks, Angessa.
              I had a good laugh

              Not just Americans though. There were also Ukrainians, Turks, Israelis and all three types of Balts.

              Did you know that the Ukrainian mercenaries were the Zapadeni Ukrainians from Western Ukraine (Lviv, Karpati etc.)? If you never met them then let me tell you these are some of the most disgusting creatures you'd ever meet.

              The contrast between Western and Eastern Ukraine is just unbelievable. It's a shame that such a beautiful country is ruled by haters like Yushenko. But his time is running out too and unlike Georgia the opposition in Ukraine is real and very strong. They just need the moral support from Russia. I'm sure Putin got something in mind.

              Comment


              • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

                Originally posted by skhara View Post
                I have to say that I am really disappointed and extremely nervous about the outcome of this fight. I don't understand why the Russian Federation did not deliver the cou'de gra. Although they absolutely smashed the Georgian army and left them in confusion and disarray, the Americans are essentially replacing everything the Georgians lost and much more. Unless Moscow has something else up her sleave this is extremely nerve-wrecking to me. The fact that Georgia lost is no doubt, but now Washington is pouring in everything its got back in....
                You are being a bit too critical, Skhara. Look at what Moscow is doing, not what its saying. Separate diplomacy/politics from reality. For undestandable reasons, you are looking at this matter emotionally. You don't need to, this is not Yeltsin's Russia anymore. According to Moscow, the fighting should have stopped a week ago, yet during this very time period and despite all kinds of western threats Moscow sent its forces deeper into Georgia, moved on Tbilisi, destroyed Georgia's navy in Poti, hit the BTC pipeline, hit various strategic military instalations throughout Georgia, stated that Georgia can forget about its territorial integrity, and it even threatened Poland with a nuclear strike... Don't worry, Americans/European/Israeli weapons in Georgia will be used as live target practice. American/western forces do well only in desert environments and against third rate militaries. So let Tbilisi arm itself once again. In reality, direct American/western support for Georgia actually helps Moscow's geopolitial intentions in the region. Nonetheless, this campaign proved beyond doubt that the US/NATO/Israel can not conduct any types of serious business in the Caucasus region for the foreseeable future. This war was what Russia was hoping and praying for and Tbilisi's blind nationalism, high expectations from the West and irrational hate made it all come true. After this historic action by Moscow, Russia now controls all of the geopolitical and economic cards of the region - in full. Even if Moscow pulled out its forces from Georgia in total, the undisputed victor - economically, politically and militarily is the Russian Federation and its regional allies. The 1990s are over. This action finally ended Yeltsin's legacy.
                Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

                Նժդեհ


                Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

                  Fear rises among defeated as invaders show no sign of retreat



                  How long shall we stay in Gori? As long as we want to," the young Russian tank commander replied with casual arrogance. A mile down the road Georgian troops endured the sweltering heat for a second day, waiting for the Kremlin's permission to enter their own city. There was no sign yesterday of the Russians abiding by their pledge to withdraw from the strategic town of Gori, and hand it over to Georgian forces. Instead, just as Condoleezza Rice was due to speak about Russian withdrawal, an armoured column, escorted by helicopter gunships, moved out of the city to advance a further seven miles inside the country, taking up positions near the village of Igoeti.

                  The Russian presence in Gori, as well as in Abkhazia and the port of Poti, which is in Georgia "proper", is the reality of Moscow's might on the ground and the symbol of Georgia's national humiliation. By taking Gori and adjoining areas the Russians hold a strategic position little more than an hour's tank drive to the Georgian capital. They have also bisected the country east to west, controlling movement of traffic while positioning themselves close to the BTC pipeline, which carries energy supplies through Georgia to western Europe. The "peace" agreement brokered by the French government is now widely seen as an act of betrayal. A Georgian officer in an army convoy from Tbilisi which had come to a halt near the remains of a bombed Georgian tank, said: "We do feel let down, do you blame us? What happened to our allies? We do not know what will happen in the future but it looks like we may lose parts of our country."

                  A Georgian army base near Gori was partly destroyed by the Russians, who also sank five ships and patrol boats off Poti and bombed military airfields. The campaign group Human Rights Watch also accused Russia of using cluster bombs in civilian areas. The organisation said warplanes had dropped RBK-250 cluster bombs on Gori and the town of Ruisi this week, resulting in the deaths of 11 people including the Dutch television cameraman Stan Storimans. The Russians denied the claim. Georgian forces, heavily outgunned, have not engaged the Russians, with commanders privately admitting that to do so would have led to further pulverising attacks. Meanwhile, Ossetian, Cossack and Chechen militias which had entered the region continued to terrorise the local population, looting and burning, adding to the atrocities against civilians carried out by both sides.

                  The severity of the problem has been acknowledged by some senior Russian officers. Maj-Gen Vyacheslav Nikolaevich Borisov, in charge of Gori, said: "Ossetians are killing poor Georgians, this is a problem and we are trying to deal with it". He said his troops had been ordered to stop the abuse and arrest those responsible. Most of the atrocities occurred in Georgian enclaves in separatist South Ossetia and villages in Georgia proper outside Gori. Around 80 per cent of the population of Gori had fled and the town had been without water and power for three days. Yesterday, the Russians allowed some humanitarian aid to go through, but the numbers of those fleeing the violence continued to grow in refugee camps. Misha Amashvilli left his home in the village of Karbi in South Ossetia with his family of seven after, he said, his neighbour had been killed by militia. "We have nothing left and we cannot go back home ... our lives have been destroyed and I do not think our government or America can change that."

                  Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...at-898988.html
                  Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

                  Նժդեհ


                  Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

                  Comment


                  • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

                    Originally posted by HayotzAmrotz View Post
                    Thanks, Angessa.
                    I had a good laugh

                    Not just Americans though. There were also Ukrainians, Turks, Israelis and all three types of Balts.

                    Did you know that the Ukrainian mercenaries were the Zapadeni Ukrainians from Western Ukraine (Lviv, Karpati etc.)? If you never met them then let me tell you these are some of the most disgusting creatures you'd ever meet.

                    The contrast between Western and Eastern Ukraine is just unbelievable. It's a shame that such a beautiful country is ruled by haters like Yushenko. But his time is running out too and unlike Georgia the opposition in Ukraine is real and very strong. They just need the moral support from Russia. I'm sure Putin got something in mind.
                    Western Ukrainians are more like Poles than Russians. The irony is that many of them hate Poles too (read about the massacres of Poles in Volhynia (Western Ukrainian region) in WWII: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacr...es_in_Volhynia) and were the more avid Nazi collaborators. Eastern Ukrainians weren't under 300 years of Polish-Lithuanian-Catholic-xxxish rule and are practically the same as Russians.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

                      Originally posted by Merv View Post
                      Western Ukrainians are more like Poles than Russians. The irony is that many of them hate Poles too (read about the massacres of Poles in Volhynia (Western Ukrainian region) in WWII: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacr...es_in_Volhynia) and were the more avid Nazi collaborators. Eastern Ukrainians weren't under 300 years of Polish-Lithuanian-Catholic-xxxish rule and are practically the same as Russians.
                      It might be time for Ukraine to break into two.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X