Armenian-Turkish Relations

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Did you forget that with only a low number of men with muskets and wooden rifles we beat Azerbaijan when all we had was help from Russia and the U.S.?

They had high-tech weapons and help from 6 other countries. Yet they couldn't win again huntsmen with wooden rifles?

Wow, if your country thinks that your going to win because of numbers then you really are stupider than I thought.

Sero jan I know what you are trying to show but we never had the help of the Us, they were supporting the Azeris and are still doing that. We only had a very weak Russia with it's own problems and Iran who couldn't support us publicly but was doing it by sending food to Armenia. Without the the grain coming from Iran the war would have been harder, longer and more difficult for the people back home. When you look at the facts it's almost a miracle we won.

And it wasn't 6 nations it was almost the whole Islamic world + Ukraine+ and many more nations who send weapons and aid to the Azeris.

[Palavra]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

If they don't give it back, we have the right to rush in with force and literally blow their houses and take our land back.

You already have that right. Problem is you have not might. Also lets not forget, even If Turkey accept peacefully give land to ROA, what will you do with population?

You cannot exile or genocide people because Turkey apoligised you..

My concern was not for Turkey or the perspective of Turks. I was thinking as an Armenian and what benefits or losses this may represent for Armenia. I have heard many hopes expressed by Armenians that US or even Turkish recognition would usher in an era of change for Armenians and an opportunity to gain some measure of justice for wrongs committed. The political reality is that Armenia will not necessarily gain in any manner for its security and the losses to individual Armenians and the Armenian people will not be redressed by Turkey or any other government. With that in mind the political pressure that Armenians in the Diaspora are able to bring upon Turkey may be more useful to us then US or Turkish recognition of AG.

Problem is that, You cannot control diaspora so you cannot bargain with Turkey. You can suppress or harm Turkey but You cannot gain anything from Turkey.. Until now, what did you gain?

If you ask me, AG campaign is just a futile campaign.(If you look politically.) You did not gain much and You will not gain much.(Specially, If you compare benefit with wasted resource for this campaign.)

By the way, I was thinking that AG campaign was ethical one.

[UrMistake]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

So Palavara u say that if we have to talk in even seats in same table with turkey,then we have to able win them by force!!!
Or else they will fool us,will not lisen us,not care about our side!!
Turkey have not changed,other people,other politicians,other rulers,
but same policy.
Also pls dont add Genocide for weapon tool in propaganda,u say that turkeys point of view is diferent than Armenian 1,thats why is hard for them to accept,
so why u think that in Armenia we have same problems with u about lies and propaganda??this is ur problem ur political rules is doing this to u we have no such isues we have others.

[Palavra]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

So Palavara u say that if we have to talk in even seats in same table with turkey,then we have to able win them by force!!!

If you do not win them by force(I am not talking only military means.), You cannot gain much at table.

Or else they will fool us,will not lisen us,not care about our side!!

Neither care for other side. It is a negotiation. Not a day for feeling emotions or sufference of otherside.

Turkey have not changed,other people,other politicians,other rulers,
but same policy.

You are right. Turkey is following same policy all other countries are following.(Includes armenian.) She follow his benefit and ignore ethical values.(Yes, ROA will do same.)

Also pls dont add Genocide for weapon tool in propaganda,u say that turkeys point of view is diferent than Armenian 1,thats why is hard for them to accept,

Even I dislike to say it. Turkish people have an illness of nationalism. It blinds a lot turks but dont you find it sensible to not believe enemies.(in our situation, enemies are armenians.)

I should also add, most of Turkish people see themself as victim too.

so why u think that in Armenia we have same problems with u about lies and propaganda??

dont you? sorry but you are also blinded with nationalism and sufference of your ancestors.

[jgk3]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Dear Palarva:

Many Armenians are paranoid of those who can view their political and racial attitudes from an outsider's stance. They are used to fighting in order to keep their society. They fear annihilation at the hands of Turks. It is embedded in an Armenian's psyche.

Is this nationalism? Or is it a condition from which nationalism draws from?

[Palavra]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Nationalism generally feeded from both side. Fear and moral superiority(Yes, even evil turks think they have moral superiority.) So tell me that armenians have no feeling about moral superiority against their enemies or fear(not always sensible.) from their neighbors. dont you find it ironic when an armenian accuse(Moral superiority.) Turkey for blockading borders and same time afraid trade(fear) with Turkey?

Anyway, at armenian case, Situation(fear and survival instict) feed nationalism and nationalism feed this psyche. So It is a cycle. but tell me how many armenians are looking for exit from this cycle.


By the way, I hope I understand you well. I have some problem with my broken english. Sorry, If I missunderstood you.

[gmd]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Nationalism generally feeded from both side. Fear and moral superiority(Yes, even evil turks think they have moral superiority.) So tell me that armenians have no feeling about moral superiority against their enemies or fear(not always sensible.) from their neighbors. dont you find it ironic when an armenian accuse(Moral superiority.) Turkey for blockading borders and same time afraid trade(fear) with Turkey?

Anyway, at armenian case, Situation(fear and survival instict) feed nationalism and nationalism feed this psyche. So It is a cycle. but tell me how many armenians are looking for exit from this cycle.


By the way, I hope I understand you well. I have some problem with my broken english. Sorry, If I missunderstood you.

I for one am not concerned for moral superiority (maybe you can clarify what this means to you). I question and am concerned only with what benefits Armenia. While I can feel empathy for individuals, including Turks, in the end no nation's interests can take precedents over the survival of the Armenian nation.

[jgk3]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I for one am not concerned for moral superiority (maybe you can clarify what this means to you). I question and am concerned only with what benefits Armenia. While I can feel empathy for individuals, including Turks, in the end no nation's interests can take precedents over the survival of the Armenian nation.

again, you repeat my thoughts

[Palavra]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Can you count me three unethical act of armenian nation did against other nations?

I am sure, majority of armenians could not find three unethical act.(without looking it at a history book.) That is what I am meaning about moral superiority.

Also, As you can see, most of our armenian friend think that they have right to attack turks because They have moral superiority. turks are evil, uncivilized bla bla bla.they have no problem to call turks as murderer because we have different idea about history..

While I can feel empathy for individuals, including Turks, in the end no nation's interests can take precedents over the survival of the Armenian nation.

isnt this same for all of us?

[jgk3]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Well, is it comprehensible to say that the actions of genocide done to Christians in the Ottoman empire at the end of its line do not necessarily imply moral superiority on the part of the Armenians and Greeks? We want retribution for what was taken from us and not because we are better than you.

When Armenians begin calling you savages, etc... That is auxiliary to the underlying question of retribution. These are folk attitudes and they are natural, they are everywhere. No one becomes morally superior by engaging in name calling.

But the question of retribution still stands, it's political, make sense?