Armenian Georgian Relations

[Nare]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Looks like Vardanyan didn't fork over their share of the pie. And does he really think Georgia is any better to do businness, corruption there is rampant...

It is not only Vardanyan,is it? I wished it was only him and only because of Sargsyan.
Many Armenian bloggers now days have jobs and sometimes businesses which makes them travel to Georgia several times a month and they always mention that they either come across very little corruption or none at all.One of the bloggers actually implied that corruption towards Armenians still exists while others opposed it.
Inchevice, nranc corruption anhamemateli e merini het.

Just like you can't compare clever, hardworking and talented Armenians with lazy, jealous Georgians.

Saaka might be a good tie eater but he does make efforts to develop his country.
Amen or mer bloggerner' Tiflisi nkarner en dnum u govum,govum,govum...
Hayern el vonc vor national pride chunenan, vraciner' mer masin amena keghtot banern en asum, isk hayern siraharvatz en tiflisin...


Many successful people immigrate out of the country.

Wikileaks:

4. (C) Alexanian, who voted for Sargsian, said mounting economic uncertainties initially inspired his emigration plans, prompting him and his business partners, two of whom are his brothers, to diversify their real estate development business outside of Armenia. Alexanian said doing business in Armenia is increasingly "tough," and opened his arms wide to show how many licenses he had to obtain this past year before he could begin development of a small hydropower facility in southern Armenia. He vented that "one never knows what new laws will be passed," and that this factor is damaging to his present and future business plans. He was frustrated that Russian business partners with whom he invested in commercial real estate in Yerevan last year have now suspended their plans to develop the property in light of YEREVAN 00000375 002.2 OF 003 the political crisis. Alexanian also lost a business associate to emigration one month ago, to Canada, who also took his wife and young family. One of his brothers immigrated to Prague last year, and Alexanian has visited the Czech capital four times in the past 18 months to assess real estate options there. He said once he finds the right property to buy in Prague, he will take his wife, who is employed in Yerevan by the British internet firm Lycos, and his five-year-old son to begin a new life in Prague.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

“Armenia is 19 years old,” Yirikian says. “Look 10 to 20 years from now (before making a judgment on progress). What is important is the vision in the long run. It is not enough to love your Armenian identity. You love your identity by giving your best effort (to make change).”

We all want a rich, independent and strong homeland but we have to be patient. As one former member (Armenian) of this forum put it:

"We need a political evolutional, not a revolution"

If we don't show the patience and opt for a quick solution, we risk losing our independent country once and for all.

I am afraid this is the language of a “spiritual leader” (kahana) to the poor who he “knows” will
never make it to at least a descent level of dignity (financially) and worst of all he has no solution for them,
so he then switches to “hamperutyun” and “poor will go to heaven and the rich ........ bla bla bla”.
I grew up as a refugee so I know it.

Revolution does not mean bloodshed.
If you have a revolutionary idea it does not imply bloodshed to implement it.

Solutions are of no value (revolutionary or not).
Text books are full of them.
No different than say medicines in a pharmacy.

The task is the diagnosis ( the root cause) of the problem.
Then Convince the patient what is wrong with him.
Then Convince him that this is the right medicine for him.
Then Convince him that he has to take it however bitter the taste of the medicine is.
Then if he refuses you force upon him “for his own good”.

THEN “hamperutyun”
Results always take time and are never continuously progressive, there are always setbacks BUT
you know the course is correct ( you have faith in it / the people are with you).

Regarding the oligarchs, I share your concerns however I would want you to be more rational in this issue as well. I don't know what you've been taught during your history classes but all developed nations in this world have gone through the same "growing" pains that we are experiencing now. Just a century and a half ago there were "oligarchs" here in western europe. They all enriched themselves by exploiting the working class majority. This didn't change in a day or two and the change didn't come from politicians but it evolved from the society. The change came from the rich themselves who began doing something back for society with the money they earned. That's why I agree with people who say that our current government is the reflection of our society. We as a society have not developed that mindset which places national interests above personal interests. This is one of the consequences of not having an independent state in more than six centuries.
Please bear in mind that our republic is only 20 years old. It's not fair nor rational to compare Armenia to any developed country. In the 20 years of our young republics existence we have experienced hardships which most countries don't experience in a century or more. After all this, it's a miracle that we even have an independent homeland. Now back to the oligarchs, in short we need a lot of "Ralph Yirikian's" before this situation changes. Please if you have the time read this post by Federate about Ralph Yirikian:

http://forum.hyeclub.com/showthread....l=1#post303554.

I will come to this later .

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

How many countries do you think are really 'in charge of their destinies'?

Not many as long as there are words like United or Union or Federation or Common Wealth. New powers need to emerge and balance the playing field.

[arakeretzig]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Sorry for google translation, don't have time to correct but you will get the drift anyway...

How happy lazy Georgians are now at our expense!

Armenian businessmen prefer Georgia

According to the Service of a public registry of Georgia with the participation of Armenian citizens only on January 1 last year there were about 100 business entities, reports Business Georgia.



"From 1 January 2010 with the participation of Armenian citizens in Georgia were about 100 companies. Among them, 70 - a limited liability company, 3 branches, 24 private entrepreneurs, as well as several nonprofit organizations. In terms of business registration in Georgia is quite active and Citizens of Turkey, Azerbaijan, India and China "- the lawyer of the Agency of Public Registry Tamar Tsiklauri in an interview with broadcaster" PIC ".



Recall that recently in the Armenian media reported that the head of "Grand Holding" Hrant Vardanyan also intends to transfer its business in Georgia because of tensions with the Prime Minister Tigran Sargsyan and Foreign State Revenue Committee Gagik Khachatrian.



Meanwhile, he Sarkisian denies differences with Vardanyan. Moreover, he said that the information that Armenian businessmen prefer to move their business in Georgia inflated simultaneously urge the media to publish specific data that the Armenian government could do research and to identify the reasons why Armenians prefer to own home in Georgia. Apparently, Prime Minister of Armenia, the only person in the country who does not understand the reason for this trend.

Looks like Vardanyan didn't fork over their share of the pie. And does he really think Georgia is any better to do businness, corruption there is rampant...

[Nare]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Sorry for google translation, don't have time to correct but you will get the drift anyway...

How happy lazy Georgians are now at our expense!

Armenian businessmen prefer Georgia

According to the Service of a public registry of Georgia with the participation of Armenian citizens only on January 1 last year there were about 100 business entities, reports Business Georgia.



"From 1 January 2010 with the participation of Armenian citizens in Georgia were about 100 companies. Among them, 70 - a limited liability company, 3 branches, 24 private entrepreneurs, as well as several nonprofit organizations. In terms of business registration in Georgia is quite active and Citizens of Turkey, Azerbaijan, India and China "- the lawyer of the Agency of Public Registry Tamar Tsiklauri in an interview with broadcaster" PIC ".



Recall that recently in the Armenian media reported that the head of "Grand Holding" Hrant Vardanyan also intends to transfer its business in Georgia because of tensions with the Prime Minister Tigran Sargsyan and Foreign State Revenue Committee Gagik Khachatrian.



Meanwhile, he Sarkisian denies differences with Vardanyan. Moreover, he said that the information that Armenian businessmen prefer to move their business in Georgia inflated simultaneously urge the media to publish specific data that the Armenian government could do research and to identify the reasons why Armenians prefer to own home in Georgia. Apparently, Prime Minister of Armenia, the only person in the country who does not understand the reason for this trend.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Forming alliances to fend off enemies is part of survival. Independance is about forming your own identity/culture and being in control of your own destiny.

How many countries do you think are really 'in charge of their destinies'?

[Eddo211]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

http://forum.hyeclub.com/showthread....l=1#post305528

Thanks Fed, I m on it now.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

In respect to globalization, the U.S. doesn't act in its own interest, the U.S. military complex is like an army for hire. It will be sent to fight or protect the interests of the wealthy where ever in the world it is needed.

Independence doesn't have to mean isolating your country from the rest of the world. Forming alliances to fend off enemies is part of survival. Independance is about forming your own identity/culture and being in control of your own destiny. Wealth is also directly related to culture, you can breed poor culture and you can breed rich culture. This stems from education, work ethic and a society that favours development and growth by the majority of the people, not just by a few individuals. You have to be careful to avoid defining wealth as a collective of the population. You've achieved wealth when the average family doesn't have to worry about the basics like shelter or food but instead can focus on producing goods or services for others. Including their Georgian neighbours.

[Federate]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Nare, where is that Wikileak document you talk about.

http://forum.hyeclub.com/showthread.php/19021-Wikileaks-releases-new-documents?p=305528&viewfull=1#post305528

[Eddo211]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Nare,
Now do you seriously expect Armenia to be fully independent?

I would say as long as we are moving (even ever so slowly) towards full independance and not stagnate or move backwards then it should turn out OK.

Nare, where is that Wikileak document you talk about.