Elections in Armenia

[TomServo]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Eeek ... that's getting too intellectual.

The first step is for the Armenian electorate to actually want to be as free as they reasonably can be, and to believe that they are not getting that want futhfilled by the current system. The election results show that the majority seemto be at that stage, but it is not a big majority (yet).

Armenia's current culture of hegemony means that there has to be a great many more "have nots" than "haves", so democracy and equality and individuality can never flourish since that would mean the "have nots" demanding much more than the little they are given (note how Haykakan complains that they have "become greedy"). And most of the "haves" don't even get much compared to the "haves" at the top of the power pyramid. If only they would realise that they too would be better off in a new Armenia. The trouble is, the population has had a pressure release valve called emigration that allows them to escape to countries whose cultures of hegemony are less heavy-handed.

LOL, bell, I agree with you. Unlike in 2008, there seems to be a lot more pressure from the diaspora this time around (but not enough), as well as a lack of unanimity amongst Armenians within and without Armenia, which can only be a good thing.

And I was only kidding with all the Foucauldian stuff. Foucault actually had the luxury of theorizing within a country that was (and is) much freer than Armenia (though not nearly as free as Foucault would have wanted it to be).

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Elections in Armenia

OMG, since when did Armenian journalists start citing Gramsci?

But if hegemony/power is everywhere, can Armenian citizens ever really be free? There will always be structures of hegemony, even if the Sargsyan government is supplanted. And since the individual is a "fictitious atom" (Foucault) that is not a natural part of humanity but created by society, isn't there something wrong with making people act like they're individuals?

Nevertheless, I'd certainly prefer Raffi's culture of hegemony over the one that currently exists.

Eeek ... that's getting too intellectual.

The first step is for the Armenian electorate to actually want to be as free as they reasonably can be, and to believe that they are not getting that want futhfilled by the current system. The election results show that the majority seemto be at that stage, but it is not a big majority (yet).

Armenia's current culture of hegemony means that there has to be a great many more "have nots" than "haves", so democracy and equality and individuality can never flourish since that would mean the "have nots" demanding much more than the little they are given (note how Haykakan complains that they have "become greedy"). And most of the "haves" don't even get much compared to the "haves" at the top of the power pyramid. If only they would realise that they too would be better off in a new Armenia. The trouble is, the population has had a pressure release valve called emigration that allows them to escape to countries whose cultures of hegemony are less heavy-handed.

[TomServo]

Re: Elections in Armenia

What strikes me is how every point you make is invalid. Your understanding of the purpose of elections, the purpose of democracy, the purposes of culture and society itself, are irreconcilable with (and very far away from) what any reasonable person would want to see for Armenia's future. You are a supporter of the "culture of hegemony" this article talks about. Armenia is basically finished as a country unless it can rid itself of it.

OMG, since when did Armenian journalists start citing Gramsci?

But if hegemony/power is everywhere, can Armenian citizens ever really be free? There will always be structures of hegemony, even if the Sargsyan government is supplanted. And since the individual is a "fictitious atom" (Foucault) that is not a natural part of humanity but created by society, isn't there something wrong with making people act like they're individuals?

Nevertheless, I'd certainly prefer Raffi's culture of hegemony over the one that currently exists.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Elections in Armenia

You may have a point about his margin of victory but it could also be due the fact that Armenia has made progress on holding fairer elections. Either way i shutter to think what redneck Raffi would do if he gaines power. I would much rather stick with the present olis and Sarkisian then bring in a new set of foreign olis and redneck Raffi. I see nothing about Raffi that says he will do anything better then Serj has done. If you are going to call for revolution then you should have something to offer that the present power does not but i do not see Raffi offering anything of value to the armenian people. He sounds just like any other USA politition and is just as corrupt which makes him a worst option then Serj in my eyes. I am for anything that will improve the security and living conditions of armenians in Armenia but i do not see any of these things being better under Raffi-as a matter of fact i see both possibly being compromised much more so under Raffi then under Serj. Serj has done a great job to play Russia and the west against each other and has reaped the rewards from both while Raffi wants to sever ties with Russia Shakasvillie style. If Raffi gets his way who is going to defend Armenia from the turkish hoards? Some reforms were carried out under Serj during his first term and they worked. The unfortunate thing is that sometimes when you reform the masses become greedy and start demanding things that cannot be done. Thats when the likes of Raffi step in and deal a potential fatal blow to the nation. Sarkisyan's balanced approach to foreign policy issues is as far as i would like to see our policy move twords the west. What Raffi offers is far too dangerous and has been proven over and over again that the west cares more about making the turk content then caring for the existence of Armenia. Think about Armenias situation (blockade, war, earthquake, corruption..) then think about how far we have come since independence and LTP. Do we really want to go back to the days of LTP again by electing his buddy Raffi? The problems and dangers Armenia faced then have not gone away-those dangers are still very much there just waiting for another LTP to come along and shatter Armenia. Do not be a fool by supporting a redneck who offers you nothing but death-just ask paron redneck Raffi what his security plan is for Armenia and then ask yourself if it sounds like a plan you would want you and your family to live under.

What strikes me is how every point you make is invalid. Your understanding of the purpose of elections, the purpose of democracy, the purposes of culture and society itself, are irreconcilable with (and very far away from) what any reasonable person would want to see for Armenia's future. You are a supporter of the "culture of hegemony" this article talks about. Armenia is basically finished as a country unless it can rid itself of it.

YEREVAN'S STRIKING STUDENTS: A CLASH OF INTERESTS AND CULTURES HRANT GADARIGIAN

http://hetq.am/eng/news/23886/yerevan%E2%80%99s-striking-students-a-clash-of-interests-and-cultures.html

12:41, February 27, 2013

I got a call this morning to head down to Yerevan State University
to cover the third day of student protests in the Armenian Capital.

When I arrived the opposing camps had already been separated by
police. It was a stand-off as I perceived it.

One the one side, the activists were urging students to join the
ranks. The boycott was to protest what the strikers deemed as the
rigged February 18 presidential election.

The walk-out of college and university students began on Monday.

It now seems that the administrations of Yerevan State University and
the nearby State University of Medicine have effectively clamped down
on the mobility of students.

The strikers aren't being allowed to approach the campuses to get
their message across.

At Yerevan State University, several scuffles broke out between
students on both sides of the divide. Several student "leaders"
from the school called the protestors "outside agitators" who were
disrupting normal school life.

A few school administrators also were on the scene, basically demanding
that the activists leave.

It is apparent that the student activists have a tough road ahead of
them if they plan to continue such actions.

There is a clash of cultures and interests unfolding in the streets
of Yerevan today.

Had it not been for the actions of the strikers and their supporters,
this underlying tension would remain hidden to the naked eye.

But it exists and reveals a true social divide in Armenia.

The strikers are in a head to head confrontation with the "culture
of hegemony", as described by Antonio Gramsci, that permeates all
aspects of life in Armenia.

It is especially entrenched in Armenia's educational institutions
where the ruling regime, as embodied by the Republican Party, holds
sway through a myriad of mechanisms - nepotism, intimidation, pseudo
student councils, etc.

It is evident that many students inside these institutions have
consciously or otherwise bought into this regime imposed worldview
that has been accepted as the cultural and social norm.

The regime has created a system of beliefs, perceptions and values
that are to be taken as valid. Students are exposed to them daily
and are co-opted into the dominant system.

I saw the strikers being castigated as "puppets of the west" and
"enemies of the Armenian people".

While the police tried to maintain some semblance of neutrality,
it was evident where their sentiments lay.

I overhead a few police officials "advising" students opposing the
strikers as to tactics.

One or two of the top cops on the scene, even confessed that the
strike leaders held values that contradicted the traditional beliefs of
"true Armenians".

Mention was even made of Yeghia Nersesyan, a civic activist widely
known for his involvement in the Teghout and Mashtots Park protests.

The police official hinted that Nazaryan, originally from Syria,
was a ring-leader who had imported "alien" values to Armenia.

This, I found most disturbing. Not only was an attempt being made to
create an artificial divide amongst the students (the strikers were
"bad" and those who opposed them as "good"), but there was a subtle
undertone of discrimination between local and outside Armenians.

In the end, the dominant cultural hegemony dictates that to "protest"
is bad, something alien to Armenian society.

It thus follows, that those engaged in protest are "outsiders" and
"provocateurs", trying to corrupt that idealized society.

This is the social process that is unfolding in Armenia today;
whether in Freedom Square or the courtyard of Yerevan State University.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Immediately, it transpired that Raffi was hovering up the votes.

"Hovering up votes" - how does one do that? Rotate very rapidly like a helicopter, perhaps?
Mr Ahern really should know the difference between hovering and hoovering - even allowing for his education in a Catholic school.

Actually (looking at it again) the whole letter is shockingly badly written! His points would be far more convincing, and far less easy to avoid, if it had been composed better.

[Mher]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Armenia’s ex-presidential candidate was ahead by at least 3 to 1

March 11, 2013 | 15:46

2013 Armenian presidential election observer of OSCE and former Minister for Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Ireland Dermot Ahern issued a letter to Armenian Bar Association Chairman Garo Ghazarian regarding the fraud he witnessed during the February 18 election.

“Dear Garo Ghazarian, Chairman of the Armenian Bar Association

March 5, 2013

You might remember that we spoke at length on the plane from Yerevan to Paris, just after the presidential election. I indicated to you that I felt uneasy about what happened in the polling station and in the TEC that I observed on the day of the election.

To recap, I and my German colleague Hedda Haars observed six polling stations during the day and as instructed by the OSCE core team, we finished observing the election in PEC 26/1 Yeghvard Elementary School No 3. From what we saw, from 7 PM to the close at 8 PM, everything was done correctly.

The presiding officer and team proceeded to count the votes. Again, everything was done in accordance with the instructions. The presiding officer showed to everyone, including ourselves, our interpreter, our driver as well as a proxy on behalf of the incumbent, every vote once he had taken it from the envelope.

Immediately, it transpired that Raffi was hovering up the votes. This caused some surprise with the local participants. Indeed, it became somewhat embarrassing in that virtually every vote was for Raffi. Every odd time, a vote came out for the incumbent, there was a slight laugh from some of the locals. On and on, it continued with Raffi getting virtually all of the votes. The proxy for the incumbent was tallying in a very methodical way and I could see clearly from his tally that Raffi was way ahead. In fact, he actually ran out of paper, Raffi got so many votes over the incumbent. At about 9:15 PM. I sent a text to my principal to say that with 30 percent of the votes counted Raffi was at least 3 to 1 ahead.

During this time and up until when we left, a number of invalid votes were declared. For instance, one vote was declared invalid because the voter had voted for everyone, except the incumbent. Another vote was invalid because the voter voted for somebody who previously contested an election, but not this one. A number of other votes were declared invalid because they did not have the correct mark or indeed no mark at all. I estimated that there were more than 10 during our time there between 8 PM and 10 PM when we left for the TEC.

By the time we left, we both agreed that with approximately 35% of the vote counted, Raffi was ahead by at least 3 to 1. We proceeded to the TEC 26 in Yeghvard and introduced ourselves to the TEC team. The conditions of the location for tabulation at this location were far from ideal. It consisted of two rooms separated by a corridor which meant that I stayed in the room where the chair and deputy chair met with the PEC teams as they came in with their results. My colleague Hedda stayed in the other room where a secretary entered the results from the various protocols.

I was given very little cooperation by the TEC team in that they did not offer any information to me as to the PEC teams coming in with their protocols. The lack of space made it particularly difficult for me to see anything. I had to ask for information, any time I wanted it. My interpreter and driver indicated to me that the team were somewhat uneasy about our presence.

When the results came in from number 26/1, I particularly was interested and asked for the result. This wasn't forthcoming, but my interpreter got to see the protocol and indicated that the incumbent had beaten Raffi by 382 to 302 approximately. I was astonished by this apparent turnaround since we left the count. I tried to get more information, to no avail.

However, my interpreter then told me that he noticed on the protocol that there were zero invalid votes. I was completely taken aback by this, and I asked my interpreter to let the chair know about my astonishment.

Between then and when we finally finished the tabulation observation at approximately 3:30 AM, I was given little or no cooperation. I finally asked if I could see the final written result and the chair refused. I met up with my colleague Hedda who had expressed satisfaction with what she had seen in the other room, in that the results were properly put onto the computer. I suggested that she might ask the chairman herself for a copy of the protocol. But again he declined waving his hands in the air. We asked if they would be publishing the result and his reply was in the morning. We immediately left. We filled out the necessary form for the OSCE, having kept in constant contact with them during the night.

I've been practicing politician here in Ireland for 32 years, contesting and winning every election I personally fought in. I was director of elections board at national and local level for my party. I have never witnessed anything like this. From my experience, I know a trend, when I see one, and something very strange happened to overturn the result, after we left the count in PEC 26/1.

As I stated to you, I feel that full re-examination of this count should take place. I could not understand then and still now how invalid votes can become valid.

If you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact me.

Dermot Ahern

2013 presidential election observer of OSCE in Armenia, former Minister of Foreign Affairs and former Minister of Justice and Law Reform of the Republic of Ireland,” the letter reads.

http://news.am/eng/news/143903.html

[Haykakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

You may have a point about his margin of victory but it could also be due the fact that Armenia has made progress on holding fairer elections. Either way i shutter to think what redneck Raffi would do if he gaines power. I would much rather stick with the present olis and Sarkisian then bring in a new set of foreign olis and redneck Raffi. I see nothing about Raffi that says he will do anything better then Serj has done. If you are going to call for revolution then you should have something to offer that the present power does not but i do not see Raffi offering anything of value to the armenian people. He sounds just like any other USA politition and is just as corrupt which makes him a worst option then Serj in my eyes. I am for anything that will improve the security and living conditions of armenians in Armenia but i do not see any of these things being better under Raffi-as a matter of fact i see both possibly being compromised much more so under Raffi then under Serj. Serj has done a great job to play Russia and the west against each other and has reaped the rewards from both while Raffi wants to sever ties with Russia Shakasvillie style. If Raffi gets his way who is going to defend Armenia from the turkish hoards? Some reforms were carried out under Serj during his first term and they worked. The unfortunate thing is that sometimes when you reform the masses become greedy and start demanding things that cannot be done. Thats when the likes of Raffi step in and deal a potential fatal blow to the nation. Sarkisyan's balanced approach to foreign policy issues is as far as i would like to see our policy move twords the west. What Raffi offers is far too dangerous and has been proven over and over again that the west cares more about making the turk content then caring for the existence of Armenia. Think about Armenias situation (blockade, war, earthquake, corruption..) then think about how far we have come since independence and LTP. Do we really want to go back to the days of LTP again by electing his buddy Raffi? The problems and dangers Armenia faced then have not gone away-those dangers are still very much there just waiting for another LTP to come along and shatter Armenia. Do not be a fool by supporting a redneck who offers you nothing but death-just ask paron redneck Raffi what his security plan is for Armenia and then ask yourself if it sounds like a plan you would want you and your family to live under.

Everyone knows that the election was a crushing defeat of Sargysyan. Any encumbent leader in a society where power, corruption, patronage and deference is normal behaviour, and who has full control of a country's mainstream media and the electoral process that can't get at least 75% of the votes has lost. The 58% of the vote figure is meaningless in such a scenario. Sargsyan, and his type of politics, and the corrupt society that maintains it, has been rejected by the voters in Armenia. He is now faced with two difficult choices - either make fundamental reforms and make them quickly, or retire from politics before it becomes too late to save his neck.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Putin was among the first to congratulate Sargsyan on his victory in
the Feb 18 presidential election.

The official results say that Sargsyan secured 58.64% of the votes,
but Hovannisian is refusing to accept this figure and is holding
rallies all over Armenia.

Everyone knows that the election was a crushing defeat for Sargysyan. Any incumbent leader in a society where abuse of power, corruption, patronage, and deference to authority is normal behaviour, who has full control of a country's mainstream media and the electoral process, but who can't get at least 75% of the votes cast has actually lost. A 58% of the vote figure is meaningless in such a scenario. Sargsyan, and his type of politics, and the corrupt society that maintains it, has been rejected by the voters in Armenia. He is now faced with two difficult choices - either make fundamental reforms and make them quickly, or retire from politics before it becomes too late to save his neck.

[Haykakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Hey look Raffi is not content with just telling the president of Armenia what to do - now he is telling all world leaders what they should be doing.

RUSSIAN PRESIDENT MUST RECONSIDER HIS HASTY DECISION AND MUST STAND BY THE ARMENIAN PEOPLE

ARMINFO
Monday, March 11, 17:57

Russian President Vladimir Putin must be among the first to reconsider
his hasty decision to congratulate Serzh Sargsyan on reelected as
President of Armenia and must stand by the Armenian people, the leader
of Heritage Party Raffi Hovannisian said at Liberty Square on Monday.

He said that he believes in strategic partnership with democratic
Russia but to make this possible, Russia must become democratic and
must stop acting against the Armenian people.

According to Hovannisian, the United States and France have also broken
their democratic commitments and must also review their attitudes.

On Tuesday Serzh Sargsyan is starting an official visit to Moscow.

Putin was among the first to congratulate Sargsyan on his victory in
the Feb 18 presidential election.

The official results say that Sargsyan secured 58.64% of the votes,
but Hovannisian is refusing to accept this figure and is holding
rallies all over Armenia.

[Haykakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Hey Lernakan that link you posted is of a birdman-awsome vid btw. I think you mixed up your links. As for Raffi, judging from his behavior, i see nothing more then the typical western politition who is ready to screw over anyone at anytime for a bit more money and power. As they say-nothing to see here..just keep moving on.