Elections in Armenia

[londontsi]

Re: Elections in Armenia

You ask --- what has our President done to make him better than Raffi ?
Answer --- He hasn't become an American stooge .

Artashes

An American stooge President would not survive in Armenia.

We have the precedent of LTP presidency.

Half a dozen people will knock the Presidents door an say “ .....Mr President it is time for you to go ...”.
You have to listen to the wording of the LTP resignation speech to understand what I mean.

Unfortunately I do not have the clip or link to hand. From recollection he used the phrase “... forces which I will not go into ...”

... If you read between the lines that says a lot. Enough said !!

.

[londontsi]

Re: Elections in Armenia

.... you keep thinking Redneck Raffi .......

Could you please explain or define what is a Redneck ..... Google could not answer ....

Clearly your knowledge is beyond Google ....

[Artashes]

Re: Elections in Armenia

most of the people i know in yerevan have no idea what Serj is offering to be a president again. What has he done lately to make him better than Raffi and company? If your definition of "better than clowns like Raffi or Barouyr" is continuing his same policy, then I guess you're right.
Unfortunately, I don't see how Armenia can have a democratic system and better salaries when oligarchy is so deeply infested and the "me me me" attitude of many armenians in the country. The problem is much bigger than choosing Raffi or Serj, because neither of them can't do much about it. You'd have to change the whole system IMHO.

You ask --- what has our President done to make him better than Raffi ?
Answer --- He hasn't become an American stooge .
20 yrs of a new republic and in his one term he's accomplished more than all the others , don't you think ?
I think the politicle tight rope he is ( and has been ) compelled to walk whilst trying to accomplish all else has actually been done so masterfully as to be stunning !
Pressure from Russia , pressure from the oligarchies , pressure from the west ( super sneaky ) , hybrid turks ( simi hominoids ) , honestly I think there is more to the picture ( far more ) than is apparent .
You say --- you'd have to change the whole system ---
Who is you'd ?
I say --- for starters , let's not put everything on one mans shoulders ( Serj ) , but rather say --- what can I do , what can we as a diaspora do for our people !!!
Unless I'm mistaken , there is more dollars in the diaspora than the entire HAY economy !!!
Unless I'm mistaken there are more people in the diaspora than the entire population of what's left ( or acknowledged ) of Armenia !!!
If we as a diaspora can't get our shxt together and agree on common ground and actions to take , how can we look to our brethren who are HOLDING the fort down and say --- ?????
Is it only Serj's responsibility ???
An old saying --- United We STAND , divided WE ( Hayastanci's & Diaspora ) FALL .
The question is not only --- what has he done but what have we done .
Artashes

[londontsi]

Re: Elections in Armenia

.



This was not a football match where you can argue which side was better and who should have won always with your ( accepted) bias.

These elections were all about democracy and the will of the people.

What matters is fair, unbiased and transparent elections.


If you think Serj would make a better President then you vote for him.

You do not indulge in bribery, voter list manipulation, coercion etc. nor do you approve of fraudulent activity.

Election fraud is a criminal offence.
Those operators should be identified and punished irrespective on whose behalf they were acting.
When I say punishment I mean punishment.
My personal evaluation would be 3 - 5 years incarceration.
The reason being they are playing around with the stability of the country.

The protests in Freedom square were not meant to be for moral support to the loosing candidate.
THEY WERE FOR FRAUDULENT ELECTIONS.

One of the suggestions of the "loosing" candidate is to punish all those who participated in the irregularities.

I shuddered at one of the accusations that an Army Unit Commander had organised double voting for his men.

If Serj believes that the law is above everybody then why does he not agree to setup a criminal investigation unit to identify and prosecute the culprits.

I am not making this up but it is something which apparently will satisfy the "loosing" candidate.

It will also establish a precedent for healthy elections in the future.


.

[arakeretzig]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Mher djan,

I am replying to the part I have bolded above.
You can hear me talk against Serj all day, but, at the end of the day I would have voted for Serj because I believe he is much better than any of the clowns like Raffi or Barouyr. A lot of people that I know in Armenia have been talking against Serj for years, but I know they voted for him because they don't trust the others at all.

most of the people i know in yerevan have no idea what Serj is offering to be a president again. What has he done lately to make him better than Raffi and company? If your definition of "better than clowns like Raffi or Barouyr" is continuing his same policy, then I guess you're right.
Unfortunately, I don't see how Armenia can have a democratic system and better salaries when oligarchy is so deeply infested and the "me me me" attitude of many armenians in the country. The problem is much bigger than choosing Raffi or Serj, because neither of them can't do much about it. You'd have to change the whole system IMHO.

[Hakob]

Re: Elections in Armenia

[QUOTE=Vahram;340322]Nobody is proving to be better then Serj! The other clowns are just that clowns. Serj is the best we have at the moment why can't we just support the man? Having foreign money and outside pressures making clowns of the competition this you can all plainly see. In Giant American when the elections are over the people band around the prez until the next voting cycle. Why can't you guys understand simple things? We go on and on about the Government yet no one has anything better then Serj. In fact everyone else to my eyes is not only worse but dangerous. In fact we have an idiot who has less votes then Serj demanding the authorities hand over the presidency to him. All the outside monitors confirm it is Serj that has won, everyone knew this weeks in advance, the people want Serj! The people voted and got who they wanted, and Raffi if it was not so sad I would be laughing my arse off right about now. You must be kidding!

I holeheartedly agree with you. But still, we have to admit that Raffi is bringing something new to Armenia's political phsicho. 2 days ago I was alarmed by his actions. Thought that he wants to repeat 2008. But now I see him carrying out opposition in a new way, with respect to president and government. Before now, all opposing politics was carried out with dirtiest and lowest cuttroath manners and disrespect to public and government. Now there is an alternative to bitter and hatred full defeat, that is being introduced. Dignified opposition. Sort of it feels like Serj and Raffy have started a dance of ruller and opposition together in a new, more sensible and open way.
If all goes like this, it maybe possible for Raffi's opposition to help or force Serj to initiate further changes in govenment and minimise influence of oligarkhy.
It maybe sayd that Serj's reforms sometimes have been stuck because of oligarkhs whom he relied for his power.
Opposition did not truly have public support either because it's member's did not project better images then oligarkhs. It could not be sayd if public gathered around HAK more because of support for LTP or hatred for rulling coalition.
Now, enjoying more public support, Serj can distance himself from oligarkhs, and open to less radical opposition's ideas who also has public support capital. It is easier for a president to interact with an opposition whose main objective is not just to simply replace government and get power and controll, but the reforms themselfs.

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Yes I don't think its right to say Raffi clearly got a majority of the vote. If anything you could have replaced Raffi with almost anyone else, and results would have been identical; meaning this wasn't a vote for Rafi, as much as a vote against the ruling party, and vote for the rest of the field.

However, having said, I think its laughable to think anywhere near 58% of the country supports the ruling party. I think it is safe to say that Serj didn't get the majority. honestly, the graphic tomservo posted is dead on, because its difficult to find anyone in Armenia who supports the ruling party. Maybe 10-20% of the politically connected, but as far as regular citizens, I never found one person who said yes I support Serj.
As far as pre-election polling: for one, many of them were done way before the election, and even then there was a trend of serj's vote total decreasing and Raffi's increasing. Also, they were done by very obscure organizations. Furthermore, many disenchanted people could have simply chose not to respond, which would favor Serj supporters only responding. Moreover, I'm sure they wouldn't be difficult to manipulate considering the organizations that conducted them ( As Rafi put it Sood Gallup ). Finally, its not surprising that Serj would get a majority of them, even if they were fair, because they were done early on, when besides Serj, most of the field was unrecognizable.

Anyway, I don't think Raffi has any sort of a mandate, because he was simply the only alternative left and its hard to definitively claim he got majority of the vote. Having said that, I definitely don't think the election was representative of what the people of that country think.

Mher djan,

I am replying to the part I have bolded above.
You can hear me talk against Serj all day, but, at the end of the day I would have voted for Serj because I believe he is much better than any of the clowns like Raffi or Barouyr. A lot of people that I know in Armenia have been talking against Serj for years, but I know they voted for him because they don't trust the others at all.
Talking against the governemnt seems to be our national sport, the "manly" thing to do.

As for the bad looser Raffi, he is working hard to weaken the government, destabilize the country and make the population negative. His actions will lead into more emigration out of Armenia. Sultan Aliyev could not thank him enough.

[Vahram]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Nobody is proving to be better then Serj! The other clowns are just that clowns. Serj is the best we have at the moment why can't we just support the man? Having foreign money and outside pressures making clowns of the competition this you can all plainly see. In Giant American when the elections are over the people band around the prez until the next voting cycle. Why can't you guys understand simple things? We go on and on about the Government yet no one has anything better then Serj. In fact everyone else to my eyes is not only worse but dangerous. In fact we have an idiot who has less votes then Serj demanding the authorities hand over the presidency to him. All the outside monitors confirm it is Serj that has won, everyone knew this weeks in advance, the people want Serj! The people voted and got who they wanted, and Raffi if it was not so sad I would be laughing my arse off right about now. You must be kidding!

You have the Fed printing trillions of dollars and stuffing it in the pockets of bankers. Any profit goes to the big boys, any debt they have on the books gets picked up by the taxpayer. This is the reality in America, there is vested money interests all over the world, this is capitalism at it's finest and Armenia sadly is no exception to the rule. what portion of reality are some of you folks missing?

[Vrej1915]

Re: Elections in Armenia

http://www.lragir.am/index.php/arm/0/country/view/79021

imagine the amounts invested....
in just a small town, 800.000 USD...

[Vrej1915]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Սերժ Սարգսյանը "ոչ" է ասել Րաֆֆի Հովհաննիսյանի բոլոր առաջարկներին. նա գնում է "բարեւի հեղափոխության" վիդեո
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=6LEycP-wle0#!
22/02
Րաֆֆի Հովհաննիսյանն ի վերջո այսօրվա հանրահավաքում ներկայացրեց երեկ նախագահ Սերժ Սարգսյանի հետ հանդիպման մանրամասները։
Նա նախագահին առաջարկել է նոր ընտրություններ, սակայն առաջարկը մերժվել է։ Հովհաննիսյանի բոլոր առաջարկները մերժվել են։ Դրանք նա այսօր ներկայացրեց կետ առ կետ։
"Ես նրան ասացի՝ ճանաչի՛ր ժողովրդի հաղթանակը, պատասխանը՝ ո՛չ։ Շամպայն խմելու փոխարեն նոր ընտրություն կազմակերպի՛ր, պատասխանը՝ ո՛չ",- ասաց նա։
Ի վերջո Րաֆֆի Հովհաննիսյանն ամբողջությամբ համամասնական ընտրակարգով ԱԺ նոր ընտրություններ կազմակերպելու առաջարկ է ներկայացրել, սակայն նույնպես մերժում է ստացել։
"Ժառանգության" առաջնորդն այս դեպքում արդեն, իր իսկ խոսքով, "սահմանադրական ջրբաժանը" հաղթահարելու համար ասել է "վերջին խոսքը"՝ պատժել բոլոր ընտրակեղծարարներին՝ մարզեպ, շտաբի պետ, հրամանատար, նախարարներ, պատգամավորներ, ովքեր ճնշել են ժողովրդին եւ կեղծել ընտրությունները։ Նա նաեւ վստահեցրել է ու հրապարակում էլ հավաստիացրեց, որ շարունակելու է մնալ ու լինել ժողովրդի կողքին եւ պայքարն առաջ է տանելու։
Իր ելույթում Րաֆֆի Հովհաննիսյանն անուղղակիորեն ակնարկ արեց, որ ինքն ակնկալում է իշխանությունից՝ զինվորները պետք է պահպանեն սահմանը եւ դուրս չգան ժողովրդի դեմ, նույնը նաեւ՝ ոստիկանության պարագայում, ովքեր պետք է պահպանեն օրինականությունն ու ժողովրդի անվտանգությունը։
Իսկ առաջիկայում պայքարը շարունակելու առումով Հովհաննիսյանը տեղեկացրեց, որ պատրաստվում են հաղթանակը տանել "հաղթանակների բոլոր քաղաքներ եւ գյուղեր", որտեղ ինքն առավելագույն քվե է ստացել։
Այսպիսով՝ վաղը, ժամը 12.00-ին նա հավաք կանցկացնի Աշտարակ քաղաքում, 14:30-ին՝ Վանաձորում, 17։00-ին՝ Գյումրիում։ Իսկ կիրակի օրը հանրահավաք կգումարվի Երեւանում, "Ազատության" հրապարակում, ժամը 15.00-ին։
Րաֆֆի Հովհաննիսյանը հանրահավաքի մասնակիցներին կոչ արեց "բարեւի հեղափոխության" տրամաբանությամբ, անցնել Երեւանի կենտրոնի փողոցներով եւ վերադառնալ "Ազատության" հրապարակ։ Ժողովուրդը նրա հետ դուրս եկավ ինքնաբուխ երթի, որն այժմ ընթացքի մեջ է։

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