Elections in Armenia

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Look, I agree that the government should take a strong stance against Levon, but jailing, beating, and even killing the opposition I question.

Mos jan, you people should stop creating stupid fantasies in your own heads. The only deaths that occurred was on the night of the violent coup d'etat. On that day the "people" were destroying their own city and attacking police and troops with fire bombs, guns and hand grenades. The government was 'fully' justified in doing what they did. As a matter of fact, they did too little and they did it too late. And now they are 'fully' justified in jailing those involved in the attempted coup d'etat. As a matter of fact, even with the jailings they are doing far too little. Stop the pathetic BS about government jailing people that do not agree with them, its a "Radio Liberty" fairy tale. The fact of the matter is, Levon and his team of street whores pose a great danger to the Armenian state and they need to be eradicated. Wake the xxxx up, our nation is not in Western Europe, it's in the Caucasus. I rather have the government kills thousands of its troublesome citizens if it means safeguarding the Republic.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

First, Armenian expats in Russia, Europe and the U.S. are part of the diaspora. And whether or not the diaspora send money to their own family in Armenia or for 'special' projects, the financial aid is substantial and vital to the RA. As for the 'special' projects, do you even know who manages and controls the All Armenia Fund and the USA Armenia Fund. You could easily state that it was these people encouraged that crackdown on the opposition so that they could keep on keepin' on with their special projects.

Second, its really easy to sit in your little space in a free country and continue with your psychobabble that the West is bad and cracking down on people who are petitioning their government peacefully is okay to protect the Republic.

Do you know that the one market that was destroyed on March 1 was actually owned by an oppositionist?

Third, cracking down on dissent and media does not encourage one (whether or not they or Armenia or live in Armenia) to believe that the government is acting rationally or in the best interests of Armenia or its people.

[Virgil]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

First, Armenian expats in Russia, Europe and the U.S. are part of the diaspora. And whether or not the diaspora send money to their own family in Armenia or for 'special' projects, the financial aid is substantial and vital to the RA. As for the 'special' projects, do you even know who manages and controls the All Armenia Fund and the USA Armenia Fund. You could easily state that it was these people encouraged that crackdown on the opposition so that they could keep on keepin' on with their special projects.

No, the financial aid and any forms of aid, are just that, "aid". Aid does not turn the cogs of state building, people do. You don't build country on welfare checks paid for by the "Diaspora", states are built by people. Furthermore, Armenian's point is that you have third party known as the "Diaspora", that does not live in Armenia, but yet wants to mold and shape the Armenian state in their image, whatever this may be. And it is in this image building process that you have Pro-Western elements meddling in the affairs of Armenia via the "Diaspora". The reality is that the Diaspora serves the Armenian state, it is not the other way around, we are and should never be a political entity. The reality is that the Diaspora does not deserve citizenship nor should they consider themselves the "extension of the Armenian state", they should just stick to exporting new information, whatever this may be.

Second, its really easy to sit in your little space in a free country and continue with your psychobabble that the West is bad and cracking down on people who are petitioning their government peacefully is okay to protect the Republic.

As opposed to what, you? Sitting in western countries and spewing ideas and thoughts of revolution, while the Armenian citizens suffer through the chaos? Let us get something straight, the people for the opposition are the trouble makers not the people against revolution. It only falls on common sense why a individual would be against any armed conflict because armed conflict leads to instability, instability leads to chaos, chaos leads to violence, and violence, in a state like Armenia, leads to the collapse of government. We are not talking about "rebelling" against foreign governments, we are talking about civil war. This is not the Revolutionary War where you are breaking the chains of a foreign power, this is armed conflict between two political parties, which, in the process, leads to the shutting down of government. And the sad reality is that you are not sure which entity is good or which entity is evil, both have a dubious past. Therefore, the best decision is to just shut your mouth and be content with the status quo, anything else is unnecessary risk and certainly, a risk with consequences that only affect the Armenian citizens and the Armenian state.

Do you know that the one market that was destroyed on March 1 was actually owned by an oppositionist?

Yes, which points to the failure of the opposition to control their rebellion that was suppose to be "peaceful". They are even incompetent in regime change. And, let me ask you, you are going to trust these kinds of people? A band of midgets that can not even control their own insurrection? What happens then if a foreign power is attacking cities and borders, are these groups going to use the frenzied mob against enemy forces? Stop with your garbage, no one buys it.

Third, cracking down on dissent and media does not encourage one (whether or not they or Armenia or live in Armenia) to believe that the government is acting rationally or in the best interests of Armenia or its people.

Yeah, neither does breaking stores and petty theft in the name of "democracy" encourage one to believe in (a) the competence of these would be "Robin hoods" and (b) the sincerity of the political message of bringing "democracy to the masses".

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

If you don't think the RA does not like, want, or, need the diaspora and their special projects, then why did they just give the old man from Glendale dual citizenship. Note, he is the first person to receive dual citizenship in the RA.
ttp://www.asbarez.com/index.html?showarticle=29080_3/29/2008_1

C'mon, you are only fooling yourself with your nonsense and paranoid dribble.

Some of those that have special projects in the RA probably favor the political status quo, or worse, regardless of whether or not it is good for RA citizens or whether or not they want it.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

If you don't think the RA does not like, want, or, need the diaspora and their special projects, then why did they just give the old man from Glendale dual citizenship. Note, he is the first person to receive dual citizenship in the RA.

No one is saying that the Armenian Republic does not want or need diasporan help. We are simply saying that such aid can not come at a high price. If foreign help gets in the way of Armenia's national interests then we don't need it. Levonakans amaze me with their irrationality, lack of concern and lack of objectivity. Levon supporters need to wake the xxxx up, they are playing with the very existence of the Armenian Republic.

[Armanen]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

If you don't think the RA does not like, want, or, need the diaspora and their special projects

He never said that, do not put words in his mouth.

The Diaspora should and often does serve the RA, this is good, and in turn the RA should put that service to good use, the ultimate goal (in Diaspora-Armenia relations) is for one day Armenians from all over the world to return to the RA, this may be idealistic but we should strive for it nonetheless.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Take a close look at the alarming heights of delirium Levonakans are reaching. In this Armenianow article a teacher speaks about what she is teaching her student regarding the recent events in Armenia: http://www.armenianow.com/?action=vi...D=2897&lng=eng

The following is a comment posted by an individual named Ashot:

Togh yerekhanerin dastiaraken LTP-akan arjeqnerov yev tikin Bashkhyani pes haytararen, vor zohvatsneri tiv@ 7-n e, qani vor spayi kyanq@ arjeq chuni, nran spanogh@ chpiti datvi. Isk qaghaqatsi karogh en hamarvel miayn LTP-i koghmnakitsner@, myusner@ ishkhanutyan struknern en, nrants el kareli e spanel, nrants kyanqn el arjeq chuni.

Translation:

Let the children be taught Levonakan values. And like Mis Bashkhyan let them claim that only 'seven' people died because the life of the officer that died has no value and the person that killed him should not be judged. And only Levon supporters can be considered citizens, the others are slave sof the authorities and they should be killed, their life has no value.
- Ashot, 2008-03-22 06:38:28

Yes, if this Ashot character is for real, and represents elements with the Levon camp, then these people need to be slaughtered in the streets like wild Turks. We have not been successful as a nation simply because we are too tolerant of our people. We need Darwinism, if we want a powerful and prosperous nation.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I find it fascinating that after the massive voting frauds that occurred, you can sit here and defend the government as somehow protecting an interest higher than the people they supposedly represent. Do you seriously contend that there was no funny business that occurred?

I really don't understand what's wrong with you people in California. Can you please point out who today is claiming that "fraud" did not occur? Stop the stupid slogans, it undermines your intellectual integrity.

The fact of the matter is that fraud occurred on BOTH sides during the elections. However, it is natural that the authorities in power clearly had more advantages/tools in promoting their interests.

However, let's realize that this crisis is not about Serzh Sargsyan, it's about regional superpower politics. It's no secret that the West wants to see Armenia isolated/weakened due to Yerevan's close relations with Russia and Iran and due to Armenia's historic disputes with Azeris and Turks. So they, in the West, simply use the hungry masses in Armenia and delusional idiots in the diaspora to rise up against the unpopular government.

And let me make one thing perfectly clear - Levon supporters have absolutely no right in talking about democracy or human rights. During Levon's rule corruption and crime was at its worst, they utterly ruined the nation from inside out. What's more, Levon is a pro-Turk politician. Levon is the one that has been using anti-Artsakh rhetoric in his speeches. Levon is the one that attempted to undermine our victories in Artsakh and undermined the diaspora's genocide recognition efforts. What's more, we clearly see who is behind Levon - criminals like Grzo, Arzumanian, Manvel Grigorian. So, what right do Levon fans have in talking about democracy?! Its xxxxing bullshit. Before Levonakans set the country back ten years, Armenia was clearly heading in the right direction.

Face it, Levonakans xxxxed it up for us again. Study Armenian history, you will clearly see a line of "Levonakans" ruining things for us throughout history.

The bottom line is Levon had to be defeated, even if it meant canceling the entire election and putting Armenia under a dictatorship. This is not about Serzh, its not about Robert, its not about democracy, election fraud or human rights, this is about regional superpower politics and Armenia's survival in the Caucasus. Look past your personal feelings and realize that the existence of our nation is dependent upon its internal stability and international support. For the sake of longterm geopolitical reasons, responsible Armenians need to talk against the foolishness of the Levon camp.

So it's okay for police acting under the arm of the state, to kill, jail, and maim individuals but not okay when individuals resist against the corrupt power of the state?

Yes, its perfectly ok to kill, maim and jail individuals that are trying to undermine the state and overthrow the government by force. Wake up. At one time or another, such actions were taken by all nations on earth, including the most civilized ones. The fact of the matter is the masses in Armenia today are begin lead by foreign agents and criminals. So, I expect the government to show these traitors and criminals, and their naive/ignorant supporters in the public, no mercy what-so-ever.

Jesus, it seems some people want nothing short of totalitarian and despotic regimes and disagreements and dissent are nothing but bad news, but conformity and silencing dissent must be advanced at every cost.

Stop misrepresenting the issue to make yourself feel better. This is not about "disagreements and dissent," there has been quite a lot of such opposition in Armenia. You can find all forms of anti-government rhetoric, even today. This is about criminals and traitors manipulating the disgruntled people to overthrow the government by force. They have passed the line, that is why the authorities are cracking down on them. I suggest you wake up. And also realize that you are talking about the Caucasus.

Btw, why is it that American's favorite whores have the worst human rights records yet there is no American pressure on them? Could it be geopolitical calculations and the simple fact that no one really gives a xxxx about human rights and democracy? Nevertheless, under the circumstances, Armenia is (was) better at democracy the most nations on earth today.

I would like to believe this isn't some Asiatic / Turkic Mongoloid banana republic.

Sadly, that fact that you even brought it up means that you do believe it. I just don't get you delusional people.

Anyone who can seriously sit here, like a keyboard warrior, and contend that no funny business occurred in Armenia during the kangaroo elections and defend the corrupt state, has their head so far up their a55es they need a glass belly to view the outside world.

Wake up and see the real world around you before you make such foolish statements. This is not about Serzh Sargsyan, this is about having someone like Levon back into power. Levon and company simply want to replace the current corruption with their form of corruption. Faced with these choices - corrupt pro-Russian nationalists and corrupt pro-Turk ass-givers - I'll take the corrupt pro-Russian nationalists. I simply can't believe how foolish and illogical Levon supporters can be. You people are destroying the nation as we speak. It's amazing.

Annonymouse, I know you are a very smart individual, that is why your sentiments are deeply troubling for me. I don't understand what has come over our nation. Please, put aside personal feelings, open your eyes and see the bigger picture in all this. This crisis is not about Serzh Sargasyan, or Dodi Gago for that matter, this crisis is about serious regional superpower politics. Armenia's survival depends on its internal stability and international support.

Today, thanks Levonakans, we lost both.

[skhara]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I think events in Armenia demonstrated very well why authorities in the Kremlin have stifled "opposition" media. I do hope Armenian authorities start putting down similar clamps.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I think events in Armenia demonstrated very well why authorities in the Kremlin have stifled "opposition" media. I do hope Armenian authorities start putting down similar clamps.

That's the difference between an impoverished, tiny, landlocked, resources-less nation surrounded by enemies and a major superpower. When you have power/money you can do whatever you want, that is in essence one of the fundamental laws of mankind. Also, a majority of our people are not 'political' nor are they necessarily patriotic. Let's not confuse 'proud' Armenians with patriotic/nationalistic Armenians. Also, as a result of the Genocide, there is this thing now about "Armenians killing Armenians." In my opinion, this is one of our biggest weaknesses. We have too much toleration towards our domestic garbage. Look at all major nations on earth: USA, Russia, England, France, China, Japan. These nations, without exception, have had major civil wars (interior cleansing) in their national genesis. On the other hand, however, due to our geopolitical predicament we can not afford to have one as of yet. So, we have to deal with the vermin. As a result of all this, the authorities were able to do too little and they did it too late. In an ideal world, all of the coup detat organizers would have been rounded up and shot; several machine gun crews would have put the rioting to a quick stop; and this would have been followed up contract killing of all diasporan organizers in places like LA.

This issue has gotten beyond debating with Levon worshipers. Just read and listen to their rhetoric, what they are preaching is essentially suicide. Not a single one of their arguments holds up to scrutiny, it's all hate based. It's simply boggles the mind. Like I told Annonymouse, this crisis in Armenia is not about Serzh Sargasyan, or any other corrupt official, this crisis is about serious regional superpower politics. As we all know, Armenia's survival depends on its internal stability and international support. Today, thanks Levon and his street whores, we have lost both. The next few months and years will be very crucial for the Armenian Republic. I'm afraid Armenia now is flirting with the prospects of becoming a failed state. Like I have said in the past, I have more hope in Russians to set Armenians straight. I would like to see Moscow get involved in our domestic affairs.

You know what, I am so xxxxing disgusted with these xxxxxxxs who are worshiping Levon that I would not mind it if Armenia was simply incorporated into the Russian Federation.

Study Armenian history, you will clearly see a line of "Levonakans" ruining things for us throughout history. This reminds me of the political crisis during the fifth century (even back then it was east versus west) that lead to the dethronement of the Armenian king by the nation's nobles, who then went on to invite the Persian Shah to come and rule over Armenia. What followed then was Armenia's "Golden Period." So today, if the political situation becomes unattainable in Yerevan, I expect our leadership to simply hand over Armenia to Mother Russia.

xxxx the Hayr-enik if the "Hayr" can't keep his house in order. History is repeating.