Elections in Armenia

[CatWoman]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Thanks Armenian for the great posts and videos. It's interesting that hetq has article after article complaining about lack of 'freedom of speech' and 'democracy' in Armenia yet has none on its own simple website. Pure hypocrisy.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Armenia is still teetering, and war clouds are gathering

IN HIS Easter service Karekin II, spiritual leader of Armenian Christians, exhorted his congregation to be “one flock, with one shepherd”. For diplomats present the prelate's words were laced with meaning. Might he be urging Armenians to rally behind the president-elect, Serzh Sarkisian? Over a month after Mr Sarkisian, the prime minister, declared victory in the February 19th presidential election, his future is uncertain. Trouble began when thousands of protesters led by his rival, Levon Ter-Petrosian, took to the streets, claiming that Mr Sarkisian stole the vote. The protests turned bloody when eight people were killed on March 1st. Emergency rule was imposed, although it was lifted as promised on March 21st. But later that day hundreds of riot police intervened when a largely female crowd tried to hold a vigil in memory of the dead. Opposition supporters are being arrested in droves. One activist alleged that his car was torched because he backed a pro-opposition news channel, Gala. A hastily crafted law to bar political gatherings has been approved by parliament. Such tactics are calculated to stifle opposition for good. But can they?

Some Western diplomats fret that Armenia's strife might tempt a bellicose Azerbaijan to try and regain control of the disputed enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh. The Azeris are said to be spooked by Kosovo's successful campaign for independence and fear that Nagorno-Karabakh might win international recognition. Ominously, Azerbaijan threatened to pull out of international peace talks after America, Russia and France voted against a UN resolution calling for the withdrawal of Armenian forces from Nagorno-Karabakh and the surrounding region. This follows some of the deadliest border skirmishes between Azeri and Armenian forces in years. Mr Sarkisian is due to be sworn in on April 9th. He “needs to win the confidence of the Armenian people, so that we may unite before this threat [from Azerbaijan],” says one official. The surest way to do that would be to order an independent investigation of the March 1st events, declare an amnesty for recent political detainees, and form a cabinet untainted by graft, suggests Anahit Bakshian, an opposition member of parliament.

The Americans are threatening to freeze millions of dollars in aid. Armenia should “pull itself together and get back on a democratic path,” says Dan Fried, of the State Department. Or Armenia “may go the Belarus way,” says Mrs Bakshian. Yet few believe that this is what Mr Sarkisian would choose. Although a nationalist and no liberal, he has presided over record growth and a sharp reduction in poverty. A chess player and veteran of the Karabakh war in the 1990s, Mr Sarkisian has kept close ties with Russia even as he has courted the West. Mikhail Baghdassarov, a businessman and ally of Mr Sarkisian, believes he will usher in young Western-trained technocrats and make the market-friendly governor of the central bank, Tigran Sarkisian, prime minister. Mr Ter-Petrosian vows to keep his supporters on the streets until the election is overturned. There is a whiff of revenge about his campaign, but his fiery talk of justice and freedom has inspired Armenians. “Until this election I wasn't interested in politics. Levon gave us the feeling that we can shape our own destiny,” says a young Armenian painter. “No amount of repression can take that feeling away.”

Source: http://www.economist.com/world/europ...ry_id=10925842

[Armanen]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Although a nationalist and no liberal

Serge has a nationalist tint to him, but to flatly call him a "nationalist" like the economist did is far off the mark, and another example of the negative pr against Armenia by outside forces in league with levin and the xxxxxs within Armenia.

Or Armenia “may go the Belarus way,”

BS, and if the "Belarus way" is not being the bi*** of the eu or u.s. then it's a way more nations should want to follow.

The Americans are threatening to freeze millions of dollars in aid.

Funny how nothing like this was suggested when sackaxxxxvilli cracked down on the opposition a few months ago, or the azeri provocation near the Mardakert region on March 4th. Both got lame responses from the state dept. and in the case of March 4th. said both sides should keep their cool, when it was the azeri scum who once again violated the ceasefire.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

The Americans are threatening to freeze millions of dollars in aid.

This is further proof of how money is used by the West to buy subservience. However, isn't it funny how those who want to spearhead the noble campaign against "corruption" are constantly trying to "bribe" nations. And when they don't get their way they attack unwilling nations for being despotic and corrupt

Or Armenia “may go the Belarus way,”

These asswipes are xxxxing funny

The fact is Belarus is much-much more democratic than most of Washington's favorite whores - Turkey, Albania, Georgia, Kosovo, Bosnia, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan...

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Thanks Armenian for the great posts and videos. It's interesting that hetq has article after article complaining about lack of 'freedom of speech' and 'democracy' in Armenia yet has none on its own simple website. Pure hypocrisy.

Thank you for your compliment. Armenianow, the site run by the horse faced CIA agent from Alabama is censoring anti-Levon/anti-West posts as well. In their twisted world, freedom of speech applies only when you are kissing their asses.

More on Levon style "freedom and democracy":

Ter-Petrossyan's U.S. Supporters Stifle Free Speech Through Violence

By APPO JABARIAN Executive Publisher/Managing Editor
USA ARMENIAN LIFE Magazine [email protected]

On Saturday, March 22, at around 10:30 p.m., during a live broadcast of a round table discussion in Glendale, California, two supporters of Levon Ter-Petrossyan, a failed presidential candidate, attacked the studios of ARTN TV, then they intruded upon the participants of the TV show that was underway, aiming to interrupt their discussion, said a spokesman of the TV station. This invasion of the TV station caused a wave of complaints by Armenian TV viewers. The spokesman added that "the nature of that incident and the style in which it was carried out is totally compatible with the so-called 'democracy project' that is adopted by 'H.H.Sh.,' also known as the 'Armenian National Movement’ political party (the main backers of Ter-Petrossyan's candidacy)." The spokesman continued: "By way of direct threats of ‘liquidation’ of TV show participants; threatening their lives; and cursing, the invaders demanded that the show be stopped. This awfully unpleasant attack -- nothing short of an attempt to stifle free speech -- boldly reflects these forces' 'vision' for and attitude toward freedom, democracy and human rights. But in the United States of America, similar acts of sabotage cannot prevail. This incident's investigation has been assigned to law enforcement officials."

On Monday, March 24, during an interview with USA Armenian Life Magazine and Hye Kiank Armenian Weekly, Mr. Robert Oglakhchyan, President and Chief Executive Officer of ARTN-TV Company, told this writer "the management of the studio strongly condemns this very disturbing act that intended to obstruct the work of free media." He said that on Saturday night upon learning of this incident, the City of Glendale Police Dept. rapidly responded and rushed to the scene and began interrogating the victims. A thorough investigation is being conducted. On Tuesday, March 25, it became apparent that the violators of law and order will be held accountable. This incident reconfirms the fact that in order to undermine free speech, Ter-Petrossyan's supporters are capable of resorting to violence, even in the United States! As many readers may recall, several Ter-Petrossyan supporters disrespectfully rejected dialogue in the form of free exchange of ideas and opinions via USA Armenian Life online. They have even resorted to foul language directed against this writer. During the period from March 13 through March 25, the editorial offices of USA Armenian Life received several responses from readers from around the world.

The letter-writers were separated into four groups. The first group consisted of Ter-Petrossyan supporters. The second group consisted of Serge Sargsyan supporters. The third was composed of patriots critical of both Ter-Petrossyan's "anti-Armenia activities" and Sargsyan's "state-level corruption." The fourth group consisted of patriots who were critical of the corruption taking place during the current administration, but because of the imminent danger posed by Ter-Petrossyan, chose to help Armenia fend-off a far more serious danger that threatens its very existence, stability and statehood. The overwhelming majority of letter-writers belonged to the fourth group. Those who belonged to the first group represented only 15% of the total responses received. Most of the responses received from the first group rejected any dialogue demanding that their e-addresses be removed from the USA Armenian Life online distribution list.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

It is quite obvious that one of the aspects of Armenian foreign policy that is being attacked by the West and Levon supporters is Armenia's strategic alliance with Russia. When you come across rhetoric that is hostile to Russian-Armenian relations in websites or blogs, you can post variations of the following commentaries as replies:

Armenianow has an article that pertains this topic: http://www.armenianow.com/?action=vi...D=1179&lng=eng

Although there are a few wrinkles that need to be ironed out, for better or for worst, Armenia's future lies with the Russian Federation.

Why Russia? Besides the centuries long history between Armenians and Russians, besides the fact that due to a Russian presence in the region there is an Armenia in the Caucasus today, besides the fact that Russia is amongst the most culturally advanced nations on earth - Armenians need to understand that the twenty-first century potentially belongs to Russia and that is, in essence, why we are currently seeing a frenzy of activity in the West to contain and undermine the Russian Federation throughout Eurasia.

Armenians need to understand that Russia is a natural bulwork against pan-Turkism, western imperialism and Sunni fundamentalism.

I am very glad that the "Hanrapetakan" party in Armenia, represented today by president elect Serzh Sargsyan, has had the strategic foresight to make sure that Armenia remains firmly within Moscow's sphere of influence. Concurrently, I am grateful that Moscow continues to realize the vital strategic importance of the Armenian Republic within the Caucasus.

Why is Armenia important for Russia? For geostrategic reasons, namely to keep NATO and Turks out of the Caucasus and to secure its oil/gas distribution networks, Moscow needs Armenia as a powerful state in the region. And as noted above, for geostrategic, economic and survival reasons - Armenia needs Russia.

The fact of the matter is, the West has no real interests within the tiny landlocked resource-less Armenian Republic other than to make sure official Yerevan does not interfere with their regional projects. The West's interest in the region is primarily the exploitation of Caspian Sea basin oil and gas, keeping the large powerful nation of Turkey within its sphere of influence and keeping Russia at bay, out of the Caucasus.

Needless to say, without the Russian factor at play in the Caucasus, the every existence of the Armenian nation can be at risk. For the West, Armenia is simply a geopolitical obstacle, a nuisance. Thus, the formula that promotes Russo-Armenian relations today is relatively a simple one: For Russia, Armenia is a strategic gate, a foothold in the Caucasus, that it has to protect for its national interests. For Armenia, Russia is a sustainer that it needs to stay alive in a very volatile and complicated geopolitical environment.

For a small, landlocked and resources-less nation surrounded by historic enemies in an increasingly complicated world, Armenia has no other option but to place its longterm and short term hopes on Mother Russia. May God bless the Russo-Armenian alliance.

With historic land disputes with its Turkic neighbors, with good relations with Iran and with a deep rooted strategic alliance with the Russian Federation - Armenia today is a political obstacle in the Caucasus region, as far as the West is concerned.

Nevertheless, the West can not risk having more inter-ethnic wars in the region either because such wars can potentially have a destabilizing effect upon the pro-West capitols of Tbilisi and Baku, such wars can disrupt oil/gas flow to the West from the Caspian Sea region and may also serve to draw Russia back into the South Caucasus.

Thus, due to these geopolitical/economic factors, the West will not forcefully engage in efforts to undermine the Armenian state. It is important to note, however, that the West will not risk attempting a forceful regime change in Yerevan only as long as it believes that the Armenian state is militarily and politically powerful and has Russian support. Thus, it's conditional.

Nevertheless, the West will instead resort to blackmail, bribes and the promotion of internal strife within the Armenian Republic in an attempt to pry Yerevan away from Moscow and make it conform to its regional agenda.

The tools that will be used for such an attempt will undoubtedly be pro-West and Turk-tolerant politicians such as Levon Ter-Petrosian, the exploitation of internal sociological strife (Artsakhtsi versus Hayastantsi sentiments) and the deceptive/manipulative utilization of concepts such as liberty, justice and the American way...

As we have seen, the West is equipped with a vast array of weapons. If nations won't conform, they bomb them (Serbia and Iraq). Where bombs would not work, they use money/bribes (Central Asian republics and Arab nations in the Persian Gulf region). Where bombs and/or money do not work, they use the notion of democracy, human rights as well as western pop culture to soften the masses (Armenia). This, in essence, is western style Realpolitik.

After seeing the nature of Western politics, do we still have masses of idiots believing in the deceptive and destructive concepts of democracy, freedom, human rights, fair elections, etc, as preached by the West? I'm afraid recent developments have revealed that we do.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Here is a typical exchange...

"concerned" armenian, writing upon request or on demand or for salary is a long forsaken soviet intellectual propaganda method...what the people in Armenia call for is freedom, democracy, clean government and also...total uprooting of soviet propaganda and media manipulation methods...spamming all posts with the same hate message is one of them...

- Garo, 2008-03-28 12:20:30

Yes Garo, let's replace Soviet style propaganda and manipulations with Western style propaganda and manipulations... And in doing so, let's all bend over for the Turks and Azeris as well. Individuals like you are nothing but intellectual dwarfs. All you asswipes can do is blurt our shallow slogans like simple minded Cold War era rejects. Had your rhetoric not have been so dangerous for the Armenian state, I would have simple laughed at your pathetic faces. Since asswipes like you pose a real danger to the existence of the Armenian state, I will look forward to your complete eradication one way or another.

- Concerned Armenian, 2008-03-28 13:00:06

[Armanen]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Here is a typical exchange...

"concerned" armenian, writing upon request or on demand or for salary is a long forsaken soviet intellectual propaganda method...what the people in Armenia call for is freedom, democracy, clean government and also...total uprooting of soviet propaganda and media manipulation methods...spamming all posts with the same hate message is one of them...

- Garo, 2008-03-28 12:20:30

Yes Garo, let's replace Soviet propaganda and manipulations by Western propaganda and manipulations. And in doing so, let's all bend over for the Turks as well. Individuals like are are nothing but intellectual dwarfs. All you asswipes can do is blurt our shallow slogans. Had your rhetoric not have been so dangerous for the Armenian state, I would have laughed at your faces. Since asswipes like you pose a real danger to the existence of the Armenian state, I will look forward to your eradication one way or another.

- Concerned Armenian, 2008-03-28 13:00:06

Did you post this at hetq?

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Did you post this at hetq?

I'm sorry, I should have specified. It's from Armeninow: http://www.armenianow.com/?action=vi...D=1179&lng=eng


This is a comment I found posted about that character called John Hughes, the CIA agent from Alabama that runs ArmeniaNow:

Fuck you John Hughes. For many years many of us had many suspicions about you. Your actions during the past couple of years, especially during the past several months, have confirmed these suspicions. Next time I see your sorry ass sitting at a cafe in Yerevan you will get to 'meet' me, trust me. I suggest you keep your butt-ugly ass in California.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I am suspecting that one of us here wrote the following very well constructed comment. I want to post it here for security reasons because they will most likely delete it.

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Garo, why do you think Azerbaijan hasn't dared to attack us and get their lands back? Knowing that they have Turkey's support and United States helps them a great deal with military? Because Russia is with us. Russia is our biggest military supplier. Russia is helping us protect the borders in Karabagh today. We need Russia to survive in the region!!! This is mainly why Washington was trying to bring LTP to power in Armenia (and now seeing that they failed - is threatening to cut the funds to Armenia!). They wanted us to abandon Russia and befriend the Turks. They succeeded in doing so with Georgians.. And you know from history befriending the Turks almost cost us our entire nation. Lesson learned. People in Armenia are calling for freedom, yet once given 9 days of freedom to protest, we saw how they destroyed everything. Of course, only a small population of the entire country was protesting, so my comment goes to that small yet loud and violent croud who wants 'freedom': You proved us you don't deserve freedom. You talk about Deomocratic countries, name me one democratic country that stood aside and let people destroy the cities, put cars on fire, break into stores, steal, vandalize the town. Name me one! What the opposition did on March 1st proved us how much freedom they actually DO have and how they don't deserve ANY!

- AJ, 2008-03-28 15:43:34

Source: http://www.armenianow.com/?action=vi...g=eng#comments

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This is an exchange I had with a Panduxt:

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Dear Concerned Armenian, do me a favor and please read these two lines carefully:

(1) LTP is the first president of independent Armenia, under whose reign Armenia fought its sole victorios war of the past 1,000 years or so.

(2) Those who are being arrested/persecuted today (Union of War Veterans guys) were the fighters that made the victory possible.

Try repeating these lines a couple of times and let's talk again. Hopefully you will realize that "If Armenia is to be respected as a viable nation" these people should be treated differently and not the way you are suggesting. And for Christ's sake, please don't call anyone an idiot. Have you mom never told you that this is not a good thing to say to someone else who is older and more educated?

- Panduxt, 2008-03-28 17:48:00

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Panduxt, Artsakh was won in spite of Levon. During the early 90s, Armenian politicians did not have full control over the para-military forces fighting in Artsakh. The Armenian military gradually became a unified force under one command only in the mid-90s. The strategic Armenian town of Shushi was taken against Levon's strong wishes. Levon was amongst the last to find out that Armenians had taken Shushi. Levon's appeasement towards Turks and Westerners is well known. Why do you think CIA front offices like Radio Liberty and Armenainow are beating his drum? Levon's hate towards Artsakh Armenians is well know. Levon's hate towards Dashnaktsakans are well know. And the mere fact that the only superpower in the region, Russia, does not want Levon in power in Armenia is well know as well. Levon and his team of street whores - "Grzo," Alex Arzumanian, Nikol Pashinian, Manvel Grigorian - are a monsters, traitors and criminals that need to be hanged for their crimes against the Armenian state.

- Concerned Armenian, 2008-03-28 18:22:44

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Panduxt, I forgot to add.

The Yerkarpah members are supporting Levon today simply because during the past several years the nation's tax collection agency had been gradually eliminating their "tax exempt" status. The Yerkarpah leadership had not been paying taxes all these years and apparently this was beginning to change. Besides, what makes someone who merely fought in a war qualified to get involved in every aspect of politics? Nonetheless, the reality of the matter is - it's all about money. This crisis is a struggle over Armenia's limited financial resources. Artsakh Armenians were shrewed enough to take control over certain lucrative industries in Armenia and the native Armenians now want to wrestle it way from them by force. In a nut shell, this is what the whole sad and blood mess is about.

So, don't give me the shallow slogans of "freedom, democracy and human rights", especially when you have criminals like Levon-Ter Petrosian, Grzo, Alex Arzumanian, Nikol Pashinian and Manvel Grigorian representing you...

Regarding Sefilian: The man is a soldier, not a diplomat. What civilized nation on earth would tolerate anyone attempting to set up armed bands to overthrow government officials? His complaints that the authorities were planning to give Artsakh way were based on vicious rumors and hearsay, most probably started by foreign intelligence. No one in official Yerevan today is thinking such a thing. And Sefilian's support for Levon, who has openly said that Armenia has to make peace with Turks and Azeris clearly insinuating the abandoning of Artsakh and Armenian Genocide recognition, is quite revealing of Sefilian's less-than-good intentions. What's more, even his Dashnak comrades now admit that Sefilian is somewhat a delusional man and suffers from egomania. And I don't give a rats ass how old you are, how much money you have, or how much education you have. When I see "idiotic" or "treasonous" behavior, I will call it as is. Having said that, you sound like a teenager. Grow up.

- Concerned Armenian, 2008-03-28 18:57:31

Source: http://www.armenianow.com/?action=vi...g=eng#comments