Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

[londontsi]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

http://www.armtown.com/news/en/rfe/20100608/2065305/

PUTIN RULES OUT RUSSIAN PRESSURE ON ARMENIA, AZERBAIJAN

Russia will not put pressure on Armenia or Azerbaijan to hasten the resolution of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict and expects other mediating powers to be just as cautious, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said in Turkey on Tuesday.

“Only the two states, the two peoples can find mutually acceptable solutions and compromises in a practical dialogue with one another. Solving this kind of problems always requires a compromise acceptable to both sides,” Putin told a news conference after talks with his Turkish counterpart, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, held on the sidelines of a regional security summit in Istanbul.

“What is acceptable to Azerbaijan or Armenia?” he said. “Only they themselves can tell. All other participants of this [negotiating] process can only act as guarantors of the respect of elaborated agreements.”

“We don’t want anyone to think later on that we pressured one of the parties and achieved a solution to the problem that is unfair to somebody,” he added.

Visiting Turkey last month, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev likewise stressed that the onus is on Baku and Yerevan to work out a peaceful settlement based on mutual compromise.

Turkish officials had expressed hope ahead of Medvedev’s trip that Moscow will become more actively involved in Armenian-Azerbaijani peace talks. This raised fears in Armenia that the Russians may seek more Armenian concessions to Azerbaijan for the sake of their increasingly close relationship with Turkey.

The Turkish government regards a Karabakh settlement as a key precondition for implementing the Turkish-Armenian normalization agreements signed in October. Putin publicly rejected this linkage when he met Erdogan in Moscow earlier this year. President Serzh Sarkisian and other Armenian leaders hailed this stance.

The strained Turkish-Armenian relations featured large during Medvedev’s latest talks with Sarkisian that were held in the southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don last week. Sarkisian afterwards again blamed Ankara for the effective collapse of the normalization process and ruled out any Turkish mediation in the Karabakh peace process.

It was not clear if the Russian and Turkish premiers discussed the Armenian-Azerbaijani dispute on Tuesday. Erdogan made no mention of the issue at the ensuing news conference. He spoke only of “strengthening relations between Turkey and Russia in the whole region and the Caucasus in particular.”

[Haykakan]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

The Shahumian region of Karabakh still remains under Azeri control, and is an ancient Armenian land. Only if Azerbaijan gives back that region, that it would be acceptable to give it some land in return.

Such a land exchange would probably be a great idea if the two sides bargain rationaly.

[Haykakan]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Taking quotes out of context, discussing them in a different context and drawing conclusions based on that IS propaganda.



I'm sorry to say, but you're an idiot. Those lands were gotten because our warriors were able to get them. It takes blood to take lands, and it WILL take blood to give lands back.



This comment makes it clear that you are completely confused and have absolutely no respect for all those who gave their lives fighting in Karabagh. If you had a friend, or relative die during the war your entire outlook would be different. I suggest you go and try to understand why your ideas are based on nothing other than fear and weakness, and if Armenia were to adapt your way of thought it would be taken over by the Turks in no time.



NO, the lands were taken because our soldiers saw the opportune moment when the Azeris were completely demoralized, and took advantage of it by going on a swift offensive. Blood was shed, nonetheless, and only an IDIOT would suggest its ok to give lands back without blood.




NO, a winner giving concessions as a response to verbal threats is a major sign of weakness, and after Azeris take back those regions, which will effectively weaken the Karabagh defense lines, they will immediately attack and reclaim more land. Only a sheep would willingly walk into the butchers hands knowing full well death is certain, but still hope for the best nonetheless. Armenia cannot afford be a sheep.



There is no chance of any deals that include concessions, be sure of that. Whatever the deals may be, in the end they will not be carried out. Every single party to the conflict and the negotiations knows full well that the only way Azeris will get land back is through blood.



There can be no safety for the population of Kharabagh if Armenia gives in to the Azeris and gives back land based on merely speculation of war. That would be a major sign of weakness and will only enhance the spirit of the Azeris. It would be a major victory for them, and a major loss for us. That's not a very comfortable position for the Karabagh people to be in.



If anything, land concessions will get us the opposite of security. Your mentality is that of a scared, wimpy teenage kid who's afraid of getting in a fight so he easily succumbs to verbal threats. The rest of us, who are true patriots are ready to die just to show the Azeri F&cks that nobody dares to F&ck with us without looking at certain death.

Levon i really wish you would either think befor you post stuff or just plain stfu. Your errors miiror those of many others here and have been and will be proven wrong all over again just like the protocals and the sarkisian situation. What you dont see and dont understand is that this is not just up to Armenia and azeris. There are greater powers involved here and non bigger then Russia. Russia will pretty much dictate this situation just as it has for a long time done so. There would have been a war already if it was not for Russian invasion of Georgia. The Russians warned the Azeris of restarting hostilities at the time and scared them off from starting another war. It is good and well to fight for and defend your country but those regions are not our country and are not even populated by our people nor anyone else for that matter. People fight for what is right, to save their own lives or the ones of their loved ones-countrymen... this is the reason we won in kharabagh. Those regions surrounding kharabagh are bargaining chips intended to be used as such and i have no problem with the Armenian government doing just that.

[Davo88]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

The Shahumian region of Karabakh still remains under Azeri control, and is an ancient Armenian land. Only if Azerbaijan gives back that region, that it would be acceptable to give it some land in return.

[levon]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

How is it propoganda when they are using quotes which were said by the leaders of the dashnak party?

Taking quotes out of context, discussing them in a different context and drawing conclusions based on that IS propaganda.

As for the lands surrounding Artsagh, those lands were gotten so we can use them as bargaining chips for future negotiations.

I'm sorry to say, but you're an idiot. Those lands were gotten because our warriors were able to get them. It takes blood to take lands, and it WILL take blood to give lands back.

Those lands were never part of Armenia to begin with and do not have any Armenian indegenous populations. Sure some Armenians did populate some of those lands after the war but those never were Armenian lands

This comment makes it clear that you are completely confused and have absolutely no respect for all those who gave their lives fighting in Karabagh. If you had a friend, or relative die during the war your entire outlook would be different. I suggest you go and try to understand why your ideas are based on nothing other than fear and weakness, and if Armenia were to adapt your way of thought it would be taken over by the Turks in no time.

The plan was all along to use these lands as bargaining chips in a final peace settlement where some of the territories are returned to the Azeris for the freedom of kharabagh and its physical connection to Armenia.

NO, the lands were taken because our soldiers saw the opportune moment when the Azeris were completely demoralized, and took advantage of it by going on a swift offensive. Blood was shed, nonetheless, and only an IDIOT would suggest its ok to give lands back without blood.

if it brings peace and security to the people living in Kharabagh then giving up a couple of unpopulated regions is just fine.

NO, a winner giving concessions as a response to verbal threats is a major sign of weakness, and after Azeris take back those regions, which will effectively weaken the Karabagh defense lines, they will immediately attack and reclaim more land. Only a sheep would willingly walk into the butchers hands knowing full well death is certain, but still hope for the best nonetheless. Armenia cannot afford be a sheep.

I am sure that a deal has been struck between Armenia, Kharabagh, Russia and the Azeris by now, the details of which we do not yet know and that the power behind it is Russia.

There is no chance of any deals that include concessions, be sure of that. Whatever the deals may be, in the end they will not be carried out. Every single party to the conflict and the negotiations knows full well that the only way Azeris will get land back is through blood.

For the Armenian side the important things are to preserve and provide safety for the population of kharabagh which will rule itself or from Hayastan, to provide enoughf land for the people of kharabagh to live and grow, and to maintain a secure connection to Armenia proper.

There can be no safety for the population of Kharabagh if Armenia gives in to the Azeris and gives back land based on merely speculation of war. That would be a major sign of weakness and will only enhance the spirit of the Azeris. It would be a major victory for them, and a major loss for us. That's not a very comfortable position for the Karabagh people to be in.

I am sure we will get this in return for the land consessions we make otherwise no consessions will be made.

If anything, land concessions will get us the opposite of security. Your mentality is that of a scared, wimpy teenage kid who's afraid of getting in a fight so he easily succumbs to verbal threats. The rest of us, who are true patriots are ready to die just to show the Azeri F&cks that nobody dares to F&ck with us without looking at certain death.

[Haykakan]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

How is it propoganda when they are using quotes which were said by the leaders of the dashnak party? As for the lands surrounding Artsagh, those lands were gotten so we can use them as bargaining chips for future negotiations. Those lands were never part of Armenia to begin with and do not have any Armenian indegenous populations. Sure some Armenians did populate some of those lands after the war but those never were Armenian lands (Unless you go back to the days of tigran the great when even Syria was ours). The plan was all along to use these lands as bargaining chips in a final peace settlement where some of the territories are returned to the Azeris for the freedom of kharabagh and its physical connection to Armenia. The dashnaks are not the only ones who dont want to return lands but the alternative is another war which neither hayastan nor kharabagh nor the azeris nor the international community want. I have no issues with taking lands from the turcks because they have taken plenty from us which was never rightfuly theirs but if it brings peace and security to the people living in Kharabagh then giving up a couple of unpopulated regions is just fine. I am sure that a deal has been struck between Armenia, Kharabagh, Russia and the Azeris by now, the details of which we do not yet know and that the power behind it is Russia. For the Armenian side the important things are to preserve and provide safety for the population of kharabagh which will rule itself or from Hayastan, to provide enoughf land for the people of kharabagh to live and grow, and to maintain a secure connection to Armenia proper. I am sure we will get this in return for the land consessions we make otherwise no consessions will be made.

[levon]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Here is another idiotic plan. This one pretty much proves that the dashnaks are agents of the west in Armenia.

"ARF PREPARES THE POWER'S PATH
NAIRA HAYRUMYAN

Lragir.am
08/06/10

TO WITHDRAW

ARF Dashnaktsutyun declared its priority the change of power in
Armenia. In addition, though it was stated that the party will be
getting ready for regular elections, it was specially underlined that
a social revolt may happen in the country. It is also noteworthy
that Dashnaktsutyun stated that Armenia is forced unfavorable for
us peace in the NKR issue, and if the power agrees with such peace,
it will have to answer.

Combining these two statements, we can conclude that yesterday ARF
presented one of the possible scenarios of the development of events
in Armenia and in the region. The scenario is the following: if the
pressure by Russia or by anyone else increases reaching dangerous
limits, in the country, a social revolt by the ARF will happen, a
shift of power will take place and the Dashnaks, which are perceived
in the world as a party of radical nationalistic character, will take
the wheel of the country in their hands. This will enable to open
a bloodless path for the withdrawal of the current power, stopping
unfavorable for us settlement process and creating a new status quo in
the region. The new status quo will not be based on the expectations
of concessions by Armenia, but on the need to recognize the borders
established after the war.

When this scenario is accomplished can be only guessed, since,
"silence diplomacy" in the Karabakh issue is "spinning now with might
and main". In August, a visit of the Russian president to Armenia
is outlined, who, according to Zhamanak daily, will bring the plan
of the settlement including the surrender of three regions-Aghdam,
Fizuli and Kelbadjar. Since a "voluntary" agreement with this scenario
by Armenia is impossible, it is supposed that Baku may initiate a
small war. In this connection, the U.S. president Barack Obama wrote a
special letter to Ilham Aliyev and urged him to refrain from war. The
only peaceful scenario is left-to persuade Serge Sargsyan. And here
appears on the stage ARF Dashnaktsutyun with its social revolt."

This article states that the dashnaks are ready to cause social upheaval and take power. This sounds like a dillusional drunk yapping away. In the previous article they said they were gona take power through elections which anyone with half a brain knows wont happen and now they claim they will take power through social upheaval which again they cannot do. So like how many plans do these guys have and which leader is in charge? They are saying two different things from the same party, yeh you know that party that gets every call wrong. These idiots are again going against russia and siding with the usa. It is obvious they dont learn from their mistakes and again they are fully prepared for the people of Armenia to suffer the consequences of their time honored lunacy. The last time Armenia chose the usa instead of russia we almost lost our country with the likes of LTP taking us to the gates of hell. The Armenians of Armenia do not want to go there again and they wont. I dont think a party can be this stupid thus i am starting to believe the dashnaks do not work for the best interest of Armenia and would rather pursue party goals vs national ones. And befor the dashnaks here go gaga over what i wrote just read what these articles say again.

Damn, the idiot who wrote this article needs to go back to school and learn some basic writing skills. Her writing style is completely ill-composed, unprofessional and without proper continuum between sentences and ideas.

Oh, wait, that's just the last part of the post, which appears to be written by the person whom I just quoted.

The article is crap, it's just propaganda directed towards hurting the dashnaks. If there were any possibility of giving back parts of Karabakh, not just the Dashnaks, but all the others as well will organize an upheaval. This article simply aims to paint Dashnaks in a negative light, which, ironically, is what Turks aim to do with their propaganda to divide the diaspora from the homeland.

[Muhaha]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

I can't understand anything in that article...are they saying they'll protest and cause upheaval if the current party proposes giving up some territories of Artsakh? If so, that actually sounds like the right thing to do.....

[Haykakan]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Here is another idiotic plan. This one pretty much proves that the dashnaks are agents of the west in Armenia.

"ARF PREPARES THE POWER'S PATH
NAIRA HAYRUMYAN

Lragir.am
08/06/10

TO WITHDRAW

ARF Dashnaktsutyun declared its priority the change of power in
Armenia. In addition, though it was stated that the party will be
getting ready for regular elections, it was specially underlined that
a social revolt may happen in the country. It is also noteworthy
that Dashnaktsutyun stated that Armenia is forced unfavorable for
us peace in the NKR issue, and if the power agrees with such peace,
it will have to answer.

Combining these two statements, we can conclude that yesterday ARF
presented one of the possible scenarios of the development of events
in Armenia and in the region. The scenario is the following: if the
pressure by Russia or by anyone else increases reaching dangerous
limits, in the country, a social revolt by the ARF will happen, a
shift of power will take place and the Dashnaks, which are perceived
in the world as a party of radical nationalistic character, will take
the wheel of the country in their hands. This will enable to open
a bloodless path for the withdrawal of the current power, stopping
unfavorable for us settlement process and creating a new status quo in
the region. The new status quo will not be based on the expectations
of concessions by Armenia, but on the need to recognize the borders
established after the war.

When this scenario is accomplished can be only guessed, since,
"silence diplomacy" in the Karabakh issue is "spinning now with might
and main". In August, a visit of the Russian president to Armenia
is outlined, who, according to Zhamanak daily, will bring the plan
of the settlement including the surrender of three regions-Aghdam,
Fizuli and Kelbadjar. Since a "voluntary" agreement with this scenario
by Armenia is impossible, it is supposed that Baku may initiate a
small war. In this connection, the U.S. president Barack Obama wrote a
special letter to Ilham Aliyev and urged him to refrain from war. The
only peaceful scenario is left-to persuade Serge Sargsyan. And here
appears on the stage ARF Dashnaktsutyun with its social revolt."

This article states that the dashnaks are ready to cause social upheaval and take power. This sounds like a dillusional drunk yapping away. In the previous article they said they were gona take power through elections which anyone with half a brain knows wont happen and now they claim they will take power through social upheaval which again they cannot do. So like how many plans do these guys have and which leader is in charge? They are saying two different things from the same party, yeh you know that party that gets every call wrong. These idiots are again going against russia and siding with the usa. It is obvious they dont learn from their mistakes and again they are fully prepared for the people of Armenia to suffer the consequences of their time honored lunacy. The last time Armenia chose the usa instead of russia we almost lost our country with the likes of LTP taking us to the gates of hell. The Armenians of Armenia do not want to go there again and they wont. I dont think a party can be this stupid thus i am starting to believe the dashnaks do not work for the best interest of Armenia and would rather pursue party goals vs national ones. And befor the dashnaks here go gaga over what i wrote just read what these articles say again.

[Haykakan]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Here is some more chest pounding by the dashnaks.

ARF PRIORITIZES REGIME CHANGE AT 15TH SUPREME ASSEMBLY

Asbarez
Monday, June 7th, 2010

ARF Supreme Council of Armenia Chairman Armen Rustamian

YEREVAN (ARF Press Service)-The Armenian Revolutionary Federation
concluded its 15th Supreme Assembly of Armenia on Sunday with the
election of a new ARF Supreme Council of Armenia to govern the
pan-national political parties operations in Armenia for the next
two years. The Assembly, which convened Friday in Aghveran, issued a
statement emphasizing the need for regime change and highlighting the
party's priorities in Armenia. The statement specifically stressed
the need for the restoration of national ideals within Armenia's
foreign policy, the establishment of social justice, protection of
civil rights and the need to form a new government.

At the conclusion, a nine-person council to oversee the party's
operations in Armenia was elected comprised of the following: Hayrapet
Babayan, Arsen Hambardzumyan, Tatul Harutyunyan, Michael Manukyan,
Ara Nranian, Armen Rustamian, Spartak Seyranian, Simon Simonian and
Hrach Tadevosyan. Rustamian was re-elected to chair the body.

During a press conference Monday, Rustamian emphasized that regime
change was the only way out of the current social and political
quagmire in Armenia. "We want to change the government by means of
elections. That is the way to go. Regime change through uprising is
always dangerous and harmful, especially given that Armenia and the
Armenians now face an unfinished war," said Rustamian.

He also announced that during the next presidential elections the
ARF will nominate its own candidate. "If Armenians had elected [ARF
candidate] Vahan Hovhannesian president in 2008 we would be living
in a different Armenia now," explained Rustamian.

"Obviously, the incumbent Armenian authorities are unable to solve
topical problems. The country needs a new regime, which would be
capable of resolving problems," said Rustamian. In this context, he
said, the ARF is the only force capable of solving existing problems.

"The time comes when changing the ruling regime becomes a matter of
national security."

Asked why the ARF does not demand President Serzh Sarkisian's
resignation if the party is dissatisfied with his policies, Rustamian
responded: "You are right. How long can we give the president new
chances? It is enough. We have closed our eyes to too many things
and given him many chances. They should not test the ARF's patience
and prudence."

The ARF statement contains a long of list of socioeconomic and
political problems facing Armenia, including a culture of electoral
fraud, government abuse and widespread poverty.

"Today the state is not on the side of its citizens," said Rustamian.

"Unfortunately, we have two types of states: One caters to the
interests of a minority-a privileged class-while the other has
abandoned its citizens."

"Social discontent has never reached such a peak and the social
situation has never been so difficult. I hope that the authorities
realize this as well," added Rustamian, who predicted that if these
conditions persist, a social uprising could take place in the country.

The ARF leader said that without necessary reforms, all future
elections will worsen the country's already tenuous situation. He
said the inability of the people to form a power base through free
expression has caused the current impasse.

Rustamian also didn't rule out early elections-both presidential
and parliamentary. "A force-majeure situation can always arise in
a country like ours, and any political force respecting itself must
always be prepared for such scenarios."

"During elections the authorities themselves corrupt the people
and then they seek great achievements. It is impossible," explained
Rustamian.


The part that makes me laugh is "he said, the ARF is the only force capable of solving existing problems"
Ok what problem has the ARF solved for Armenia that allows him to make such a claim? This guy is calling for regime change through elections but he knows full well that is not gona happen. And what is it exactly that this clown is so "fed up with"? He supported Kocharian and his oligarchs and nothing has changed in that regard so whats with the outrage? This president atleast did some tax reform and antigraft things which is more then any government backed by the dashnaks has ever done. I am against capitalism myself and a national socialist party would be a natural fit for a person such as myself but the utter ignorence of this party is jawdropping. They incite the entire diaspora against the president because they are too dumb to realize that there is a game being played, then they realize that a game is being played when the game is over and praise the president, then they stab him in the back and advertise for regime change. Just because the dashnaks underwent a regime change doesnt mean everyone else should follow suite. I seriously question the competentce of the rulers of this party who hardly do anything useful and are only good at pounding their chests and waiving flags. You know they kind of remind me of the idiotic american "patriots" who believed if they waive enough flags and attack enough countries then the economy will turn around and everything will be ok. Because of these fools the slick oligarcks of America wrote up the "patriot act" and took all rights away from these flag waiving idiots who pushed the act through the legislature like it was gona get them a free case of beer. We dont need idiots like these in Hayastan. It is fine and dandy to critisize the government but you have been part of the government a long time and what exactly did you get done then? It is great that the dashnak is willing to fight but it is even more important for a man to be able to think. In my opinion it is the dashnaks who need a regime change for they do not miss a single opportunity to completly misunderstand what is going down on the world stage. How come people like me and others here understand some basic principles of foreign relations and the dashnaks don't? How come we can see a game for what it is and the dashnaks don't? How come they have been in the government since kocharian took over yet have done absolutly nothing useful for Armenia on their own? They supported the oligarchs even though it is against their parties principles to do so all these years and what exactly changed now? Now they want to make changes through elections knowing full well that elections are rigged and even if the people did want to vote for them (which they dont) they still couldnt accomplish their goals. So what is the point of this organization in Armenias government? All they do is pointless speeches designed to antagonize the diaspora against Armenia. If there was ever a need for regime change it is in the party of the dashnaks but the problem is that they dont even know it.