Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread
Tom-- I don't see where I contradict what you're saying about the dialects, I'm saying people are free to speak however they want-- my only point was changing the dictionary to encompass everyone's slang is not a good idea.
Yerazhishda-- No problem.
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The Western Armenian Language Thread
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Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread
Please, lets keep this thread on track...there is another thread discussing the phonology, morphology, syntax and overall linguistic development of Armenian. This thread is meant to aid in answering common (and not so common) grammar questions about Western Armenian as well as learning the language in general.
Thanks,
yerazhishda
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Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread
I beleive Armenian, like all languages, is in a constant state of flux and will continue to evolve and take lone words, just as other contemporary languages do.
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Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread
Originally posted by ArmSurvival View PostUsing the English model for Armenian doesn't make sense. Armenian put it well when he said they incorporated all these foreign words in English because it was a very basic and bland language-- there is no need to do so with Armenian, and we shouldn't corrupt the official language just because some people are too lazy (or ashamed, or not able, etc etc) to learn it properly.
Which is more of a reason why I wouldn't want to change the official language to accelerate this epidemic of ignorance. I don't speak "academic Armenian", I speak Armenian, as do many others. People like me are just conscious of the foreign words we use.
If you want to delude yourself into thinking you're speaking Armenian by using foreign words, then go ahead-- don't change the dictionary and ruin it for the rest of us.
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Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread
Originally posted by Federate View PostԱսոնք քիչ մը դժուար է անգլերէն թարգմանել։ Ամէն նախադասութեան հետ կապ ունի՝
Կամ - կանք is usually used to include oneself in something in the present. Կամ being the singular first person and կանք being the plural first person. Same goes with կաս - կանք which is 2nd person singular and plural respectively. The other four are the same thing except it's in the past tense. Also to note that all of the above except կայ կան կար եւ կային are used mostly in dialogue.
An example of a scenario where you would use կամ.
Person A has a car and is going to drive 3 people home. He says «Լաւ, միայն քեզի եւ երկու ընկերներուդ տուն պիտի հասցնե՞մ։» Then all of a sudden, another guy yells out from the distance, in a rush, «Չէ, ես ալ կամ։». What this guy does is that he points out that in addition to the 3 people, he's gonna come too.
EXCEPTION for կամ՝
Կամ can also mean "or". For example, «Ես կամ Երաժիշտան։» (Me or Yerazhishda). In fact, it's mostly used this way.
Could the guy have also said «Ես ալ հոս եմ:» instead of «ես ալ կամ:» Do those two statements have a similar meaning?
Hope I was clear
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Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread
Originally posted by TomServoThey should have been put in long ago. Aren't Sayat-Nova's poems and songs a melange (oops) of Armenian, Persian, Georgian, and Turkish? What about this Abovian poem?
Using the English model for Armenian doesn't make sense. Armenian put it well when he said they incorporated all these foreign words in English because it was a very basic and bland language-- there is no need to do so with Armenian, and we shouldn't corrupt the official language just because some people are too lazy (or ashamed, or not able, etc etc) to learn it properly.
Originally posted by TomServoYou can go ahead and speak academic Armenian -- but not many others are going to join you. Not even people in Armenia.
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Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread
Originally posted by ArmSurvival View PostIf we start putting foreign words for which we already have an equivalent in Armenian dictionaries, then a significant portion of our dictionary would be Turkish words. Chojukh instead of yerekha, zeitun instead of tsitabdugh, chakhmakh instead of gaydzkar. It would also be infused with English words... television instead of heradesil, telephone instead of herakhos, computer instead of hamagarkich, etc...
Originally posted by ArmSurvivalDo you really want our language to be slowly morphed into the sick sh*t you hear in the average Bolsahye household? Or to be full of Arabic or English words? Մայ չոճուխըս այսօր մարքեթ գնաց եւ հետը բերաւ չախմախ մը եւ մէկ տոպրակ զեյդուն: Թեզէ խնցորները ֆորկաթ ըրաւ, բայց ից օքեյ: Honestly, in the long run it will turn our language into a retarded canvas of international phrases, and all in the name of convenience.
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Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread
I have always been taught that the only time to use ն rather than ը as the definite article on a word ending in a consonant is before եմ, ես, է etc. (ie. before any of the auxiliary 'to be' verbs) or before էլ (EA)/ալ (WA). However, I regularly see it used at the end of words ending in consonants before any other word beginning with a vowel. A case in point would be the Njdeh quote that Armenian uses at the end of his posts: <<Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց...>>
So, what I'm asking is this: Is what I was taught correct, or can a ն be used as the definite article on a word ending in a consonant as long as it precedes a word (any word) beginning with a vowel?
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Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread
Originally posted by yerazhishda View PostՈւրիշ հարց մը ունիմ Արեւմտահայախօսներու համար - այս բառերը ի՞նչ կը որոշեն անգլերէնով:
կամ - կանք
կաս - կաք
կայ (there is) - կան (there are)
եւ ալ նմանապէս...
կայի - կայինք
կայիր - կայիք
կար (there was) - կային (there were)
Շնորհակալութիւն ձեր օրինակներու եւ պատասխաներու համար:
Կամ - կանք is usually used to include oneself in something in the present. Կամ being the singular first person and կանք being the plural first person. Same goes with կաս - կանք which is 2nd person singular and plural respectively. The other four are the same thing except it's in the past tense. Also to note that all of the above except կայ կան կար եւ կային are used mostly in dialogue.
An example of a scenario where you would use կամ.
Person A has a car and is going to drive 3 people home. He says «Լաւ, միայն քեզի եւ երկու ընկերներուդ տուն պիտի հասցնե՞մ։» Then all of a sudden, another guy yells out from the distance, in a rush, «Չէ, ես ալ կամ։». What this guy does is that he points out that in addition to the 3 people, he's gonna come too.
EXCEPTION for կամ՝
Կամ can also mean "or". For example, «Ես կամ Երաժիշտան։» (Me or Yerazhishda). In fact, it's mostly used this way.
Hope I was clear
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Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread
Originally posted by TomServo View PostAnd the English equivalent of abattoir is slaughterhouse. Yet abattoir is found in English language dictionaries? Why shouldn't teze?
What made English a standard for languages? A majority of English words, similar to Turkish and Russia, are not "English" per se. Since English (the language of Germanic peasants from Europe) proved to be a inferior language during the middle ages, vast amounts of Latin, French, Spanish and Greeks words were adopted into the language to embellish it. Today, a vast majority of words in the English language that are comprised of two or more syllables are non-English in origin. This is not a sin, this is simply the nature of their national/cultural development. Armenians, on the other hand, have had a rich/expressive language that has strongly resisted foreign influences. Since Armenia's adoption of Christianity 'very' few foreign words have crept into the Armenian language. Due to the flexibility and richness of the Armenian language we Armenians simply have not had the 'need' to adopt foreign words into our vocabulary. When a new word is needed the Armenian language, unlike English, is fully capable of creating one to fulfill the need. It is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that common words that have existed in the Armenian language for thousands of years can or should be supplemented by foreign words, especially ones taken from Turkic/Islamic societies.
So, what I'm saying here is don't xxxx with the nature/character/value of our national heritage just because you and your family (similar to a majority of Armenians without an Armenian education - the majority of Armenians) are accustomed to polluting the Armenian language. Instead of expecting your heritage to be lowered to your level why don't you instead try raising to its level...
PS: Relatively speaking, I speak Armenian quite well. However, when it comes to speaking/writing "grakan hayeren" - I admit, I'm very weak. This does not mean, however, that I expect the standards of the Armenian language to be lowered to 'my' level, instead I do my very best to speak (or write if need be) my native language.
This is called having pride in your heritage.
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