Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Are you talking about women in Armenia or Armenian women everywhere? Armenian women in the US enjoy a number of the freedoms and powers offered to them thanks to the womens movement in general (in the west). Of course there are still those who may still be handicapped by traditional mindsets in their households, but that is very quickly evaporating away. In Armenia itself, I don't know.

What are you talking about? The women's movement has further enslaved women... before their responsibilities were mainly taking care of the household and children during their child rearing years. Now they have to juggle work, daycare, household, run errands, etc. The women's movement was a clever way for society to disregard the work that goes into raising children by not associating a monetary value to it. I see this especially in the US where women don't even have the right for extended maternity leave and have to return to work in a short period of time.

[Sako]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

I am Armenian and your assumptions are wrong, and I'm not basing my views on a handful of cases. I understand why it may offend you, but that's how it appears to me and that's what I think.
Armenian woman do not "sweep a man off his feet" as easily and as often as you seem to think, they simply have an advantage when it comes to Armenian men, but that should not be attributed to their charms.

I think it's time I step in. Listen Kattie, first off, I'm a pure Armenian brother born here in Armenia. I've lived in India for ten years, in America for five, and another five here in Armenia so I've met almost every type of person in my life and I understand your confusion and/or way of thinking. I've answered these types of questions on more occasions then I can remember but I'll try to keep this short.

I don't know where you get your views from but their wrong mostly. In certain respects, your right, Armenian women aren't American girls (thank God) but they aren't what you think they are either. They aren't oppressed. They simply have boundaries. They don't get down with every guy around the block, they don't have hundreds of "boyfriends", they don't dis their families, etc. In America, girls go with the "I'm free, I can do whatever the xxxx I want" way of life and that's why, you can see ten year olds having sex around the corner and then going to school and letting their classmates know how "cool" it felt. Armenian girls have standards. Armenian girls have boundaries. That doesn't make them oppressed. That makes them more appealing, more respectful, and more of a women then a xxxxx. I'm not saying all our girls are perfect, there are women that feel down and are disrespected or don't act right at times but you can see this in every country.

In general though, Armenian girls are very serious, study very hard (something American girls need to learn how to do), go to parties, and do stuff girls normally do. They don't live in the dark ages. People from abroad come to Yerevan, get married, and leave for crying out loud. Why? Because Hay akhchiku ... AKHCHIKA ... vochte kats.

And regarding whether or not Armenian girls are attractive or not. Haha, honey, let me put it this way. Armenian girls were PRIZED in the past and are still very respected (and still prized, believe it or not). They can make any man turn around with one look and I wouldn't trade them for any lass in the world. They are hard working, have great taste when it comes to fashion, keep a family together, set an example for their children, are simply gorgeous, are very loving and emotional, and have very high standards. What's missing??? I can keep goin on and on. Western girls are just ... CHICK's ... compared to our girls.

Are you talking about women in Armenia or Armenian women everywhere? Armenian women in the US enjoy a number of the freedoms and powers offered to them thanks to the womens movement in general (in the west). Of course there are still those who may still be handicapped by traditional mindsets in their households, but that is very quickly evaporating away. In Armenia itself, I don't know.

The reason America is xxxxed today is because it doesn't have any mindsets at all except FREEDOM. What the xxxx is that? I don't appreciate how people look down at our traditions and/or way of living. What's wrong with them?!?!?

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

I'm not familiar with the culture of this forum, but I have noticed that issues of importance to Armenian women are seldom discussed.

I think that Armenian women are "handicapped" when compared to women of other cultures, not all cultures. For instance, Armenian women are forced to kill the little charmer in them and end up unlearning how to seduce and/or feel guilty about it. A form of excision? Sadly, some compensate for the loss use their body and/or a behavior with sexual connotations to charm and seduce, as I see it charm has nothing to do with body or sex. Others become easy victims of the first boy who does the clown and promises them the moon.

There's also domestic violence and/or its milder form i.e. "silencing" in one way or another those who dare to stand up for themselves.

The worse part is that I don't think that the situation changed much, and many young girls are still victim of the same oppressive values.
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Would you go to a virulent pro-Islamic forum and expect to get a realistic reply about the position of women in Islamic society. Probably not. So be equally realistic about the chances of getting a realistic reply here.

Within families, sections of diaspora societies tend to be even stricter in their social taboos than in their homelands - some people seem to get more fanatical the more distant they are from the source of their fanaticism - whereas other sections of the very same diaspora will tend to go out of their way to loose the more negative aspects of their culture, while still retaining and cherishing the best bits. In this forum, it is mostly the former type.

Nor are there many Armenians from Armenia here, and I don't recall ever seeing any female Armenians from ROA on this forum. But there is plenty of data online about the oppressed status of many women in Armenia (along with plenty about the oppressed status of many Armenians in ROA regardless of their sex).

BTW, I think it was this forum, but I remember one Armenian male poster who got really rabidly angry when he found out that his (Armenian) girlfriend was also posting in the same forum. She was told by her boyfrend not to post any more, and left a message to that effect (or he left it). Anyone remember that incident?

[Sako]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Nor are there many Armenians from Armenia here

Speak for your small self, Mr. Kibbles...

[Anoush]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

What a nice article you put it out Saco jan on behalf of Armenian women. That's great! I must add that the majority of our women have been the pride and joy of our nation and they gather the whole family around them in harmony, in dignity and in peace. They are excellent nurturing mothers and loving spouses.

Now about our Armenian men, who have been very good breadwinners, family figures and proud fathers. Proud to keep their families in good standing and seeing that their children are safe and are not living promiscuous lives; but staying good and descent. That their children are doing well in school. Armenian fathers are very protective towards their offsprings, they are loving papas and support their children and love them very much. Some unfortunately I heard in Armenia who drink and then they hurt their wives at times; but I hope and hope that it has subsided and it's in the minority cases. However in general, Armenian men are very protective and good family providers and fathers.

Btw; forgive me for also speaking about our Armenian men in here when the subject was about our women. However I was compelled to also speak about our mighty Armenian men.

[Kattie]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Thanks for the replies, I will reply when I can in the order they were posted.

This is a very important topic with posts.

This is a very important post with words. :sarcastic:
I'm charmed by the eloquence and creativity of your reply.

Are you talking about women in Armenia or Armenian women everywhere? Armenian women in the US enjoy a number of the freedoms and powers offered to them thanks to the womens movement in general (in the west). Of course there are still those who may still be handicapped by traditional mindsets in their households, but that is very quickly evaporating away. In Armenia itself, I don't know.

I've known Armenians both from Armenia and different parts of the diaspora, and I have in mind what is considered as the traditional Armenian woman. It is true that the situation is a bit different in each community, and what I said may apply more to some and less to others.
We seem to agree except that I don't think that it's "evaporating away" that quickly, but that is subjective.

When you come back, please tell us exactly why you are handicapped, or feel you're in danger of being, especially in US.

What do you mean by being in danger? I just said handicapped, and gave an example of a handicap i.e. learning to oppress our natural inclination to charm. Just watch how naturally little girls charm, and how they are taught or forced to unlearn it as they grow.
The Armenian couple is mainly based on the idea of building an Armenian family, and less on two individuals who are charmed by each other and would like to build a future together. One may argue that the former means stronger foundations, but that is a different discussion and the two are not mutually exclusive. In societies where Armenians are directly exposed to other cultures, the traditional concept of the Armenian couple becomes vulnerable because insufficient to guarantee the longevity of the couple. I don't shy away from responsibilities, but a sense of responsibilities is not always enough to guarantee the longevity of a relationship, partners should not take each other for granted and that's where charm comes in. I don't have in mind particular charms, and it's more about charming.
Of course, I neither meant that only women should give and nor that it is specific to Armenians, but all is relative and Armenians have their peculiarities.

Offend? Haha! I do not position my intensity at a state of mind that is blinded to perceive the ethics of humanity as a whole, rather just pinning down the Armenian woman.

I'm glad to hear that it did not offend

Just because your genes have failed to detain such a fortune, that doesn’t mean an actual Armenian woman isn’t able to grasp the psyche of a man by her exquisite trail of charisma.

When I read your posts and look at the rabiz girl with cheesy outfit and looks in your avatar, I can't help myself wondering how "exquisite" that "trail of charisma" would seem to me?

Since when do women "sweep a man off his feet"?

Please ask the question to the person who said so, I was simply quoting her.

If you're talking about attracting the pu$$y whipped westernized man then this whole post is useless, lol.

The answer to your question was in my first post. I said: Sadly, some compensate for the loss use their body and/or a behavior with sexual connotations to charm and seduce, as I see it charm has nothing to do with body or sex.

[Gavur]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

What do you mean by being in danger? I just said handicapped, and gave an example of a handicap i.e. learning to oppress our natural inclination to charm. Just watch how naturally little girls charm, and how they are taught or forced to unlearn it as they grow.
The Armenian couple is mainly based on the idea of building an Armenian family, and less on two individuals who are charmed by each other and would like to build a future together. One may argue that the former means stronger foundations, but that is a different discussion and the two are not mutually exclusive. In societies where Armenians are directly exposed to other cultures, the traditional concept of the Armenian couple becomes vulnerable because insufficient to guarantee the longevity of the couple. I don't shy away from responsibilities, but a sense of responsibilities is not always enough to guarantee the longevity of a relationship, partners should not take each other for granted and that's where charm comes in. I don't have in mind particular charms, and it's more about charming.
Of course, I neither meant that only women should give and nor that it is specific to Armenians, but all is relative and Armenians have their peculiarities.

I like that word you used "Charm" that's basically what lovingly married couples do on a daily basis, and yes, it does take two to tango, and no Armenian woman don't have to lose it if they balance of it mixed in with healthy self-esteem.

[iFemale]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

When I read your posts and look at the rabiz girl with cheesy outfit and looks in your avatar, I can't help myself wondering how "exquisite" that "trail of charisma" would seem to me?

It would never appear to you, nor was it intended for you. Clearly, you validate your rank of “brainpower” by measuring up my avatar with my posts. Oh, now that’s exquisite! Exquisitely unique and unimaginable…or is it? And of course it would seem “rabiz” to you. I should realize that you exist spaced out from the crowd and are guided by your conscientious apathy that gives meaning and direction to your life. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to slip on my pair of Bebe short-shorts, position my Prada shades at the tip of my nose, hop into my Mercedes CLS55Amg, and speed to the Armenian supermarket so that I can buy me some authentic saline sunflower seeds in order to spew out on the foreheads of everyone else who isn’t rabiz.

[Lucin]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Why do you guys get all defensive? What she is implying is not that far off the reality, at least for a good proportion of Armenian women… I believe the image is not quite as 'vartaguyn' as you may want to see... and we need to discuss similar topics pertaining our ailments more openly. So I agree with her message but disagree with the generalization.

The Armenian couple is mainly based on the idea of building an Armenian family, and less on two individuals who are charmed by each other and would like to build a future together...

I agree. Could this also probably be a reason (one of the reasons) why a couple may begin to stray after a while?

I said: Sadly, some compensate for the loss use their body and/or a behavior with sexual connotations to charm and seduce, as I see it charm has nothing to do with body or sex.

Can you define 'charm' please?

[hipeter924]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

I'm not familiar with the culture of this forum, but I have noticed that issues of importance to Armenian women are seldom discussed.

I think that Armenian women are "handicapped" when compared to women of other cultures, not all cultures. For instance, Armenian women are forced to kill the little charmer in them and end up unlearning how to seduce and/or feel guilty about it. A form of excision? Sadly, some compensate for the loss use their body and/or a behavior with sexual connotations to charm and seduce, as I see it charm has nothing to do with body or sex. Others become easy victims of the first boy who does the clown and promises them the moon.

There's also domestic violence and/or its milder form i.e. "silencing" in one way or another those who dare to stand up for themselves.

The worse part is that I don't think that the situation changed much, and many young girls are still victim of the same oppressive values.
.

I think the biggest issues regarding women are a) pay b) respect c) domestic violence d) exploitation.

A) Women throughout the world whether it be in Armenia or any other country are paid far less than men, especially in the third world. I have seen some statistics and apparently women do 2/3s of the work and get paid less than men, its just wrong. Yet there seems still to be this stereotype that men are better than women at work and thus deserve more pay.

B) There are religious texts and of course UN agreements on the rights of women yet neither of these are properly followed. The worst example of religion has to be Afghanistan where the Taliban raped and terrorised the Afghan population in direct desecration of the principles of the Koran they said they believed in. As for UN agreements on the rights of women not many nations have signed it or followed it through as women still have far less if no representation compared to men in corporations, governments and even educational institutions. It is apparent that there is a lack of respect for women whatever the religion or the nation.

C) Domestic Violence I personally know at lot about because it occurs in New Zealand a lot, so this is not just a issue of wealth but an issue of how men interact and behave around women. Its a lot to do with self control...how can we stop people resorting to violence. I think a lot of it is in human nature, but people just have to learn that by hurting your family you are hurting the people you love, and ultimately you are hurting yourself.

D) Exploitation of women is terrible, as I said before women do 2/3rds of the worlds work and get paid less than men. But it gets worse, what about the young girls in Europe, Asia and the Middle East that are abducted by unknowns or sold by their families into illegal brothels? This is a big issue. How can we accept that right now girls are being taken away and having their lives ruined forever. The other area is sweatshops because it is well known that young girls and boys are sold by their families into sweatshops. Finally we end up at the arranged marriage issue, because women are deprived of their rights by being forcibly married off by their families and intimidated and threatened if they don't agree, also divorce in places like Saudi Arabia is so greatly restricted that men can abuse women at will and their wives can't escape from it are forced to be married forever.