Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

[Haykakan]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

mmm, I don't think its fair to knock feminism in general, feminism started in a time where women were not allowed to vote, had to marry, could not work, etc,
feminism raises many issues in that fact that in many parts of the world men are legally allowed to rape their women if a woman did not give it up to them for four days

She raises very good points, but she forgets that all the things she points out aren't exclusive to Armenians, but in patriarchical societies in general, we actually are having a similar discussion now at Chicano.org for a few months now (Machismo, good or bad for culture)

The point I am trying to make is alot of it isn't due to Armenian women, or Mexican women, or Irish women, or Greek women or Muslim women or whatever, its more to do with the fact that alot of men are to blame, and have been pretty much oppressing women for years

Just my opinion, now off to reply to a long ass letter from certain people here lol

Your point is right on! This problem is not uniquly armenian but it is a problem which should be dealt with.

[Haykakan]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

"What we’re talking about right now I believe is a problem that this entire world faces, not just our people!"
Thats what i have been saying all along Saco but you still percieve my comments as being somehow antiarmenian.
"I’ve never been to a more materialistic nation then the US."
Unfortunatly this is the lifestyle that is spreading throughout the world including Armenia.Besides the fact that it is unsustainable, it also degenerates humanity into nothing more then money chasing beings who value nothing higher.
" some respects, yes, they have to be your children but all that is very irrelevant to what we’re talking about in this thread!"
Saco jan believe me personal experience is very relavent to this thread and jubject.

BTW HAPPY MOTHERS DAY TO ALL MOTHERS!!!!!

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Apparently the Turks forgot to cleanse this one out of our gene pool.... I'm done with this. Feminism at its best. Charming isn't it?

mmm, I don't think its fair to knock feminism in general, feminism started in a time where women were not allowed to vote, had to marry, could not work, etc,
feminism raises many issues in that fact that in many parts of the world men are legally allowed to rape their women if a woman did not give it up to them for four days

She raises very good points, but she forgets that all the things she points out aren't exclusive to Armenians, but in patriarchical societies in general, we actually are having a similar discussion now at Chicano.org for a few months now (Machismo, good or bad for culture)

The point I am trying to make is alot of it isn't due to Armenian women, or Mexican women, or Irish women, or Greek women or Muslim women or whatever, its more to do with the fact that alot of men are to blame, and have been pretty much oppressing women for years

Just my opinion, now off to reply to a long ass letter from certain people here lol

[Sako]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Haykakan isn't completely wrong, sometimes people don't really understand why their parents did what they did until they have children of their own. But that doesn't mean that they have to be your own children

In some respects, yes, they have to be your children but all that is very irrelevant to what we’re talking about in this thread!

Sometimes just having cousins, nieces or nephews around the house will change your own outlook on life in general. I think this is something that is lacking in our generation where the traditional family has been focused on the idea of a couple and not an entire family. So I agree with Kattie's assessment but while she is trying to say that the new world way is the correct way, I'm claiming that the traditional Armenian way is the correct way.

NO ONE, so far, has explained WHY or HOW our Armenian traditions are spoiling our new generation and if no one can then I’d appreciate it if we all just stop dissing them in any way. What we’re talking about right now I believe is a problem that this entire world faces, not just our people!

As far as being born with talent, somethings just come natural... there are things that just can't be explained. Like this 23 month old playing billiards. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xm4EjErEKE

now THAT’S something!

And if you want to talk about "being silenced" here is a newsflash, it's not only the Armenian women who were silenced growing up. Children in general weren't allowed to have a say in matters or "do as they please" or "talk back to their elders". These were all, in my mind excellent parenting skills. Who are you at such a young age to claim you have a voice over the only people that truly love you in this world?

I don’t think anyone can disagree with this. In the US, little kids can call up 911 and send their parents to jail if they ever touch or upset them … even if they (the kids) did something wrong. That is why you can see fifteen year old hoes sitting beside you in class! I’ve never been to a more materialistic nation then the US. I’d rather live in the slums of India then in any part of America, brother! That nation’s finished and the new generation is more spoiled then ever before. I’m afraid to think what life’s going to be like in 30 years! All this is happening because everyone wants to be “free” and “independent”. There is no such thing, people. Freedom comes from knowledge and proper behavior. We’re here to learn, aren’t we? And the only reason people call our traditions “old” and our people “old minded” is because they don’t have any standards. It’s not us that need to change…

[Sako]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Personally, I believe that physical beauty fades away quickly unless the person is charmful, and charms can make a person with an "average" physique attractive.

So what does a girl have to do to become "charmful"? What do parents have to do to make their kids more charming?

Our grandparents were not exposed to other cultures, and at the time, repressing a woman was acceptable.

What were women supposed to be able to do, Kattie? How were our men being repressive?

If being dumb made a person charmful, then why aren't you charming?

I could ask you the same thing ......

Your not answering or reading anything ... just stating that we don't know much, Katarine. How's that for uncharming?

A true point, but temper it with the fact that some men in no way deserve to be charmed.

I agree. Many, many guys here in Yerevan don't even have the right to call themselves Armenians and simply misuse our girls. I think this has a very bad effect on the charm of Armenian women. That's why I said let's talk about that.

AND AGAIN, no one mentioned a single tradition that was bad for our girls. So I take it we're done throwing all the blame on our traditional upbringing lol!

men to a large part are to blame, this is true of any society that has a lot of patriarchy which is found in most modern day societies

EXACTLY! Let's be talking about that...

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Our grandparents were not exposed to other cultures, and at the time, repressing a woman was acceptable. Also, they were performing their duty to build a family and/or were taking care of their biological urges, most men are not difficult to say the least when it comes to satisfy their biological urge.


If being dumb made a person charmful, then why aren't you charming?


It was about whether sexual education makes a women charmful. German women are sexually more open even when compared to other Europeans but are far from being more charmful.
What do you know about german women? Do you know when to stop and limit yourself to what you know?

Apparently the Turks forgot to cleanse this one out of our gene pool.... I'm done with this. Feminism at its best. Charming isn't it?

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Isn't it funny when an Armenian woman is being told how Armenian women are by someone who has "never met many Armenians in real life"?


Charms and docility do not always go together, there are non-docile females who are masculine and lack charms, and there are outspoken, independent minded females with plenty of charms.


I said "not all cultures". I don't consider Arabs as a reference when it come to charms and open mindedness, but I can appreciate the refinements and role of geishas in traditional Japanese culture.


First of all, all is relative. Second of all, I said "not all cultures". Most of all, does domestic violence in other cultures justify the situation?




Don't we all love a modest Armo paternalizing us and showing us the right direction? Thank you for "keeping in short".


So you think that women with charms have no boundaries? You have a real distorted and sad perception of certain aspects of life.


First of all, charming has nothing to do with "getting down with every guy around the block". Second of all, you're understanding of what I've meant is not even close enough.


Many go to Armenia to find a bride with the hope of finding a more obedient woman, not for their charms.


A woman can be attractive, have a good taste, be well behaved yet lack charms. I'll tell more in my reply to Lucin.



Some are being open minded, but it is true that some have reacted as if I was vilifying Armenian women, when my intent is to remind that Armenian women are being the victims


I agree. I would simply add that many Armenians have stopped the clock in 1915 as if Armenian values and traditions wouldn't have changed and evolved if the genocide did not happen. Did we lose the right to be part of history because of the genocide?


I have read read several articles that cover the issue.


That's sad and I know that it may happen.

Lass, if ye read what I said, I was merely saying that you find this amongst non Armenians and drew a parrellel, I did not mean to insult you and there was no need to get defensive, although I am flattered that you read my previous posts to see how many Armenians I do know, gracias for that btw

My point is is that you will find this all over, women have been treated like crap worldwide, it isn't just amongst Armenians, you find it in Mexico, Asia, Africa, even the "heart of Moral decency" Europe, I agree it is a terrible issue and people seriously need to give more rights towards women, men to a large part are to blame, this is true of any society that has a lot of patriarchy which is found in most modern day societies

I guess I just couldn't see the reason behind the rudeness, I did not mean to offend you if you think that was my intention

[hrai]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

As Anonymouse was pointing out, not only have some women lost the ability to charm men, but they have also lost the ability to be charming in general, handicapping their ability to be a good mother.

A true point, but temper it with the fact that some men in no way deserve to be charmed.

[hrai]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Hrair, I do not travel anymore. If you are still in Trier and come
by Metz I shall be glad to receive you too. I have much to say in
this interesting forum,but I do not speak English as fluently as all of you here. So there are many misunderstanding.
L Kiffer

Merci madame.

[Eddo211]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

................or were taking care of their biological urges, most men are not difficult to say the least when it comes to satisfy their biological urge.

Wait a minute are you implying………………This reminds me of that crazy old man that used to tell me. “Those were the days my boy when men were men and the sheep were scared” hahahaha