The Պարսկա-Eastern Armenian Language Thread

[Siggie]

I was thinking we can have a barsga EA language thread similar to the WA language thread.

I know there aren't too many barsga-hyes here, but I hope someone can help... *looks at Lucin*

When we speak at least, we say 'elnim' like "if I was". Is that a word? Ելնի՞մ or should it be լինեմ or ըլլամ?

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I try to (re)learn how to write in Armenian and I will post them in this thread as they come up, but while I'm at it, I'll throw in "herr" (in place of ինչու) too. Does anyone know where it came from?

[Lucin]

Re: The Պարսկա-Eastern Armenian Language Thread

Vaaay Siggie, haziv mi kich moratsel ei ( or 'moratselim') Parskahayeren@ I'm glad you made this thread. To be honest I was going to make one soon since Yerazhishda had created a similar thread dedicated to the Western dialect and had forbidden us to discuss in Eastern Armenian. Though I would have preferred the title to be 'Eastern Armenian' plain, but it's OK we're going to discuss some of the differences here and the root of the distortion, most of which goes back to Persian. Hopefully this will help us not chew our words and not sing that much while we speak. My mouth hurts sometimes

I was thinking we can have a barsga EA language thread similar to the WA language thread.

I know there aren't too many barsga-hyes here, but I hope someone can help... *looks at Lucin*

Where are ya Sip? Sip is also our Parskahai compatriot and knows Armenian and Persian well.

When we speak at least, we say 'elnim' like "if I was". Is that a word? Ելնի՞մ or should it be լինեմ or ըլլամ?

"elnim" is obviously wrong in standard Armenian. It should be լինէի (spoken or written) or 'elnei' (more common in spoken Armenian). լինեմ is correct but it's not the past tense, it'd be 'If I am'.

Now where does "elnim" come from? In Persian, the verbs of first person in the past tense usually, end in 'm'. For example, 'Neveshtam ' (I wrote) and that in my belief has been translated/ imitated wrongly into 'gram' in Armenian by Parskahais, while the correct form should be 'gretsi'. The same goes with almost the rest of the verbs; khpam/ khpetsi, nayam/ nayetsi, kartatsim/ kartatsi...

Those familiar with Persian may know and agree with me that it is an extremely melodic language with constant and frequent changes of syllables containing vowels which are usually being pronounced 'prominently' and in a strong, lengthy tone which as a result make it sound like a melody, more like singing while speaking and when you utter your words in a melodic/singing mode, naturally you tend not to pronounce all the letters in a word properly, hence the reason why Parskahais do what they do now.

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I try to (re)learn how to write in Armenian and I will post them in this thread as they come up, but while I'm at it, I'll throw in "herr" (in place of ինչու) too. Does anyone know where it came from?

Actually it doesn't have to do with Persian since the word 'chera' is being used so I don't know where the hell it comes from. Of course Armenians from Esfahan use 'hur' instead of 'heer'. 'Hur' mean fire in Armenian but I don't see the relevance...

[Siggie]

Re: The Պարսկա-Eastern Armenian Language Thread

Vaaay Siggie, haziv mi kich moratsel ei ( or 'moratselim') Parskahayeren@ I'm glad you made this thread. To be honest I was going to make one soon since Yerazhishda had created a similar thread dedicated to the Western dialect and had forbidden us to discuss in Eastern Armenian. Though I would have preferred the title to be 'Eastern Armenian' plain, but it's OK we're going to discuss some of the differences here and the root of the distortion, most of which goes back to Persian. Hopefully this will help us not chew our words and not sing that much while we speak. My mouth hurts sometimes

If it seems like having a separate EA thread would be redundant we can change the title of this one. We'll be flexible as needed.

Vaaaaaay Lucin! I dont want to hear that it's a distortion! I like the singing!
So, you've been trying to lose your barsga-ness? Don't you find it difficult to change now?

Where are ya Sip? Sip is also our Parskahai compatriot and knows Armenian and Persian well.

I didn't realize Sip's a barsgahye too! Siiiiiiiip! You've been outed! Come out, come out, where evaaaar you aaare!

"elnim" is obviously wrong in standard Armenian. It should be լինէի (spoken or written) or 'elnei' (more common in spoken Armenian). լինեմ is correct but it's not the past tense, it'd be 'If I am'.

Now where does "elnim" come from? In Persian, the verbs of first person in the past tense usually, end in 'm'. For example, 'Neveshtam ' (I wrote) and that in my belief has been translated/ imitated wrongly into 'gram' in Armenian by Parskahais, while the correct form should be 'gretsi'. The same goes with almost the rest of the verbs; khpam/ khpetsi, nayam/ nayetsi, kartatsim/ kartatsi...

Those familiar with Persian may know and agree with me that it is an extremely melodic language with constant and frequent changes of syllables containing vowels which are usually being pronounced 'prominently' and in a strong, lengthy tone which as a result make it sound like a melody, more like singing while speaking and when you utter your words in a melodic/singing mode, naturally you tend not to pronounce all the letters in a word properly, hence the reason why Parskahais do what they do now.

Because they say that the EA spoken by barsgahyes is the closest to Classical Armenian, I had hope that other than a few borrowed words there wouldn't be much distortion. This seems like kind of a big one though. [/quote]

Actually it doesn't have to do with Persian since the word 'chera' is being used so I don't know where the hell it comes from. Of course Armenians from Esfahan use 'hur' instead of 'heer'. 'Hur' mean fire in Armenian but I don't see the relevance...

No one seems to know where that came from! It's the great parsgahye mystery!


Thanks you for your assistance Lucin! Is there anything else you can think of that has been distorted?

[Lucin]

Re: The Պարսկա-Eastern Armenian Language Thread

If it seems like having a separate EA thread would be redundant we can change the title of this one. We'll be flexible as needed.

With a more general title, our Hayastantsis can butt in as well and discuss about their funny expressions and Eastern dialect generally. So yes please.

Vaaaaaay Lucin! I dont want to hear that it's a distortion! I like the singing!
So, you've been trying to lose your barsga-ness? Don't you find it difficult to change now?

LOL, you think it's possible? The best I can do is to transform "laveeeeeeeeeeees?" into "laveeeees?".

Actually I've been working more on pronouncing the verbs correctly and omitting the simple, common Persian words replacing them by Armenian equivalents.

Because they say that the EA spoken by barsgahyes is the closest to Classical Armenian, I had hope that other than a few borrowed words there wouldn't be much distortion. This seems like kind of a big one though.

Nah, the Armenian spoken by Parskahais and Hayastantsis is the eastern Armenian (as you know); however part of the orthography of the alphabet was simplified during the Soviet era in Armenia while the Iranian-Armenian community did not opt for such a change and has remained true to its original Mesropian vesion, so is classical Armenian. Maybe that's where your confusion comes from?

Thanks you for your assistance Lucin! Is there anything else you can think of that has been distorted?

There are other examples too I will go through them in coming days, when I find time.

[Sip]

Re: The Պարսկա-Eastern Armenian Language Thread

There's no "Eastern Armenian" .. there's "real" Armenian, and then there's the western dialect. Barska-hayeren is a dialect that's pretty close to the real Armenian with a few "fun" differences babam jan.

[Sip]

Re: The Պարսկա-Eastern Armenian Language Thread

One thing about barska-hyes though ... we love to put extra 'n's in everything ... "kananch" (green) and "chananchel" (recognize) are two examples that come to mind right away

[Federate]

Re: The Պարսկա-Eastern Armenian Language Thread

One thing about barska-hyes though ... we love to put extra 'n's in everything ... "kananch" (green) and "chananchel" (recognize) are two examples that come to mind right away

Western Armenians do the same with կանաչ. Ճանաչել is not used as much in Western Armenian, they use ճանչնալ. The two examples you give both place a 'ն' before a 'չ'. Could there be a connection or can you think of other examples without the 'չ'?

[Lucin]

Re: The Պարսկա-Eastern Armenian Language Thread

Siggie, here is more: (On the left, we have the 'Parskahai' version, on the right, the correct one)

Grumim/ Grum ei
Grumir/ Grum eir
Grumink/ Grum eink
Grumik/ Grum eik
Grumin/ Grum ein

The same goes for the negative form:

Chim grum/ chei grum.
Chir grum/ cheir grum.
Chink grum/ cheink grum.
Chin grum/ chein grum.
Chik grum/ cheik grum.

*
Also:

Gram/ gretsi
Grar/ Gretsir
Grav/ grets
Grank/ Gretsink
Grak/ Gretsik
Gran/ Gretsin

*

"Teseres" instead of "Teseles". "Greres" instead of "Greles" and so on. Obviously the 'r' shouldn't be there but some Parskahais, I have noticed, tend to put 'r' instead of 'l' which is obviously wrong.

*

"Ches gre", instead of "ches grel", "chem gre" instead of "chem grel", "chen gre" instead of "chen grel". You get the picture so I don't continue with other persons… Probably it makes it easier for some to not pronounce the final 'l', lol.

As you may notice, a huge part of our problem is with the proper conjugation of the verbs, especially in the past tense. More is to come…

There's no "Eastern Armenian" .. there's "real" Armenian, and then there's the western dialect. Barska-hayeren is a dialect that's pretty close to the real Armenian with a few "fun" differences babam jan.

Moderator@ western dialect-a khosum, babaaa But seriously I don't get your reasoning behind this.

One thing about barska-hyes though ... we love to put extra 'n's in everything ... "kananch" (green) and "chananchel" (recognize) are two examples that come to mind right away

Yea, true. There is also the word "kit" (nose) for which some add an extra 'n' and say like "kint".

[Siggie]

Re: The Պարսկա-Eastern Armenian Language Thread

Siggie, here is more: (On the left, we have the 'Parskahai' version, on the right, the correct one)

Grumim/ Grum ei
Grumir/ Grum eir
Grumink/ Grum eink
Grumik/ Grum eik
Grumin/ Grum ein

The same goes for the negative form:

Chim grum/ chei grum.
Chir grum/ cheir grum.
Chink grum/ cheink grum.
Chin grum/ chein grum.
Chik grum/ cheik grum.

*
Also:

Gram/ gretsi
Grar/ Gretsir
Grav/ grets
Grank/ Gretsink
Grak/ Gretsik
Gran/ Gretsin

*

Լուսին ջա՜ն: Չեմ ուզում ճիշտ խօսամ բաբամ ջան:

I can do it the right way when I speak WA, but I just can't speak naturally and still make these changes. It will make it super awkward for me.

"Teseres" instead of "Teseles". "Greres" instead of "Greles" and so on. Obviously the 'r' shouldn't be there but some Parskahais, I have noticed, tend to put 'r' instead of 'l' which is obviously wrong.

*

My WA half tells me they do this substitution too. Interesting no? It's better knowing it's not just a barsgahye thing.

"Ches gre", instead of "ches grel", "chem gre" instead of "chem grel", "chen gre" instead of "chen grel". You get the picture so I don't continue with other persons… Probably it makes it easier for some to not pronounce the final 'l', lol.

As you may notice, a huge part of our problem is with the proper conjugation of the verbs, especially in the past tense. More is to come…

It makes sense that we'd stop saying that last l... even when you say it it's barely detectable and trails off. This seems an easy correction to make when going from speaking to writing though.

Moderator@ western dialect-a khosum, babaaa But seriously I don't get your reasoning behind this.

*pinches the moderator's cheeks* Սիիիիիիրե՜մ քեզ:

He's training to be an honorary barsgahye.

Yea, true. There is also the word "kit" (nose) for which some add an extra 'n' and say like "kint".

Wow! I have never heard this one Lucin!

[Federate]

Re: The Պարսկա-Eastern Armenian Language Thread

"Teseres" instead of "Teseles". "Greres" instead of "Greles" and so on. Obviously the 'r' shouldn't be there but some Parskahais, I have noticed, tend to put 'r' instead of 'l' which is obviously wrong.

My WA half tells me they do this substitution too. Interesting no? It's better knowing it's not just a barsgahye thing.

Correct except that it's not wrong for WA. «Տեսեր եմ», «տեսեր ես», «տեսեր է» եւ այլն. are all correct conjugation.

*pinches the moderator's cheeks* Սիիիիիիրե՜մ քեզ:

He's training to be an honorary barsgahye.

*Կը ձգէ սիրուի Սիկկիէն* We're trading «կոր» and «յալլահ» for «հերր» and «բաբամ ջան»

Not to be understated that she's surpassed me in the rate of learning a second dialect. Her WA is great