What if Armenians were Muslim?

[Mos]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Armenians have a bit more oriental flavor to them than do georgians but we too are occidental. Armenians and georgians are similar culturally, and even ethnically, however due to recent politics and the chauvinism among georgians, they like to think better of themselves. Don't be fooled though, both georgians and azeris know Armenians are legendary and as a result they fear and sometimes loathe us.

I would argue the opposite. We've had more contact with Europe throughout our history than Georgians, and Georgians really were just an offshoot of the us, and really much of their culture is heavily influenced or taken from us. Heck we gave them their alphabet for starters. Though Georgians also have similarities to Chechens. They try to display themselves as a Northwestern european country, and have good PR to do so, but the truth still remains behind all that advertising.

It's unfortunate that current geopolitics have set us apart, at least strategically, but what can you do, as I've said before, countries need to take their self-interest and geopolitical interests as priorities in foreign policy.

[Armanen]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

I would argue the opposite. We've had more contact with Europe throughout our history than Georgians, and Georgians really were just an offshoot of the us, and really much of their culture is heavily influenced or taken from us. Heck we gave them their alphabet for starters. Though Georgians also have similarities to Chechens. They try to display themselves as a Northwestern european country, and have good PR to do so, but the truth still remains behind all that advertising.

It's unfortunate that current geopolitics have set us apart, at least strategically, but what can you do, as I've said before, countries need to take their self-interest and geopolitical interests as priorities in foreign policy.

A case can be made for what you argue, regardless, Armenians and georgians have much in common, more so than either does with the Germans for example. I would add that while Armenians have had closer ties with the western Europeans than the georgians, that Armenia was under islamic rule longer than georgia, and unlike georgia, we didn't keep our royal dynasty till modern times, they did.

Actually, georgia is not taking their long term strategic interests to heart, otherwise they would not have attacked S. Ossetia, continue to piss of their northern neighbor, mistreat their minority groups (that's what led to them losing Abkhazia and S. Ossetia), and they would not cooporate so closely with a neo-imperialistic nation, like turkey.

Once a more pro-Moscow government comes to power in tiflis, and the highway connecting Iran to georgia via Armenia is complete, we may see solid signs of georgian-Armenian-Iranian cooperation with the blessing of official Moscow of course. The ideal for the south caucasus would be for azerbaijan, Armenia, and georgia to form a close open market union, similar to the Benelux nations. None of the three countries can get ahead far unless they work together, or one of them disappears from the map or is severly weakened. I am not holding my breath for any union or confederation to occur, but I do predict closer relations between Armenia and georgia should there be a new government in tiflis.

[Mos]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

A case can be made for what you argue, regardless, Armenians and georgians have much in common, more so than either does with the Germans for example. I would add that while Armenians have had closer ties with the western Europeans than the georgians, that Armenia was under islamic rule longer than georgia, and unlike georgia, we didn't keep our royal dynasty till modern times, they did.

Us being under Islamic rule doesn't mean we turned more "Islamic". Actually we have been very resilient under foreign rule in keeping our identity and religion intact. Georgia is just better at PR than us, that's why people are fooled that they are some forgotten European nation or something.

[Armanen]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Us being under Islamic rule doesn't mean we turned more "Islamic". Actually we have been very resilient under foreign rule in keeping our identity and religion intact. Georgia is just better at PR than us, that's why people are fooled that they are some forgotten European nation or something.

PR part I agree, my main point was that Armenians have lived with islamic peoples longer and it has rubbed off. You can deny this if you want but the facts remain the facts.

[Mos]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

PR part I agree, my main point was that Armenians have lived with islamic peoples longer and it has rubbed off. You can deny this if you want but the facts remain the facts.

Maybe that's more true for Western Armenians, but I'm not so sure same can be said about Eastern Armenians which make up Armenia.

Though when you talk about "rubbing off" what aspects are you talking about specifically?

[Armanen]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Maybe that's more true for Western Armenians, but I'm not so sure same can be said about Eastern Armenians which make up Armenia.

Though when you talk about "rubbing off" what aspects are you talking about specifically?

Eastern Armenians were under Persian rule until the early 1800s. So it is true for both, give or take a 100 years.

I cited the example of georgian tv being more liberal in that they show a man and women kissing on their tv shows, where as in Armenia it is considered 'amot'. The foods we eat, some of them are of arabic origin, we have incorporated this more than georgians, and Western Armenians even more than Eastern Armenians. Coffee become popular because of Armenians who lived in Arab countries emigrated to Armenia. Before that tea was more popular.

[Mos]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Eastern Armenians were under Persian rule until the early 1800s. So it is true for both, give or take a 100 years.

I cited the example of georgian tv being more liberal in that they show a man and women kissing on their tv shows, where as in Armenia it is considered 'amot'. The foods we eat, some of them are of arabic origin, we have incorporated this more than georgians, and Western Armenians even more than Eastern Armenians. Coffee become popular because of Armenians who lived in Arab countries emigrated to Armenia. Before that tea was more popular.

I've seen in those stupid Armenian soap operas people kiss. Of course no sexual scenes, but kissing I've seen. When it comes to food, I was recently at a Georgia restaurant an their foods seem to have just as much "middle eastern" influence as ours do, maybe give or take few dishes, especially for Western Armenians.

I don't know what you are getting at with the coffee and tea argument. So us liking to drink coffee rather than tea makes us more arabic influenced?

[Armanen]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

I've seen in those stupid Armenian soap operas people kiss. Of course no sexual scenes, but kissing I've seen. When it comes to food, I was recently at a Georgia restaurant an their foods seem to have just as much "middle eastern" influence as ours do, maybe give or take few dishes, especially for Western Armenians.

I don't know what you are getting at with the coffee and tea argument. So us liking to drink coffee rather than tea makes us more arabic influenced?

Yes, tea was the popular drink of Armenians before the 1940s. It came from Armenians who repatriated during the 40s from Syria, Lebanon, and other Arab states.

The kissing is recent, it was not long ago that they didn't show this on tv. BTW: I am not arguing here that georgians have given more to European culture or are more European, just that we have had relatively more islamic influence than they have.

[Mos]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

BTW: I am not arguing here that georgians have given more to European culture or are more European, just that we have had relatively more islamic influence than they have.

Remember there are many more Muslim Georgians than Muslim Armenians (which there really aren't except Hemshins but they aren't integrated into Armenian society). I wouldn't say we have a significant amount of Islamic influence in comparison to Georgians, that's just how I see it.

[Armanen]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Remember there are many more Muslim Georgians than Muslim Armenians (which there really aren't except Hemshins but they aren't integrated into Armenian society). I wouldn't say we have a significant amount of Islamic influence in comparison to Georgians, that's just how I see it.

I never used the word significant. I said relative. Armenians were more hardcore about their religious beliefs than the georgians It was our people who fought the first war in history to defend Christianity, the first Crusade if you will.