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What if Armenians were Muslim?

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  • #61
    Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

    You have to see our early defense of Christianity against the Sasanids in the battle of Avarayr as a defense of a Western orientation by Armenians, a defense of Hellenistic culture (which the Arshakunis were fond of), Christ was just its adopted archetype. You can see this clearly in the decision of Armenians in the 5th century AD choosing to base their most important translations on Greek manuscripts rather than Syriac, which was both more local and likely better understood by the Armenian literate class, as it was the lingua franca in the region during the Parthian period. It was not Christianity for its own sake that they were after, it was Hellenism. The thing with Armenia after the fall of Byzantine power is that it became an island of this western hellenophilia in matters more powerful than the design of columns and the style used for making statues: religion. And in a sea of Islam. No longer was Armenia's identity visible as a tug of war between Greeks and Persians, which is essentially the basis for much of our religious and cultural history, but as an island stubbornly resisting conversion as always to whatever is mainstream, in this case, Islam.

    Under Arab rule, the Armenians even chose to ally themselves with an Arab orientation at least politically during the 7th-9th centuries, and flourished under its protection, though Arab emirs started to show up in Armenia and ruled peasants much as the Nakharars did, and brought their language and culture with them (though the borrowings in Armenian from Arabic never reached vernacular status, and entered the Armenian language just as easily as they left it).

    But it was also during this time that Armenians developed most of the theological framework of their Christianity, as now they were safely cut off from the Greeks, always seeking to assimilate the Armenians to their religion. Under Arab rule, Armenians were finally able to feel secure with their own religious historiography as a distinctly Armenian phenomenon: the coast was finally clear for them to associate Christianity with Armenian-ness without worrying about being invaded by Greeks for not norming in all the tenets adopted by their Church in Constantinople, a very serious one being their desire for Greek to be the language used for the divine liturgy (basically attempts at assimilating the divergent Oriental Orthodox Churches, including the Armenian Apostolic Church).

    If it were not for the rise of the Bagratunis, Armenia would have been missing the subsequent 300 years of history which followed Arab rule where we were truly politically autonomous, and had our own center of religion that had the power to assimilate non-Armenians. We would have a completely different history if that never happened: we would likely have had many more Muslim Armenians today as the emirs present in Armenia during Arab rule would have never left, their legacy would continue uninterrupted during Seljuk rule.
    Last edited by jgk3; 03-16-2011, 05:51 AM.

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    • #62
      Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

      Originally posted by jgk3 View Post
      If Armenians would have chosen to ally themselves with an Arab orientation, who knows what would happen. We would have a completely different history.
      If that had happened there would be no Armenian today - Armenians would just be another on of those extinct ethnic groups. We would have assimilated into the bigger neighbouring groups.
      Մեկ Ազգ, Մեկ Մշակույթ
      ---
      "Western Assimilation is the greatest threat to the Armenian nation since the Armenian Genocide."

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      • #63
        Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

        Originally posted by Mos View Post
        If that had happened there would be no Armenian today - Armenians would just be another on of those extinct ethnic groups. We would have assimilated into the bigger neighbouring groups.
        Since their conversion to Christianity, Armenians were the type who allied themselves periodically to greater powers, so long as they can keep their ties to their church intact. Once this is threatened, rebellion ensues, and since our numbers our small, our people generally get killed a lot for it, but still manage to hold on somehow and stubbornly survive.
        Last edited by jgk3; 03-16-2011, 06:09 AM.

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        • #64
          Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

          Originally posted by jgk3 View Post
          Since their conversion to Christianity, Armenians were the type who allied themselves periodically to greater powers, so long as they can keep their ties to their church intact. Once this is threatened, rebellion ensues, and since our numbers our small, our people generally get killed a lot for it, but still manage to hold on somehow and stubbornly survive.
          The Armenian hallmark is to follow the leading powers of the day as Armenians generally enjoy living among the elite. Even Saddam Hussein surrounded himself and trusted Armenians as we are generally loyal to the hand that feeds even if we'd rather bite it.
          "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

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          • #65
            Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

            Originally posted by jgk3 View Post
            Since their conversion to Christianity, Armenians were the type who allied themselves periodically to greater powers, so long as they can keep their ties to their church intact. Once this is threatened, rebellion ensues, and since our numbers our small, our people generally get killed a lot for it, but still manage to hold on somehow and stubbornly survive.
            Hell, we played the Persians against the Romans and then later against the Byzantium (we died fighting on both sides too), and we played the Ottomans against the Russians.....whatever it took to survive.

            Armenia's survival strongly was/is influenced by our code of honor. The world "Azg" is very old before there was nationalism in the world.

            Armenian warrior's strict Code of Honor since recorded history:

            - Loyalty to the homeland above all else
            - Allegiance to the King
            - Loyalty to the people of Armenia
            - Loyalty to ones family
            - Piety to the Armenian Religious Creed
            - Personnel reputation and Valor
            B0zkurt Hunter

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            • #66
              Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

              Originally posted by Haykakan View Post
              islamified Armenians.
              I have a hard time understanding this......once Islamified how can they be Armenian?
              They are Armenians who chaanged their religion so they can live better in Islamic states.
              B0zkurt Hunter

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              • #67
                Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                Is being Armenian all about religion?
                Then Catholic or Protestant or other Armenians are not really Armenian

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                • #68
                  Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                  Right.....its mind boggling.

                  I have an Aunt in Iran who changed to Islam but she still the same Armenian woman.
                  B0zkurt Hunter

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                  • #69
                    Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                    While I am not super religious, I have a hard time accepting a muslim or jewish person of armenian descent.

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                    • #70
                      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                      Originally posted by Shant03 View Post
                      While I am not super religious, I have a hard time accepting a muslim or jewish person of armenian descent.
                      It's because of prejudice that you, me and most of us have towards other Armenians, who are not exactly like our selfs.
                      Real Armenian is anybody that considers himself/herself as Armenian, carries in heart a love for Armenia and all kinds of Armenians and is ready to do whatever in power, to benefit Armenian republic.
                      It does not really matter if he/she is a Muslim, Jewish religious, atheist or any type of Christian.
                      Last edited by Hakob; 10-09-2015, 07:35 AM.

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