"White People"

[ArmoBarbi]

wow, how sweet!

it's interesting how you keep bringing up this notion of armenians not being white...the people who think that greeks, armenians, italians...etc are black have the same kind of ignorant and intolerant mentality as the toothless hicks do in the south and in rural areas who think that all blacks, asians, hispanics, and other minorities are 2nd class citizens! and believe me!! there still ARE people like this running around consuming our oxygen and polluting the air with CO2

Karine, my faith in you has been restored!

[hyebruin]

Karine, my faith in you has been restored!

i never knew it was lost maybe you misperceived where i stand on things

[ArmoBarbi]

i never knew it was lost maybe you misperceived where i stand on things

I suppose I did. Forgive me lol

[winoman]

I find it funny that certain Armenians claim that when other Armenians express issues/doubt/examples of others claiming that Armenians are not "white" or that some of us don't identify with being "white" that somehow we are self-haters...as if being "white" automatically has the connotation of superior or such...absurd.

Again - Albinos and Micheal Jackson are "white" - everyone else is just pretending. It is not a differentiator that really has any meaning. And Armenains are clearly not "European" (regardless of some claiming that anything east o=f the Urals...no doesn't cut it - Armenians have never been European culturaly...once again its the Lavash baby!)

So - we are categorized as Caucasian - OK - but what does this really mean - its a somewhat arbitrary distinction IMO (and in most anthropoligists' opinion)...again line em up - and I think you would much more easily pick out Armenians from a line up of other Caucasians then you could from a linup of semites or what have you...and again - this focuses on physical characteristics only anyway...but what really matters more is culture....and our culture is - like all - a blend of differening amounts of the cultures around us synthesized into what it is (and even then - as Armenians have been in somewhat Diaspora status for some time - even "Armenian culture" is no one thing)....so where does that leave us? Well - we are Armenians....this is what binds us - what we identify with - and what distinguishes us...not weather we are "white" or European or what have you. I see things just the opposite to those who attempt to claim so stridently that we are "white" and european...it is you who seem insecure and in need of identifying us with something that we are not to make yourselves feel better. Those of us who realise that we are a mix - and that we are more like others of the Levant than of Europe - that we are the ones accepting of our nature and culture...and not the other way around...

[winoman]

Oh no you mentioned stormfront. How could you? Nunechka might have an aneurism now.

BTW - I occasionaly monitor this site and some other similar ones - I have seen numerous instances where Armenians were heaped with abuse and were racially taunted and called camel-jockys or similar from these stormfront and other Aryan racist types...so good luck with fitting in with your new found buddies...

[ArmoBarbi]

I find it funny that certain Armenians claim that when other Armenians express issues/doubt/examples of others claiming that Armenians are not "white" or that some of us don't identify with being "white" that somehow we are self-haters...as if being "white" automatically has the connotation of superior or such...absurd.

Again - Albinos and Micheal Jackson are "white" - everyone else is just pretending. It is not a differentiator that really has any meaning. And Armenains are clearly not "European" (regardless of some claiming that anything east o=f the Urals...no doesn't cut it - Armenians have never been European culturaly...once again its the Lavash baby!)

So - we are categorized as Caucasian - OK - but what does this really mean - its a somewhat arbitrary distinction IMO (and in most anthropoligists' opinion)...again line em up - and I think you would much more easily pick out Armenians from a line up of other Caucasians then you could from a linup of semites or what have you...and again - this focuses on physical characteristics only anyway...but what really matters more is culture....and our culture is - like all - a blend of differening amounts of the cultures around us synthesized into what it is (and even then - as Armenians have been in somewhat Diaspora status for some time - even "Armenian culture" is no one thing)....so where does that leave us? Well - we are Armenians....this is what binds us - what we identify with - and what distinguishes us...not weather we are "white" or European or what have you. I see things just the opposite to those who attempt to claim so stridently that we are "white" and european...it is you who seem insecure and in need of identifying us with something that we are not to make yourselves feel better. Those of us who realise that we are a mix - and that we are more like others of the Levant than of Europe - that we are the ones accepting of our nature and culture...and not the other way around...

Doesnt cut it? What part of "geographers agree" dont you understand? West of Ural Mts is Europe. Argue about our "culture" and lavash all you want lol its simply not up for your approval. Where did you go to school if you dont mind??

[winoman]

Doesnt cut it? What part of "geographers agree" dont you understand? West of Ural Mts is Europe. Argue about our "culture" and lavash all you want lol its simply not up for your approval. Where did you go to school if you dont mind??

Again - its about culture - not stricly geogrophy. You don't consider Chechens European do you?

Oh and I started attending Johns Hopkins University for Anthropology when I was 14 years old...graduated at 18...

[ArmoBarbi]

Darn it!!! I typed a post and it didnt work!!! I hate it when that happens....

You learned this at John Hopkins?? I dont know enough about Chechens to consider them anything but Chechens. I do know that there is such a thing as migration, and there are people in the Caucusus who have Asian origins. I also know that Armenians are not one of these people. If we migrated from either side - it was the west side.

Plus, I tend to go by the official groups established by the professionals. Not one of these professionals (from what I see) will put Armenians in the Semitic or Altaic or even Caucasian group over Indo-European.

If you have a different official grouping you wish to show me, I will gladly look.

[winoman]

My "claim" is one that is largely accepted by Anthropologists today (though not without some dissent - much as there exists differences of opinion regarding the degree of biological verus cultural determinism etc) - and this claim is - that racial categorization is not scientifically valid - but has been used primarily as a mechanism for making certain top level distinctions - and when these are fully put to the test one finds that genetic commonalities tend to be much more prevelent in assocated (by geography) populations - regardless of more commonly identifiable racial facial/skin/hair etc characteristics. So its primarily been a matter of convenience to make such groupings when in fact there are greater differences for example between pygmies and Masai then between Armenians and Turks (or Chechens or whomever...geogrphically close but not normally thought of as the same racially...) for instance.

And the issue of European vesus Asian or what have you - here geography alone is not the determinor - but culture. And again - lines are not so cleanly drawn. Does Armenian culture (again what is "pure" here...? if one dan even ever ID such) - does it share elements with what is accepted as European culture - certainly some things yes...but it certainly shares much more with Persian culture for instance - just in the way we live - and what we eat is a very central part of this...but other things as well - our dances, how and what we celbrate, family relationships (and specifically courting practices and marraige rituals...etc) - etc etc - these are what make us. But any examination of what Armenains "are" must consider the Diaspora influences and the dispersion of Armenain communities throughout (primarily) Anatolia and the Middle East and consider these various impacts as well...

[winoman]

Not one of these professionals (from what I see) will put Armenians in the Semitic or Altaic or even Caucasian group over Indo-European.

If you have a different official grouping you wish to show me, I will gladly look.

Here you are talking language I believe - and for the most part you are correct (and I really don't claim expertise on Armenian language or otherwise really to be honest) - but my understanding is that Armenian is generally considered as one of the base/early? Indo-European languages (a very large & diverse family with some common roots & characteristics) that is in many ways not closely related to most others and that there is sometimes some dispute if Armenian is properly placed.

Anyway - language - as very important as it is...tells us perhaps much about where we originated culturally...but not necissarily where we came out of (racially? - ?) before such and not so much how our culture as evolved since (though words added to the root language will give some clues concerning subsequant influences...)

I will caveat - I have a degree in Anthropology - and studied it and other related subjects...and I keep up - to a certain degree - but do not work in the field or practice it per se - so there are plenty of others who can actually provide more specifically informed viewpoints on these matters. I do feel that I am fairly on concerning the general concepts (and trends of accepted knowledge/views) and such however.