Turkish penal code: say Armenian Genocide is true --> go to jail

[karakitap]

I don't believe that Turks are barbarians and have never said such. The Ottoman Empire was at the end corrupt and dysfunctional. The Turks were unable to concieve of a modern social structure apart from what they had known with them dominating and lording over the minorities of the Empire -in one form or another. While some in the Empire understood the failure of the Sultanate and understood that the ethnic divisions had to be done away with and saw the potential for reinvigormant of the Empire with full inclusion of the minorities unfortunatly they did not hold sway and like most revolutions where there is severe social change and tubulent economic and socio-political conditions the hard core militirists bent on draconian nationalistic agendas ultimatly held sway. They could see no solution to their dilema beyond elimination of potential competitors and they were further driven by greed and personal and racial ambition. Thus they decimated their own citizens whom they branded as "other". This is esentially what occured. Even Turkish entry into WWI was predicated on the assumption that this would allow unfettered (from foriegn interferrnece) action to pursue the "Final Solution" to what was percieved as the problem for the Empire - its non-homogenity and the failing status of Turks vis a vis the minority populations. While the above version is stripped down due to brevity it is essentially the truth of what occured. That the result was Genocide - not only of the Armenians but of the other Christian elements and that the Nationalists carried this through and later imposed the same concept upon the Kurds is fact. The Genocide is fact. The perpetuation of it by dishonest Turkish elites and puppet governments is also fact. The Turkish blindness to the true history and replacement with nation building nationalistic myth is fact. That Turks such as carrot top have not the were-with-all and gumption to see out of the lies created to bolster this false history is an unfortunate and ultimatly shameful situation that Turks of future generations will have to live with and eventually live down. Perhaps Armenians will one day also have sympathy for you poor deluded Turks living in your Turkey uber alles dream worlds...once you somehow come to you senses and can accept reality and can show remorse, accept guilt and experience shame. In the meanwhile we can only pity your ignorance and lack of humanity that reflects the prevailing condition of your nation and your people for almost 100 years now - and that those Turks such as you who come here and spout ignorance and undeserved pride are a sad reflection of. Shame that - as there certainly have been and still are some Turks who see through this and we can salute them and only hope that others may one day figure it out and break out of the nasty cycle of denial that they are in. In the meantime it is not Turks as a people (or as individuals) whom we dispise - but those Turks - who by defintion of what they believe, condone and espouse and the manner in which they display no regard for decency and humility - and who insult us greatly by the blind venom and racist ignorant views they hold and express - it is you Turks who have no right to expect us to do other then dispise and denegrate you for the pityful ugly beings you have become.

Nothing new, this "version" of history resembles to me the situation of Reich before WW2. Playing with history and trying to establish similarities between Germany and Turkey, thus, trying to proove that Armenians also faced with what Jews faced. "Other", "Final Solution", "gas chambers"...Both Turks and Armenians have to stop playing and distorting the history. This "Fascist CUP leaders", "Turkish ultra nationalism", "how Turks feel themselves as superior race against Armenians"...
I personally don't have a syphaty towards CUP, I can easily blame them as adventurists, dictators who oppress and even conduct murders against opposition, etc. But with this Turkish Nazis stories you can not reach anywhere. I have the book of Ziya Gokalp and I didn't find any single word regarding Armenians or how Turks are superior against Armenians or such. I critisize the "official Turkish version" of history but you also have to look at the mirror and ask you this question: Are all these the reality or the official distorted version of Armenian history to create a similiar past like "victim Jews"?

[Siggie]

May I remind you all that this thread had a topic... rediscover it or the thread will be closed.

If you want to talk about other things or feel like the discussion is headed that way, start a new thread please.

[Otto]

i think "Evil Turk Religion" belongs to all Europeans... Everybody knows here that who is represented by who in FRP books.... actually met one with a foreword stating Evils are Turks and white cuties are Europeans... wish i could remember the name of the book..anyhow we Turks had helped that image to become a default setting in European Brain.... this mentality makes Armeinans european other than being Armenian...

the real thing that pisses me off is in fact i believe we are really barbarian and i know we are good at it... you cannot keep a barbaric empire for more than 500 hundred years..so please admit that we are systematic and born to be barbarian people... we are not those ignorant brainless horde that you usually call us...
for example hope we will all live long enough to see Kurds terminated in the future. (not that i want but i sense they got their ticket for the ride long ago and i personally advise them to work as hard as they could against Turkish Government to delay their pizza order)... as i read what winoman says i started to believe Kurds are in great danger... You see we have PKK and army still fighting...later some day in the future they (we Turks) are gonna say PKK is a kurdish terrorist group that killed 30 thousand Turks..and you know the rest... just like we are blaming you for cooperating with Russia and killing Turkish Villagers... Same story.. Kurds and an optional country cooperating against Turks... lol..it is so clear i think.... errr lets evacuate Kurds..


and Thai Samurai you are great....

[Otto]

ok... this law against genocide... it is because Belgium stated it was illegal to "say Genocide is not real"..and tried to arrest a Turkish proffesor for it... so we back fire with that law... Belgium is democratic.. so you have no right to say Turks are not democratic

[karakitap]

ok... this law against genocide... it is because Belgium stated it was illegal to "say Genocide is not real"..and tried to arrest a Turkish proffesor for it... so we back fire with that law... Belgium is democratic.. so you have no right to say Turks are not democratic

They are trying to create another genocide to excuse their big murder at ww2. All Europe was responsible from the Genocide. And Armenians saw that it is popular to be a victim. What bad is they are using the memorials of those innocent Armenians who died at ww1 during deportation to create themselves another genocide and to make some money from Turks. What a shame.

[Red Brigade]

If the Western Powers did something and punished the Turks ,like the Nazis, for the Genocide in the WWI,there wouldnt be a WWII.

[karakitap]

If the Western Powers did something and punished the Turks ,like the Nazis, for the Genocide in the WWI,there wouldnt be a WWII.

yes, indeed.

[winoman]

They are trying to create another genocide to excuse their big murder at ww2. All Europe was responsible from the Genocide. And Armenians saw that it is popular to be a victim. What bad is they are using the memorials of those innocent Armenians who died at ww1 during deportation to create themselves another genocide and to make some money from Turks. What a shame.

Department of State, Washington

May 29, 1915

Amembassy [American Embassy],

Constantinople.

French Foreign Office requests following notice be given Turkish Government. Quote. May 24th

For about a month the Kurd and Turkish populations of Armenia has been massacring Armenians with the connivance and often assistance of Ottoman authorities. Such massacres took place in middle April (new style) at Erzerum, Dertchun, Eguine, Akn, Bitlis, Mush, Sassun, Zeitun, and throughout Cilicia. Inhabitants of about one hundred villages near Van were all murdered. In that city Armenian quarter is besieged by Kurds. At the same time in Constantinople Ottoman Government ill-treats inoffensive Armenian population. In view of those new crimes of Turkey against humanity and civilization, the Allied governments announce publicly to the Sublime-Porte that they will hold personally responsible [for] these crimes all members of the Ottoman government and those of their agents who are implicated in such massacres.

Unquote.

R.G. 59, 867.4016/67

[karakitap]

You still could not get the point isn't it?

[karakitap]

wini, we are not talking about your genocide. we are talking about how ill nation that you are turned into. Stop this genocide thing and look at the mirror. This genocide obsession has turned your nation crazy.