Armenian surnames?

[karoaper]

Re: Armenian surnames?

Lucin? Tehran is that like in Alabama?

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian surnames?

Lucin? Tehran is that like in Alabama?

Actually, it's on the outskirts... Just a small town...

[sev_zeytun]

Re: Armenian surnames?

just curious, since you guys speak Turkish, but do you guys know if the surnames kuredjian, ketchedjian, martirosyan, and boyadjyan have turkish roots? and if they do have a turkish root, what do they mean?

[garod]

Re: Armenian surnames?

Over % 70 of words in Turkish language are not Persian or Arabic,if this was right,I could understand and speak fluently Persian or Arabic.Yes there are words but grammar is so different from these languages.

For example boyaciyan(boyadjyan);

boya-mak (verb):to paint
boyaci(boya-ci)(boyadji): painter
boyadjyan : most probably someone who paints walls,wooden or ..

if you would like to learn more information you can look the address below which finds ethimologhy of Turkish words. Tü(türkçe) means Turkish which is near the words.Thanks to Sevan Nişanyan.Really interesting an Armenian prepared a Turkish ethimologhy dictionary.

http://www.nisanyan.com/sozluk/search.asp?w=boya

keçeciyan:kece means "felt" in english but I am not sure that felt definets keçe in right meaning.keçeci is someone who produce felt (keçe)

P.S : also Sevan Nişanyan has got a superb internet address with his wife Müjde Nişanyan.It is the best guide of small hotels and places in Turkey,maybe one of you would like to have a holiday in these places one day in the future:

http://www.nisanyan.net/

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian surnames?

If you had noticed, I said earlier that it is a mélange of distorted (deformed) Persian/ Arabic (there, I was not being sarcastic) so the deformed Persian would not be understandable for you.
Sure the grammar is different but an overwhelming majority of the words are deformed Persian/Arabic words. One example that comes to my mind right now is the word ‘cinayeti’ (meaning crime), which comes from the Persian word ‘Jenayat’ and there are many more…

[garod]

Re: Armenian surnames?

Yes as I said there are many words from Persian,Arabic also French but this doesn't show that Turkish is a simple and not rich language.Reason of having lots of Persian and Arabic and also French words is that Ottoman policy which admired these languages and put Turkish in second class in the managament area.This is the same reason Why Armenians were in trade and Turks had to wait lands.Just stupid policy.Cause Ottomans just trusted Turks who could defence lands other would be in trade.Turks should awaited the lands,have been farmer and soldiers.Wrong Policies but I appreciate Armenians talent.

Turks are good at trade too in spite of late steps in trade.I know this from myself,my company sell lots of products(not foods) to the abroad.Israel,Spain,Middle Asia...

[Էլիա]

Re: Armenian surnames?

Is "Bilemjian" in Turkish? If it is, does anyone know what it means?

[Siamanto]

Re: Armenian surnames?

As most of the members of this forum, many Armenians I came across hitherto hated anything Turkish. But many of them had Turkish surmanes, mainly those which generally explained their ancestors' professions. (like Demirchjian, Dokmejian, Bastirmajian etc).
....
If I was an Armenian who hated Turks, I would do just as the Israelis did, and get rid of a Turkish label on myself.

I totally agree that there should be a clearly defined, proactive policy to erase anything that is reminiscent of *urks and/or *urkish/*urkic presence in our past and culture; because, one cannot free oneself from an undesired and undesirable past/oppressor unless the memory is totally erased. Simply said: Dirt and filth should be cleansed.

P.S.
Though
1- Surnames such as "Demirdjian" or "Dokmedjian" are - most likely - a reminiscence of the *urkish occupation - regardless of the origin of the words
2- The suffix "dji" or "ji" seems to be *urkish. In fact, "ji" is the genitive particle in Korean, another language of the Uralo-Altaic family. Keep in mind that in *urkish, the suffix "ji" - just like the genitive - also indicates belonging or origin such as "yabanci" - Japanese - and related to or characterized by as in "kerkhenedji."
3- The particle/operator "me" in "dokme" seems to be *urkish
However, are you sure if "demir" and "dok" are of *urkish origin?

Although the product itself (Bastirma) is 100% Armenian, the word defining it is Turkish.
......
And, I may be mistaken wheter Basturma is 100% Armenian or not. But I am sure it is not Turkish, except its name. Because if it was Turkish, people living in Central Asia would have an idea about it. You can never smell "chemen" at any inch Central Asia.

First of all, I agree with you that determining the origin of the word "basturma" and the basturma are two distinct efforts and they may have different origins.
Second of all, the concept - or product - seems to be specific to cultures to the West of Anatolia and unknown in Central Asia.

P.S. Isn't "chemen" - or cumin - also found to the East of Anatolia???

It is derived from the Turkish verb "bastirmak", which means to press-squeeze.

Is basturma pressed or squeezed meat??? The above explanation seems to reflect the *urkish naivete of basing etymology on homophony and seems as credible as the *urkish "explanation" of "Anatolia" as derived from "Ana" and "dolu."
Considering that
1- The concept - or product - is only/mainly found to the West of Anatolia
2- Basturma is dried meat - as in preserved
The Latin origin - i.e. as in "pastrami" - that means "preserved/saved meat" seems more plausible to me.

P.S. The "mi" in "pastrami" seems the same as in "salami" - i.e. salted meat

In Turkish language the product itself is called "Pastirma", probably because the letter "բ" is read in western Armenian as "p", unlike "b" in eastern Armenian, and Turks had accepted the way how the Constantinople Armenians named it.

It is called "bast@rma" among Western Armenians. Can the softening of the "b" into "p" be an influence of "Ata*urkism?"

Excuse me Lucin, I don't know where you are from. If you are living in the US I can understand why you are so ignorant about the languages of the orient.

As a person, who is quite an expert about foreign languages, I can assure you that the Turkish language that I learned up-to-date is something more than a melange of Farsi or Arabic. Of course it is not as melodic as Farsi, or as rich as Arabic, but its gramar is very very different from them.

Just curious, how well do you know Farsi or Arabic to call her "ignorant?"

It is true that - based on the grammar - *urkish belongs to the Uralo-Altaic family; but, most of it's vocabulary is borrowed from the Persian, Arabic or other languages.
*urkish vocabulary is limited to simple words to express familiar, simple and concrete objects. More complex is the concept expressed by a word and more likely it is a borrowed word. *urks did not even have words to express simple concepts such as man - "adam" - and animal - "hayvan;" LOL probably because they behaved as animals and couldn't distinguish themselves from the latter.





Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk," "*urkish" or *urkic" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations

[Siamanto]

Re: Armenian surnames?

demirci, dökmek, pastirma, ekmek.. are %100 turkish words. And Pastirma is 100% turkish, at least it doesn't belong to "Eastern Armenia". Greeks, Albanians, Serbs doesn't know it. Bastirma is known in ME where ex Anatolian Armenian minorities live.

Koylu, I see that you remain true to your *urkish self reflected by a provincial and simplistic mindset.
LOL So Serbs does not know it, but have a word for it?


Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk," "*urkish" or *urkic" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations

[Siamanto]

Re: Armenian surnames?

Sergey, this question is not painful. It's just a bit hard to answer, because you are asking few tens of people (active forumers here) why thousands (how did you get this number btw) of people haven't changed their family names. The reason for Turkish Armenian names is simple: since all trade and skilled occupation was in the hands of non-Turks, some Armenian families, specialized in a certain trade used the title of the trade in Turkish (the language of the country, where these minorities lived) in order to improve business.

Now, I would suggest that in general for Armenians, surnames are relatively sacred, because it ties you to all your ancestors, and changing one's surname is not a very light decision. In general these surnames were not a mark of shame, they were indeed a mark of Armenian ingenuity and relevance in a society as the skilled workers. The surnames that I think Armenians need to change are the ones that were adopted in order to seem more Turkish (usually removing the Armenian ending, leaving only a Turkish root). As far as I know there are very few Armenians with those surnames.

I hear you, but I totally agree with sergeyivanov: we should clean ourselves from all filth that stuck to us - accidentally or not - even if it painfully implies "losing some skin."
It goes beyond surnames and includes geographical names; it really saddens me when Armenians call Artsakh "Karabagh."

P.S. I always wondered if "Alaverdi" - in Armenia - is not a *urkified "asdoudzo dvadz," the equivalent of "Dieudonné" in French???


Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk," "*urkish" or *urkic" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations