Turkey's challenge to the Armenians

[elendil]

Turkey is very weak. It is held together by lies and denial. The recognition of the Genocide will destroy Turkey once and for all. The denial of the armenian genocide is what holds everything together. Once the truth comes to the surface.....

Do you really believe Turkey will disentegrate if it recognizes the genocide? You are not much aware of politics are you my friend? I know that Turkey will not disentegrate if it recognizes genocide claims but are you not giving naive Turks a solid basis to continue not to recognize claims by saying Turkey will come to an end? I would expect higher of you especially after your stating I am so out of touch and lacking of intellect...

[elendil]

Yes, I believe that's what he meant. The way our country was handed to us after the communism is not comparable to the way it is today. Not to mention the mentality of Armenia's population and how they're used to communism. It's hard to change all that over night. Everything takes time. We're getting there.

No doubt it must have a great impact to the economy of Armenia. Not to mention the different working mentality of communism and capitalism. Still you are growing very fast and I hope you grow richer every day. One thing I have found out in my short life yet, the worst neighbour is a poor neighbour ( in terms of states ofcourse). See to Turkey, Syria, Iran,Iraq , Armenia. We should open the border to Armenia by the way....If they retreat from Azerbaijan ofcourse..

[Tongue]

Some Armenians allied with Russians we were being hit. This is not a lie, we have eyewitnesses in the issue my friend's grandfather for one. I am sorry but when Russia left the fronts you face all fury of Turkish with a few armed groups. This is what war is, you do not differ innocent from guilty..

There we go again.

Are you sure your "eyewitnesses" aren't mistaking Russian Armenians with Ottoman Armenians? Armenia was divided at that time. Half of our people lived under the Russian rule and the other half with Ottomans. When the war started, Armenians living in Russia joined the Russian army. What part of this do you not understand?

[Tongue]

We should open the border to Armenia by the way....If they retreat from Azerbaijan ofcourse..

Armenia isn't going to retreat from Azerbaijan. Just like Turkey doesn't want to withdraw from Cyprus. Giving up Karabagh puts the lives of its people in jeopardy. Do you know anything about Karabagh, it's history and how its Armenian population were being treated when it was with Azerbaijan? Do you know what happened in Sumgait in 1988 (city in eastern Azerbaijan)? Now, if you know all that, how can you possibly expect Armenia to hand Karabagh to Azeris again? My guess is you don't know.

PS In 2004 Karabagh had a 15% GDP growth rate. We've built roads (with diasporas money collected every year through telethon) in Karabagh that makes it possible for farmers to take their products to other villages and sell it. Yes, they couldn't before!! Karabagh means more to us than you know. If you've been to Karabagh when it was still part of Azerbaijan and go back today you will see the difference we've made. Azerbaijan had completely abandoned Karabagh because of it's predominantly Armenian population. Other cities of Azerbaijan would get built but not Karabagh. Not to mention the living conditions. Now tell me again, why should we retreat from Karabagh?

[elendil]

There we go again.

Are you sure your "eyewitnesses" aren't mistaking Russian Armenians with Ottoman Armenians? Armenia was divided at that time. Half of our people lived under the Russian rule and the other half with Ottomans. When the war started, Armenians living in Russia joined the Russian army. What part of this do you not understand?

I trust that the old man can differ between Turkish speaking Armenian, or Russian speaking one. But then again the guy is dead,though he is not the only one. Russian Armenians may or may not have joined the Russian army. I doubt that Turkish people would mistake them being under ottoman rule or not. In this there is no part I dont understand..

Armenia isn't going to retreat from Azerbaijan. Just like Turkey doesn't want to withdraw from Cyprus. Giving up Karabagh puts the lives of its people in jeopardy. Do you know anything about Karabagh, it's history and how its Armenian population were being treated when it was with Azerbaijan? Do you know what happened in Sumgait in 1988 (city in eastern Azerbaijan)? Now, if you know all that, how can you possibly expect Armenia to hand Karabagh to Azeris again? My guess is you don't know.

Your guess is correct. Honestly I dont know. Or rather let's say I am at a loss. There are two sides of story, Azeri side and Armenian side. I really dont know which one to trust, I read a few articles in this forum and other forums but regardless of the side, all sources on the issue are sided.... A trustfull, unsided book advice will be most appreciated.

PS In 2004 Karabagh had a 15% GDP growth rate. We've built roads (with diasporas money collected every year through telethon) in Karabagh that makes it possible for farmers to take their products to other villages and sell it. Yes, they couldn't before!! Karabagh means more to us than you know. If you've been to Karabagh when it was still part of Azerbaijan and go back today you will see the difference we've made. Azerbaijan had completely abandoned Karabagh because of it's predominantly Armenian population. Other cities of Azerbaijan would get built but not Karabagh. Not to mention the living conditions. Now tell me again, why should we retreat from Karabagh?

This may be correct, I dont think you lie. However the issue is not about our people. Politics of Turkey depends on Turkey's interests, as you know when it comes to state's issues ethics is not a priority. I am taking a map of the region right now. I see Karabagh is of great importance to Turkey in terms of trade routes. Besides ıf Turkey can come to a deal with Armenia in terms of retreat of from Azeri goverment, the bond between two countries would get even better hence so would the flow of oil. I dont need to mention that these people are our kin...
So Turkey should offer deals to Armenia, regarding its interests. Ofcourse it is up to Armenia to take them or not....

[Gavur]

War is never the answer but it may be the only answer when it comes to Armenians historical rights in "Western Armenia"

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3916#post3916

[Doberman]

We should open the border to Armenia by the way....If they retreat from Azerbaijan ofcourse..

retreat from "azerbaijan"??? That is our historic land. Azerbaijan is a fictitious country based on ancient armenian lands. Prior 1918, no such country has ever existed. It was created by pan-turkists from the ottoman empire who occupied the region by force and set up a puppet regime in Ganja. The so-called "azeris" prior to 1918 had no national identity and were simply referred to as "caucasian muslims". pan-turks assigned the term "azeri" to the caucasian muslims to give them a sence of national identity, and thus basis for future claims to the iranian region of the same name, where millions of turks live.

No do you see Armenians significance? Iran will never allow the Armenians to withdraw. the greater the gap b/w azerbaijan and turkey, the safer iran feels. Same goes for russia, the greater the gap, the further Nato is from its from doors. With armenia gone, nato would be at russias front door. This is unacceptable to them. and lets recall our friend Vladimir zhirinovskys quote: "if turkey were to disappear off the map tommorow, that wouldn't make the slightest difference".

[Doberman]

Armenia isn't going to retreat from Azerbaijan. Just like Turkey doesn't want to withdraw from Cyprus.

The only difference is that Karabakh is historically Armenian, while Cyprus is an ancient greek land that was barbarically conquered by squatters from central asia.

WE TOOK BACK WHAT BELONGS TO US, THEY STOLE.

[elendil]

War is never the answer but it may be the only answer when it comes to Armenians historical rights in "Western Armenia"

Sorry to hear that..

No do you see Armenians significance? Iran will never allow the Armenians to withdraw. the greater the gap b/w azerbaijan and turkey, the safer iran feels. Same goes for russia, the greater the gap, the further Nato is from its from doors. With armenia gone, nato would be at russias front door. This is unacceptable to them. and lets recall our friend Vladimir zhirinovskys quote: "if turkey were to disappear off the map tommorow, that wouldn't make the slightest difference".

I never missed the geopolitical significance rather my comment were based on economy, military and manpower. If Turkey were to disappear middle-east will fall apart by a never-ending war between Kurds-Israel as a side and Pan-Arabic,extermist Islamic groups. Besides I dont care if we disappear nothing will change theory(which is not true). If we can change something when we exist only then I will feel fine...

[Tongue]

The only difference is that Karabakh is historically Armenian, while Cyprus is an ancient greek land that was barbarically conquered by squatters from central asia.

WE TOOK BACK WHAT BELONGS TO US, THEY STOLE.

Therefore, they have no right to expect us to retreat. That's what my point was, I guess you missed it or I wasn't clear enough.