Turkey's challenge to the Armenians

[sue35205]

.... My grand mother told me that ..........

P R E S I D E N T I A L - - R E P L Y:

Fellow Johnatan, that is not what your Grandma told me:
[ATTACH]219[/ATTACH]<---Click to See the Facts

Mosamee, GEORGE W. BUSH ne se lasse pas de répéter ses arguments sur la guerre en Irak. Il a encore deux discours à son programme, cette semaine, pour faire valoir qu'elle constitue un enjeu essentiel de la «guerre globale contre le terrorisme», ...

[Kharpert]

Sorry, I just had to.

Why dont you accept.. Europe is showing us something different. They want us to learn history how they want.

They are washing our brains from the primary school. They want us to hate Ottomans and Turks. Why do they make this?

It is just for to make our motherland destroy with hunger and misery. If they had made investment for Armenia. It would be better than to accept the Genocide for our people.

[Joseph]

I am a businessman working in France and originally I am an Armenian .
As far as I know that there was a genocide in ottoman empire. Last year I have gone to Turkey to see my grand parents.. My grand mother told me that "The ottoman government never did massacres it is just arguments of societies made by big countries. Ottomans were so strong if Ottomans want us to annihilate Armenians there wouldnt be any Armenians to support the Genocide idea." And she continued..."this is just the lies of big countries not to develop Turkey and not to make rich Armenia." I was shocked about her speech. She never told us anything about Genocide in her life and now I understand that she feels to make clarify something once in her life.

Then I return to France again and I get in touch with the politicians I know in parliament. When I was asking to accept the Genocide in French Parliament in 2001 they accepted and supported us but now they are refusing it. I am sure that this is a trap of Russia, France, United States, United Kingdom.

Yeah Jonathan, I think you're right. There were no massacres against Armenians. They just felt like suddenly leaving their homeland and venturing in the desert with no food or water and then throwing themselves at bayonets. In fact, there never were any Armenians in Anatolia.

I doubt you're Armenian

[1.5 million]

Yeah Jonathan, I think you're right. There were no massacres against Armenians. They just felt like suddenly leaving their homeland and venturing in the desert with no food or water and then throwing themselves at bayonets. In fact, there never were any Armenians in Anatolia.

I doubt you're Armenian

I second that doubt...

[imported_RUDO]

I paste some offical documents but you edit them. Why are you to be afraid from truths? If you REALLY believe your truths why are you afraid??? You can answer me with your documents. I paste offical documents. Let's show everything.
Don't afraid from truths, ok?

Can you give links of the sites you get offical documents from?By that way we can read them.

[Soorp Asdvadz]

There are so many facts that can be presented...just look at the New York Times...Hundreds of articles...you want political documents that give you proof that the Genocide occurred, look it up on Google...you'll get millions of sites

[Soorp Asdvadz]

http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=Armenian_Genocide

go here and see

[imported_willy_wonka]

but whyyy joseph please tell me why???
ottoman and armenian all leaved in peace in anatolia for hundreds of years...while ottomans were farmers, the government make Armenian handwerker, teacher, doctor...through its policy to make the unity in all 3 continental, he behaved better to christians or people in other religions and nations...for example in the years of wars for freedom and for a new Turkey Republic, Turks couldn't find a Turkish machinist...all the machinist were Armenian and these Armenian machinist help Turks in the wars against England, Greece and the other countries...
But some people including some Turks and people from other nations who didnt want a new Turkey Republic in the world, helped the enemies in the land of Ottomans while people were fighting for freedom against strong countries of that years.Ottoman should do something for these and a law was made which says "people who helps enemies in Anatolia will be taken to any other land of Ottoman, all their possesions will be written and after the wars they will again come to Anatolia having what they had before the wars..."
Turks never made a genocide especially to his brothers who lived together with them for years, who were their neighbours in the same village...They were the years when Armenians went to church, they could trust Turks and leave their home to them and the same for Turks for musque...what happened was in the years of wars and the affect of Russians...today we see that they succeded both in that years and both today...this is how 2 brothers can be made two enemies...
and i want to ask you why...why do you think Ottoman and Armenian lived in peace for centuries and then in a few years 1.500.000 Armenian killed if all those are really the truths??

[imported_willy_wonka]

and this is what levon panos Dabagyan(an Armenian historian) says about the relationship between Armenian and Ottomans:

"Armenian had many honorable service for Ottoman Empire for centruies.However some countries who had secret plans above Ottomans like England, France, Russia and USA, brainwashed Armenian by being religion brother to reach their aims and divided Armenians to sectarian and in years had Armenians in their control and made Armenians revolt against Turkey..."

these messages are for people who can discuss about these subjects without abusing...so if what a man know about history consists of abusing then he shouldn't discuss in forums that i see and believe it's serious like here...

[Joseph]

but whyyy joseph please tell me why???
ottoman and armenian all leaved in peace in anatolia for hundreds of years...while ottomans were farmers, the government make Armenian handwerker, teacher, doctor...through its policy to make the unity in all 3 continental, he behaved better to christians or people in other religions and nations...for example in the years of wars for freedom and for a new Turkey Republic, Turks couldn't find a Turkish machinist...all the machinist were Armenian and these Armenian machinist help Turks in the wars against England, Greece and the other countries...
But some people including some Turks and people from other nations who didnt want a new Turkey Republic in the world, helped the enemies in the land of Ottomans while people were fighting for freedom against strong countries of that years.Ottoman should do something for these and a law was made which says "people who helps enemies in Anatolia will be taken to any other land of Ottoman, all their possesions will be written and after the wars they will again come to Anatolia having what they had before the wars..."
Turks never made a genocide especially to his brothers who lived together with them for years, who were their neighbours in the same village...They were the years when Armenians went to church, they could trust Turks and leave their home to them and the same for Turks for musque...what happened was in the years of wars and the affect of Russians...today we see that they succeded both in that years and both today...this is how can 2 brothers can be made two enemies...
and i want to ask you why...why do you think Ottoman and Armenian lived in peace for centuries and then in a few years 1.500.000 Armenian killed if all those are really the truths??

This is my main problem with the official Turkish view. It's bad enough that they deny the genocide but that's to be expected. What I find worse it that they idealize the past as if the Ottoman Empire was some fantasyland and all was well and good but then those pesky Armenians rose up and stabbed the Turks in the back.

The Armenians lived in peace with the Turk because they kept to themselves, worked diligently, tried not to incite hatred from their overlords, were outnumbered, unarmed, but the most important point of all.....lived in fear. Their greatest fears were finally realized during the 1890's and WWI. Some of our ancestors saw the writing on the wall and were able to get out beforehand.

What is ovelooked is that Armenians were triple- taxed, unprotected from Kurds and Circassians brigands ( The Hamidiye was formed by Abdul Hamid specifically to harrass them), forced to board troops into their homes, constantly humiliated, not allowed to protect themselves, (for instance, an Armenian village would be attacked and in the case Armenians repulsed the atttack, guess who would be punished?) this is called "dhimmitude." As long as Armenians, Assyrians, Greeks, took a beating, were willingly robbed, exploited and never made a peep, all was well, at least for their Muslim neighbors.

Armenians are a mercantile people and have always been involved in trades in crafts. This is the case in Istanbul or even in the east but you must remember that the majority of Armenians in the east were lowly sharecroppers. The Armenians that would prove to be valuable to the Ottoman Empire and later the Turkish state were the only ones spared from murder. Dhimmis were protected as long as they proved useful. This had always been the case for the Armenians-throw them an occassional bone, exploit their brains, manpower, and work ethic and the rest can be ground into oblivion.

Lastly, do not blame Russians and Armenians for the Turkish involvement in WWI. Turkey started that conflict with the Russian at the behest of their German allies. Put the blame with those who deserve it, the CUP.