The Turks

[TurQ]

Yes I denounce earlier in the forum like 3-4 months ago I did.

Are you gonna denounce your current hatred and bigotry towards Turks and Muslims?

TurQ arent you going to denounce these crimes commited against the native Greek population of Istanbul?


What I say or believe is irrelevent here. Are you going to denounce these crimes or not?

[Bulgarian]

Yes I denounce earlier in the forum like 3-4 months ago I did.

Are you gonna denounce your current hatred and bigotry towards Turks and Muslims?

Bigotry is a strong word (it is actually very misleading because I am not a bigot).

I admit that I have said a few things against Turks and Muslims in some of my posts and for that I apologize that I swooped to the level of a Turkish politician in my responses to you.


Great now thats cleared up.


The Muslim Bow in the Balkans surrounding Greece. In the early 1990s, the conflicting interests of the major powers in the Balkans brought about the dissolution of the Yugoslav Federation into a number of small states. The abolition of communism, the civil war in Yugoslavia, the enforced liberalisation of Albania, the most fascist and most racist regime in Europe, created a new framework in which Turkey was not slow to find a role.

The Albanians were suddenly described as "brothers" by the president of the Turkish republic, Süleyman Demirel, the Bulgarians were controlled through the Muslim minority that supported the Bulgarian government and the leader of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Kiro Gligorov, was showered with promises by the hungry Turks.

The aim of all this was, of course, to exploit the conflict that existed in relations between these countries and Greece. Greece's problems with Albania began with the Greek Revolution of 1821, when Greece wanted to free Ipiros, a region inhabited almost exclusively by Greeks which in the eyes of Greece is Greek. Italy and Austria, however, wanted to establish an Albanian state and when the Greek forces reached Chimara in November, 1912, and Tepeleni in March, 1913, the Italians issued Greece with an ultimatum, demanding that they should not proceed to Avlona and the Adriatic coast. On 29th May, 1913, the London Conference, under intolerable diplomatic pressure from Italy and Austria, set up the Albanian state, thereby granting autonomy to a people that had never even asked for it!

___________________________


The Yugoslav republic clearly sought to trade on the Greek name for expansionist purposes in the future and cultivate a mentality of irredentism in the younger generation.

And naturally Turkey was the first country to rush headlong to recognise the fake name of the new republic whose inhabitants are an amalgam of Slavs, Albanians, Gypsies and Serbs with a small number of Greeks.

Geographically speaking, 70% of the land of ancient Macedonia belongs to Greece, 11% to Bulgaria and the remaining 19% to the former Yugoslavia.

Turkish officials go backwards and forwards regularly with a wealth of promises that have no security, expecting to create one more link in the Muslim Bow against Greece that runs through the Balkans. Albania, the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and Bulgaria form the basis of this bow which the Turks aim to establish in the name of peace and friendship between Balkan peoples. The Turks make hypocritical use of the pretext of peace and friendship whenever it suits them. They still have no hesitation, when circumstances dictate, in making a big song and dance about the need for "Greek-Turkish friendship", inventing and proposing to Greece whole packages of carefully designed initiatives to this end.

However, whenever Turkey starts to talk about Greek-Turkish friendship, Greece can be quite sure Turkey is merely paying lip-service to the idea and that it is a tactical manoeuvre.

The phrase used by Ismet Inonu, with reference to Eleftherios Venizelos, after the signing of the Treaty of Lausanne and proclamation of the Greek-Turkish friendship (" The fellow believed us!"), has gone down in history.

Zorlu and Menderes also spoke of Greek-Turkish friendship prior to launching the pogrom against the Greeks on 6th September, 1955.

The same thing had happened only a few months earlier, in March, 1964 when Turkey denounced the Trade, Establishment and Shipping Agreement signed by Greece and Turkey on 30th October, 1930; the result was the persecution and deportation of the Greeks who had stayed on in Constantinople.

Before the Turks invaded Cyprus, they again came out with the same patter about Greek-Turkish friendship to persuade the man at the head of the Greek junta, Giorgos Papadopoulos, to withdraw the Greek regiment stationed in Cyprus in order to facilitate the Turkish invasion that ensued. He believed them too!

In 1996, immediately after the major crisis engineered by the Turks over the Imia islets, Turkey began once more to beat the big drum about the need for Greek-Turkish friendship, offering up sweet and hypocritical words that had no substance. Their purpose was to get Greece to lift the veto it had imposed on any progress being made in the customs association agreement between Turkey and the European Union in April the same year.

Thus it is has been historically proven that whenever Turkey speaks of Greek-Turkish friendship, it seeks to achieve a specific goal and then, once this has been attained, it reverts to its abiding aggressive nature and its unshakable intention to put its expansionist strategy into effect.


Pan-Turkism: The Ideology of Turkish Expansionism. The phenomenon known as "Pan-Turkism", which first manifested itself at the beginning of the twentieth century, was to determine the course of Turkish diplomacy right up until the present day. According to this ideology, which is identified with the policy of irredentism in respect of lands inhabited by Turkish-speaking peoples, "Greater Turkey" should be established in territory in the Crimea, the Caucasus, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Siberia, Turkestan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Western Thrace, Cyprus and, of course, the Aegean islands.

[TurQ]

Bigotry is describing those actions.

Apologies are accepted, dont forget bigotry is the result of two things(sometimes they are inter-related), first is being racist, the second is being ignorant.

At this time I am accepting that this bigotry stems out of ignorance about Turks or Muslims.

An advice for you: A religon or a nation or a culture, or history can not be understood by some simple internet searches.



You can learn Turkish culture only from Turks and Islam only from Muslims. and humans by nature learn by interaction or socializing and the best knowledge comes from your OWN experience.
Right now you are terrible infected by some ideologies and ignorance.

I leave it to you to heal yourself my bulgarian friend.

[QUOTE=Bulgarian]Bigotry is a strong word (it is actually very misleading because I am not a bigot).

I admit that I have said a few things against Turks and Muslims in some of my posts and for that I apologize that I swooped to the level of a Turkish politician in my responses to you.


Great now thats cleared up.

QUOTE]

[Bulgarian]

Report about Turkish fascism

From: [email protected] (ozgurluk)Newsgroups: alt.politics.radical-leftSubject: Turkish fascism, the MHPDate: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 21:17:30 GMTTurkish Fascism, the MHP The following is the text of a pamphlet, spreaded during a picket-linebecause of a meeting of the MHP in the NetherlandsWHAT IS THE MHP, WHO'S INTEREST DOES IT SERVE? Over the last years the MHP has become stronger and more organized. Also inEurope they become more active. Their relation with the forces in theTurkish state who have the real power are to such an extent that we can speakof a close cooperation. How is this possible, and what are the reasons? Whyis it important to fight this organisation in a militant manner? We want todeal with these questions and start a discussion about this subject.THE FUNDAMENTAL POLITICAL OPINION OF THE MHP-FASCISTS.For understanding what the MHP means, it is necessary to look at thepolitical ideas of the MHP.Their ideology is called Turanism. The adherents of this ideology see "theirown people" (just like the Nazis), the Turkish people as a superior race."The whole world" belongs "to them". They dream of world domination. The MHP-fascists want a "Greater Turkey", just like the Nazis wanted a "GreaterGerman Empire".In concrete this means they want to subject all people and countries, fromthe Caucasus until the Balkan and from the Balkan until Middle Asia to theirslavery and put them under Turkish rule. Their active support andpropagandistic contributions for the fascist and racist Turkish state isbest proof for this.Their ideology does not allow any national rights to the Kurds, Armenians,Laz, Arabs, Syrians, etc. who live in Turkey (speaking freely in therenative tongue, learning this language or publishing in it, etc.). The MHPdoes not even recognize these peoples and threatens to "cleans" society fromnon-Turkish "elements" and it tries to put this threat into practice. Aslogan, used by the MHP, runs: "Either you become Turks and become proud tobe a Turk, or you'll have to reckon with your extermination."Of course there are differences between the policy of the Nazis and thepolicy of the MHP. However, these differences are marginal and arise fromthe differing circumstances in Germany and Turkey. Anyway, both groups havethe following similarities: They both serve the ones in power, both serveoppression till its most bloody form, one serves German imperialism, theother serves Turkish fascism.THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE MHP AND THE TURKISH STATE.We will now try to show how the MHP supports the ruling state in Turkey andwhat connections there are with the present-day Turkish state.The first important point is that we can not approach the MHP separated fromthe Turkish state. The MHP is integrated in the present-day fascist regimeand performs certain tasks for this state. In other words, if you want tounderstand the terror and the dictatorship in Turkey, you'll have to examineand understand the MHP.a) The education system. The education system is completely at the service ofTuranism. From the primary school up to the universities it is teached that Turkey is a superior nation and this is supposed to be proven with theformation of the Osman Empire. One tries to proof that the Osman empire hasa glorious and honourable tradition which is respected by all countries. Inthis way the pupils must be made proud of the fat to be an Osman. Suffice itto point anyone who believes this propaganda to the mass murders on f.i. theArmenians. This was a genocide which is denied by the present-day Turkishstate and the MHP as well, like the Holocaust is denied in some fascist circles. As the Kurdish people nowadays, the Armenians were exterminated bythe Turkish nationalist forces when they began to formulate demandsconcerning equal rights and independence.b) The slogans of the MHP are used by the government and the Turkish statepolicy.The slogan from the MHP-banner: "One Turkish world, from the Adrian Sea untilthe Chinese Wall" is also constantly used by the government parties andother parties in conformity with the system. Lies like "keeping together andbeing together", as well as racist and chauvinist slogans like "PKK:descendants of the Armenians" and "In the East and the West, Turkey iseverywhere and indivisible" are nowadays used daily by the Turkish state.However, it is not confined to common slogans. The fascist and racistprojects, once demanded by the MHP, like the creation of a "elite army" andthe expulsion from, mostly Kurdish, people from the country to round them upartificially in the cities in order that they can be controlled more easily,are nowadays put into practice by the Turkish state. The state does not stopat realizing the projects which are demanded by the MHP, she goes so far toinstall MHP-cadres on positions which are very important to the state. Forexample, a lot of governors in the Kurdish areas are members of the MHP.Furthermore the MHP got a special role to play in the "elite army".THE SPECIAL ROLE FROM THE MHP IN THE "ELITE ARMY".a) The training, build up and tasks of the "elite army". The "elite army" issubjected to the general staff of the Turkish armed forces. The personnelfrom this "special army" consists of experienced and especially selectedpersonnel from the Turkish armed forces. This "elite army" receives specialtraining, given by especially experienced members of the Turkish armedforces. The training personnel is partly trained by the German GSG-9.The following facts are admitted by the Turkish papers themselves who supportthe present-day regime: The members of this special army are preferablychoosen among members of the murderous, fascist MHP. The task of this "elitearmy" is in fact attacking the national liberation struggle of the Kurds andother revolutionary organisations and the execution of pogroms. In the areas,inhabited by Kurds, the "elite-units" set fire to the villages, oppresses thepeople by all conceivable means, and murders the villagers. This "elitearmy', which officially has to fight "terrorism", was created last year.Earlier the creation of a such-like unit was demanded for a long time by thechairman of the MHP, A. Tuerkes. One can postulate that the creation of thisspecial army was put on the political agenda by the MHP.Some pensioned generals report that a such-like unit exist already for alonger time. The difference with earlier days would be that in thepresent-day situation preferably MHP-members are taken in. Thus the MHP isgiven the opportunity to, within legal boundaries and led by the state, toattack the Kurdish, the democratic and the revolutionary movements. The"work", earlier done by the MHP on its own resources, is now done under theprotection and with support of the state and the military. Of course, inearlier days there has been a form of division of labour between the Turkishstate and the MHP. However, this division of labour was never admitted, orthis cooperation was concealed. Now we have to speak of a new phaseconcerning the problems of the fascist Turkish state. The political crisishas risen to a level, similar to the time prior to 1980. The oppositioninside the country is getting enormous proportions. Furthermore, the army is not capable of defeating the Kurdish liberationmovement military. The build up of the Turkish army is not suited forguerrilla warfare and a large part of the soldiers does not want this war, itis forced upon them. The MHP constitutes a reservoir of Turkishnationalists, prepared to kill and not shunning any means.b) The past role of the MHP within the "contra-guerrilla" and the earlierforms of cooperation with the MIT (Turkish Secret Service).It's not a new phenomenon that the MHP attacks and murders revolutionaries,democrats and non-Turkish patriots. A few examples from the past of jointactions from the MHP, MIT and the Contra-guerrilla.Bloody May Day, 1977 (Istanbul)39 workers are shot by fascists and driven over by armoured cars, more than200 workers are wounded.March 10, 1978MHP-fascists and agents from the contra-guerrilla throw bombs to the exit ofthe University of Istanbul and open fire upon the people with machineguns. 6democrats die and 50 students are wounded. Maras: this mass murder, jointly organised by the MHP, MIT and thecontra-guerrilla, cost the live of almost a thousand people. During thepogroms, which lasted for three days, women, children and elderly aremurdered at random. Shops and houses are set on fire.THE DAILY MURDERS FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE PRESENT-DAY TURKISH STATE AND THE ROLE IN THIS OF THE MHP. Almost every day people get murdered in Turkey by so-called "unknown forces".These death-squads only target individuals who are not highly agreeable tothe state. The perpetrators of these murders are never arrested, let aloneconvicted. It is plausible that these death-squads for the main part consistof members from the MHP.One of the most recent acts of terror where the MHP can be suspected ofhaving their hands in it, was the vile and cowardly assault on a cafe inIstanbul. This resulted in a three day long uprising from the people in theGazi-neighbourhood against the police and the army. The government tried toconvince the international opinion that it had been a religious conflict.However, during the uprising Alevites and Sunnites fought side by sideagainst the armed forces of the state. The way this action was executed: Atfirst a taxi-driver is kidnapped, his throat is cut and he is thrown in theback of his own car which is then used in a vile attack where the murderersuse machineguns against unsuspecting citizens. The way this attack wascarried out leads to the suspicion that the MHP, led by the MIT, must haveplayed an important role. Gazi is a neighbourhood with a lot of people whereleft has traditionally been strong.THE MHP ABROAD.The "Hollanda TUrk Federasyon" which organised a congress here today, is oneof the many cover-organisations of the MHP abroad. It was founded three months ago and this foundation fits exactly, one again,in the policy of the Turkish state. The Turkish state has made it its goalto estrange the European population from a.o. the Kurdish national liberationstruggle and the democratic forces of Turkey. Hundreds of thousands Turkishand Kurdish democrats live all over Europe and they try to put in their bestfor human rights, democracy, and self-determination in their homeland. Thisis a thorn in the flesh of the Turkish state. It was also recently decidedthat people with the Turkish nationality who live abroad may vote for theelections in Turkey. So the European platform has become very important tothe Turkish state. The MHP acts, more than willingly, as agent of the Turkishstate.The last action of the MHP in Europe was organizing the big demonstration asa protest against the founding of the Kurdish parliament in exile in TheHague. Everyone could see on Dutch television how thousands of Turkishnationalists made the sign of the Grey Wolves. The ring-finger and themiddle finger against the thumb, and the pink and forefinger up, representingthe head of a wolf.CONCLUSIONThe political crisis in Turkey - the present-day regime can only keep up byusing the most gruesome means -, the importance of the European platform forTurkish policy and the strengthening organisation of the MHP, signify thatthis congress will not be the last provocation of Turkish fascism. Alas, itis to be expected that the anti-fascist, the democratic and the solidaritymovement will be confronted more often with meetings like this in thefuture, with demonstrations like the one in the days of the founding of the Kurdish parliament, and even with manifestations of violence from the side ofthe MHP.Therefore, and for the fight for human rights, democracy andself-determination in Turkey, it is necessary to watch the MHP very carefully, to investigate her cover-organisations, and to make sure amovement arises which can effectively fight her.

[Bulgarian]

Eight main roads to fascism: Introduction
In identifying fascism, people are usually looking for violations of human rights, the reduction of freedom of speech and the presence of 1 big authoritarian leader.
Sometimes these three things occur simultaneously in a fascist regime, but they certainly don't determine whether a state is fascist or not.
For example: the Turkish fascist state recently reduced her limitation of freedom of speech. Now the Turkish people are allowed to speak of "Kurdish" people.
This doesn't mean however, that the Turkish state isn't fascist anymore. The only reason this change took place, was to be able to economically benefit (to reduce protest from European people against economical ties with Turkey).
Just a little while after this "change" political prisoners in Turkey were massacred.
This textis an attempt to find all the symptoms that accompanies fascism in its development, and which characterises most fascist movements. In this way it will give the criteria that determine fascism. This text forms the 'ideological basis' of the Antifascist Web (determines which reports are added and which not). You can help: e-mail me your remarks or additions.
1. Extra-exploitation
Something that is seen in every upcoming of fascism in history, is the extra-exploitation of the common men (workers, laborers or proletariat) that advances it and accompanies it.
Very high unemployment rates due to the increase of productivity, which benefits primarily the stockholders and richest layers of the population are just one sign of that.
Another one is the increase in difference between the poorest layer and the richest layer of the population. Also the destruction of social benefits accompanies this: social security is reduced, the ability to get good education for most of the population is reduced,...
Demands as the one for an education or health care accessible to all are under continues attack.
The fascist parties and movements are the first to call the unempoyed, lazy people, while there's a structural economical basis for unemployment. By distorting the view on the real reasons, they open the possibility to gain support to reduce the rights and financial situation of the unemployed. On the other hand, they hide the mega-profits of huge industries and multinational corporations.

2. Antisyndicalism
This is a point that is not public knowledge in all countries. But all fascist variations that can be found also contain antisyndicalism: the differences in interests between the owners of the companies (who want to lower the costs of production), and the workers (who want to earn at least a decent living) are denied by fascism.
This results in the denying of the usefulness of strikes and labour unions.
When, in reality these are the only means of the workers to defend themselves against lowered wages, increase of workload, social security cuts,...
So, something that can be found in every fascist state is the oppression of syndicalism. Not only by using brutal violence, sometimes also by the organisation of state-controlled 'unions' which don't defend the workers interests, but serve to keep the workers under control.
3. Nationalism
Mainly there are two kinds of nationalism: progressive and not-progressive. The Antifascist struggle of the Kurdish people is also a nationalist struggle, here nationalism is certainly progressive: the people are actually oppressed and mass-murder is committed because of 'bluth und bodem'-like theories (take a look at <A href="http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1131/peru_and_turkey.html#Kurdistan">the why and how of the Antifascist freedom struggle in Kurdistan).
In other cases like Belgium and France (Europe), nationalism is certainly a way how fascism introduces itself, the Flemish people aren't oppressed in Belgium in any way. So Flemish nationalism isn't progressive at all. The opposite is true: in Belgium the Flemish nationalism serves to oppress foreigners to a certain degree and it reduces solidarity between the Dutch-speaking and French-speaking part of the country.
As a result of this, education delivers history manipulation or falsification and indoctrination in fascist states. This also happens at this moment in Turkey.
One could say that almost all fascist movements have nationalist ideologies, but that nationalism isn't always bad, depending on the conditions of the country.

4. Racism
Most fascist groups are racist ones or defend at least an inequality theory, sometimes the racist character of the fascist movement might be hidden, because of laws against racism or for public image.
Some people (those defending fascism) are seen superior than others. These others might be groups of people with certain visual different characteristics: blacks, handicappers,... or people with different opinions: antifascists, communists, syndicalists, antiracists, anti-imperialists,...
The oppression used against one group hides and argues the oppression used against the other one and vice versa.
Hitler for example said that all Jews where communists, and that they had a 'Marxist' believe, which would lead to a domination of the Jews world-wide, which would lead to the destruction of all civilisation (from 'Mein Kampf').
Of course this is rubbish, but the anticommunist hatred was defended with antisemitism, and antisemitism with anticommunism! (see point 8: anticommunism)
The 'religious right'-movements in the USA, form at this moment one of the most advanced fascist forces. Their racism is based upon an irrational hatred towards the most vulnerable ones in society. The're presented as liars, big thiefs and biggest profiteers. But how on earth can the terror and discrimination of blacks and others mean an answer to the deep structural economical crisis of the capitalist system? Every word against them is a protection of the real responsibles for the social problems: the big capitalists and multinationals. If the workers don't unite with there colored brothermen, they won't be able to halt the destruction of their social and economical rights. The racist lie, repeated over and over again, causes a blind and beastly hatred. Those who're influenced by that blind hatred, become themselves primitif beings that can be directed into the most insensitive adventures. By using racism and nationalism, Hitler transformed millions of germans in murderers.
Racism only serves the richests on this earth.
5. Oppression
Oppression is something that can be seen in all fascist states.
Oppression of people who want to stop one or more of the points enlisted here.
In fascist states this is more then just 'oppression' by reducing the rights to speak, it's often also the physical liquidation of their opponents. They use elite forces and so-called 'central intelligence' to practise it, sometimes combined with death squads.
The feelings of insecurity of the people, caused by expensive health care and other crimes, are canalised by fascists towards little criminality. That kind of criminality that's seen among young unemployed without future. To end that kind of criminality, one must give them a job with a decent wage and a future.
With their big fuss about little criminality, fascists try to increase the militarisation of police and arms for repression. This has nothing to do with little crimes but with the repression of (future) mass movements that stand up against their exploitation.
The real criminals, the big criminals are big, fat capitalists and imperialists that traffic arms and drugs. These pigs are respected super-riches! According to Interpol, the international drugs maffia realises 500.000.000.000 dollars every year. This is one of the biggest economical sectors in the capitalist world economy. The youngsters that commit little crimes aren't the big criminals!
6. Neo-colonial oppression or imperialism
There exists a difference between the Third World countries, and the rich, industrialised ones:
Fascism in the rich and industrialised countries sees the poverty of the Third World as a result of the politics of their own stupid leaders. With this they argue that anti-imperialists that show that these Third World leaders are brought to power by foreign imperialist countries to defend their interests, and not those of their own country, are just trying to give a false guilt to the people of the industrialised countries. And they say that leftists are just making the exploitation of the Third World up, so they can blame capitalism. On the other hand, you can find a text <A href="http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1131/afrika.html">here about Afrika, which exactly illustrates the claim of anti-imperialists.
Also the anti-imperialists show that many 'poor' countries are directly foreign-controlled, for example by the IMF (International Monetarian Fund) or the Worldbank, with just one aim in mind: paying back their foreign debts. These debts are often made by 'white elephants': enormous western prestegeous projects which are responsible for most of the foreign debt, and which resulted in no or very little profit.
Fascists say the Third World is responsible for their own debts, and that they are forced to pay them. In reality these debts are responsible for the ever growing gap in richness between the industrialised Western countries and the Third World, and actually keep the Third World poor. This is called the neo-colonial oppression.
The fascists in the Third World also don't walk the anti-imperialist road. Often they're even directly financed by imperialist countries to defend the neo-colonial order and to eliminate physically everyone opposing it.


7. War preparation
Or militarisation is needed to fight a war against the 'inner-state-enemy', described often as rebels, terrorists or communists; but this is often the whole antifascist movement.
Or this militarisation has the purpose of an expansion-politic towards the 'outer-state-enemy'. Where the war is offered as a possibility to gain cheap labour forces and to get the land out of the economical crisis.
The police becomes militarised and central intelligence gets more power.
Fascists support the agression against Vietnam, which was a crime against humanity. Also the terror against Nicaragua by the contras and the CIA is supported by the fascists. European fascists want an armed euro-force that's "ready to defend European intrests all over the world"... it won't be the intrests of the common man that one's going to defend! 8. Anticommunism
One way to discredit the antifascist movement is by calling it communist or mad left extremists, accompanying it, anticommunist lies are spread.
Media lies were spread during the Golf Crisis, the intervention in Somalia, the installation of the 'Zone Turquoise' in Rwanda, about Yugoslavia,...
In summarisation: every time the oil-industry and other industries benefited from it (Somalia: to be able to control the oil transport through the Suez channel, Iraq: an oil-producing country wanting higher prices and Yugoslavia: to control the Kaukasus, which would contain oil-reserves as much as the Middle East), or when the neo-colonial order was endangered (Rwanda, Vietnam,...).
Communists are the most direct opponents of possessors of factories, stockholders, financial groups,... (since the primary aims of communism is the collectivisation of means of production).
Therefor it's not difficult to understand that these capitalists will try to stop the communists by any means possible. Media groups are also owned by the most upper-rich-part of the country (or by foreign rich stockholders), so it isn't difficult to imagine anticommunist actions there.
Communists formed and still form an important group of people in the Antifascist struggle, we need to maintain this unity and should not let this unity blow away by the common "divert and rule"-tactics of fascists or by fanatic anticommunists.
Internationally seen, the fascist groups are often diverted by their contradictory nationalist and racist demagogy, the common anticommunist ideology forms one of their important unifying ideological forces.
During world war II the fascists formed the basis for much anticommunist lies, later spread by the CIA to fight 'the red danger'.
Also in Peru <A href="http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1131/²lies_against_pcp.html²">anticommunist lies are spread to hinder the Antifascist fight.
German fascism lead to the second world war under the pretext of fighting jewish-bolshevism. Nazi's from Germany, Kroatia and other places are the most barbarous murderers in history of humanity. In the former Sovjet Union alone, they killed 23 million persons. See The history of Antifascism and fascism.

[TurQ]

Thanks for letting us know where you get your information
"alt.politics.radical-left"


I advice to you to get your information from "radically correct" resources
not from PKK terror resources you were telling me that you are against terror but you take your information from terrorists, I think that's a contradiction on your side

From: [email protected] (ozgurluk)Newsgroups: alt.politics.radical-leftSubject: Turkish .

[Bulgarian]

I dont get all my information from there. I get my information from a wide range of resources.

Heres some more information from the alt.politics.radical-left





The préfecture of the Rhône département authorized a demonstration of Turkish skinheads, that came from Germany by bus, to protest against a project of a memorial of the Armenian genocide.

The protest of the Turkish extremist group, called the 'Gray Wolves', started at place Bellecour, in front of the equestrian statue of king Louis XIV. They benefited of the protection of the CRS, and therefore of the French state. On the signs, the Turkish negationnists claimed "There never was an Armenian genocide!"

Greetings,
SUXXES.



Turkish Racists that live amongst good European Folk.

Grey Wolves (xxxkurtlar in Turkish) is the common name for the members of the Turkish Nationalist Movement Party ("Milliyetçi Hareket Partisi", MHP), an ultra-nationalist movement founded by Alparslan Türkeş in 1961.
They are named after a legendary wolf that led captive Turks to freedom. Their formal name in Turkish is ülkücüler (the idealists) and Ülkücü Hareket (The Idealist Movement) (see Actual Idealism). Their female supporters are called Asena.

Like all other parties, MHP was banned after the military coup of September 12, 1980 and it lost many of its core cadres to the neo-liberal Motherland Party or various vestiges of the Islamist movement.
The founder of the MCP ,Alparslan Turkes is a noted[1] admirer of Adolf Hitler. This organization has a racist and facist ideology with strong Nazi-like ideology.

The Nationalist Task Party ("Milliyetçi Çalışma Partisi", MÇP) was founded in 1983 as a successor to the MHP, and as of 1992 is again known as the MHP.

The para-military wing of the Grey Wolves were covertly supported by the CIA and were invisioned to be used as anti-communist insurgents in an event of a Soviet invasion of Turkey[1].

A significant pillar of the MHP's ideology is the dream of creating the Turan, the Great Turkish Empire, including all Turkish (sometimes referred as Turkic) peoples mainly in the successor Central-Asian countries of the former Soviet Union as well as China (the Uyghurs of East Turkestan). This racist and supremicist ideology is similar to Nazi concepts of German master race and to the German expansionist policies which led to WWII[1].

The MHP opposes any concessions to Kurdish separatists, namely the PKK. Despite being anti-PKK they have also Kurdish supporters who are mostly of the Zaza-tribe. The paramilitary wing of the Grey Wolves have been utilized by the Turkish intelligence services to assassinate Kurdish leaders[1].

The MHP has ties to the Turkish mafia and to the Turkish intelligence services[1&3].

The "Grey Wolves", in particular Abdullah Çatlı, have allegedly worked with Gladio "stay-behind" networks, according to Le Monde diplomatique [1]. The 1981 attempt on Pope's life may even have been manipulated by this NATO clandestine structure, according to Lucy Komisar. She underlines the fact that Mehmet Ali Ağca, the failed assassin, was a Grey Wolves member who had worked with Abdullah Çatlı in the 1979 murder of a left-wing newspaper editor. "Çatlı then reportedly helped organize Ağca's escape from an Istanbul military prison, and some have suggested Catli was even involved in the Pope's assassination attempt" reports Lucy Komisar, adding that at the scene of the Mercedes-Benz crash where Çatlı died, he was found with a passport under the name of "Mehmet Özbay" - an alias also used by Mehmet Ali Ağca [2].


In 2004, the Grey Wolves successfully prevented the screening of Atom Egoyan's Ararat, a film about the Armenian Genocide [2], [3].

1. <LI id=_note-lee>↑ a b c d Martin A. Lee. The Beast Reawakens:Facism's resurgence from Hitler's Spymasters to Today's Neo-Nazi Groups and Right Wing Extremists.
2. ↑ Lucy Komisar. The Assassins of a Pope. URL accessed on 07/04/2006.

From: [email protected] (ozgurluk)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.radical-left

Subject: Turkish fascism, the MHP
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 21:17:30 GMT

[TurQ]

OK your time is up, no more asnwers to you

Bigotry bigotry bigotry, thats the word that can only describe you, the sad thing is you are not aware that you are infected by it.

I leave you with your radical left and radically corrupted/biased resources aka alt.politics.radical-left.

Funny thing is you probably read no more than 10% of those materials that you post'

I dont get all my information from there. I get my information from a wide range of resources.

From: [email protected] (ozgurluk)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.radical-left

Subject: Turkish fascism, the MHP
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 21:17:30 GMT

[1.5 million]

While much of this info is a bit dated and some is perhaps speculation it does point to a real problem in Turkey - Facism is basically accepted as just OK - and in fact as we have seen by the anti-Armenian Grey Wolf inspired protests against the Armenain Genocide confernece held in Istanbul last year - in many ways these sort of beliefs are very mainstream in Turkey and tend to carry the debates of the day.

So TurQ - instead of again making excuses - attempting character assasinations - blame the victim - question sources - and so on and so forth - ie your usual (and pretty much exclusive) tactics - why won't you just answer the question posed to you by Bulgarian? Is it really so difficult to utter a critical word about your nation Turkey? My - you wouls think you were a Grey Wolf or something....

[TurQ]

There is absolutly no point related.
those demonstrations are done by worker's party perincek gang
they shake hands with PKK then become natioanlist, they are just clowns.

Unless you have not seen these photos , i advice you to look at it, and tell me where is facism.

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14121&postcount=17

These photos are not fake, they the Perincek gang published these photos back in late 80s,in their own periodical called 2000'e dogru (towards 2000s)

These guys are much like clowns, nothing else, sometimes this sometimes that. What you are telling is not tolerated. You make your claims out of fiction


Well charachterless people deserve character assasination dont you think so

While much of this info is a bit dated and some is perhaps speculation it does point to a real problem in Turkey - Facism is basically accepted as just OK - and in fact as we have seen by the anti-Armenian Grey Wolf inspired protests against the Armenain Genocide confernece held in Istanbul last year - in many ways these sort of beliefs are very mainstream in Turkey and tend to carry the debates of the day.

So TurQ - instead of again making excuses - attempting character assasinations - blame the victim - question sources - and so on and so forth - ie your usual (and pretty much exclusive) tactics - why won't you just answer the question posed to you by Bulgarian? Is it really so difficult to utter a critical word about your nation Turkey? My - you wouls think you were a Grey Wolf or something....