Am I Armenian?

[bell-the-cat]

I want to know one thing(I asked it).Were Kurds in a desperate situation in WW1?(like my ancestor)

In 1916/1917 Dersim was on the front line between the Russian and Turkish armies. There was a lot of fighting there between them, and also many gangs of bandits composed of deserting Turkish soldiers, as well as starvation amongst the local population. So there were plenty of reasons for parts of that population to try and leave even though they were Muslim.

[bell-the-cat]

Though, when did your great great grandfather leave? There was a series of rebellions in Dersim in the 1920s, which the Turkish army put down with great brutality. Did he leave then, or in 1915, or in 1917?

[ScythianVizier]

Kurds and Armenians (and Persians) are closely related gentetically and historically. So not sure any genetic test can specifically distinguish one from another per se. Additionally you are correct - many Armenains "became" Kurds to escape Turkish persecution/slaughter. I've heard of Kurdish Christians even Christian Kurdish villages in Turkey...think about it for a bit...and it is no accident that the Turks are continuing thier genocidal campaign against the Kurds much as a continuation of what was done against the Armenians.

Several years ago I met a Kurd in Van who (through another Kurd acting as translator) claimed to actually be Armenian. He certainly very much looked as if he might have been Armenian - but many Kurds do eh? Anyway he was very interested in killing someone on my behalf but I declined the offer at the time.

The genetic refering kind of reminds me the ideas derived from Doctor Mengele's secret workshops. I wonder why would people sit for the DNA tests anyway?

Could you please explain? Thus, I wonder as whether you did sit for such test or not, and if yes, what was the outcome?

[ScythianVizier]

RUDO we are all Armenians.


Armenians to me seem to be a small nation of hardy people that stand up to Turkish facism.

So this is why todayI will say that I am an Armenian and I stand behind the Kurdish race (that largest race that doesnt have a nation). Erdogan has said that he will stop a Kurdish nation even if it established outside of Turkey. This is how much he hates the Kurds.


PS I posted a few pictures of Turkish barbarity against Kurds in the thread something needs to be done about the Turks.

So, you are the one who talks about fascism? You did deport more than 1 million Turks and muslims after 1923, and you did continue with this oppressive strategies until today. Remember? Today, the population of Bulgaria gradually declines, can you tell us why?

[ScythianVizier]

TurQ Iraq is a socalled "nation" created by the British after world war 1. There has never been a country called Iraq before WW1.

The creation of Iraq meant there was no Kurdish state created and it also meant that large territory was under British mandate. Iraq should be split into a Kurdistan in the north and a Arab territory in the south. The Turkomen can live in Kurdistan and have better rights than Kurds have living in Turkey currently have (as is the case). Is there anything wrong with Syria, Turkey, Iran and Iraq give up land for the formation of a Kurdish nation?

The socalled Turks in Bulgaria are mainly Muslim Bulgarians. As is the same for the Turks in Greece - they are just Muslim Greeks.

Are you sure Erdogan is just frightened of a Kurdish nation in Iraq because as natural progression dictates it will undoubtably lead to a northern Kurdistan being established from land currently owned by the Turkish republic (which they neglect and land that has hardly any Turks in at all)

The formation of Iraq (and Middle East) was decided in the sinister strategy rooms of Europe even before the start of the WWI. The British and French did know nothing about the Middle East and that is why, they did draw some country maps in line with their artistic intentions. As one could witness in the Middle East, nobody enjoyed their imperialistic maps at all.

[ScythianVizier]

I condone neither mistreatment of Muslims (or denial of desired culture) in the various balkan nations just for being Muslim (regardless of ethnicity or regardless of association of such to the Ottoman overlords of the past) - neither do I condone the countermasacres against Muslims in the Balkans during the early 2oth century...however I do understand the feelings of the various non-Muslim Balkans who experienced centuries of repression under Turkish overlords who were severe and unforgiving in their administration of these lands and their mistreatment of the local populace. Certainly a great many of those who are Muslim now in the Balkans and even a great many now considered as Turks in Turkey but who originally came from this area are in fact not the least bit Turkish (ethnically) - but OK - they are now Muslim and they are now "Turk" - it is past being an issue IMO - it is their choice and it is their culture and we should respect that and not be predjudiced because of their choice (or destiny as it were) - neither should we let the feelings of association with past Ottoman masters lead to blind hate. All that being said - I would love it if you - Bulgarian - could provide us with some links to information concerning the domination of your lands by the Ottoman Turk and accounts of the various massacres and repression that I know occured. For while I greatly sympathyze with those Turks who suffered when the various Balkan states and Greece threw off their repressive Turkish masters - I cannot agree with the various Turkish claims that it was they who were first victimized. In the end we all need to understand that their are guilty and their are innocent and this is true among all "races" - we need to better understand the forces and relationships between overlord and conquoring peoples and those subjegated who yearn for self expression adn self-determination. This again goes for all peoples. We could all use more tolerance and respect and we could all do better to understand the dynamics of repression and victimization and understand the charachteristics of those who tread on the rights of others - and why...

I must admit that you bear some excellent mindset to find execuses for the crimes commited on behalf of the imperialist European states. In a sense, if you could work sufficent enough on these perceptions, then I am sure that you could even find execuses for the proto-concentration (plantation) camps that existed in each European colony.

[ScythianVizier]

RUDO this whole topic is a complex situation. There are many reasons for this which I will try and deal with as many as I can think of:

Firstly many Armenians took refuge with Kurdish families.

Many Armenians also took refuge with Turkish families.

The younger Armenians (wherever orphaned or not) most likely never learnt Armenian. This is due to several factors such as fear of being targeted again or the lack of Armenians to teach them Armenian.

Some Armenian women were also married off to Kurdish or Turkish men whether forcibly or not.

Another important problem is that Turks (Im not sure about Kurds) only adopted surnames after the genocide had taken place. Someone will have to correct me if Im wrong but I think surnames were made compulsory in 1934. This makes it hard for Turks to trace relatives and family connections pre 20th century.

The Turks were not the keepers of records and considering a large section of eastern Turkey was illiterate memories and words spread by mouth. If someone Armenian ancestry is not mentioned - it becomes forgotten or even perminantly lost.

Oh RUDO it is highly unlikely you are half Armenian. Unless one of your parents is Armenian or if both your parents are half Armenian. It is possible that you have partial Armenian ancestry but that would only be a small percentage of your makeup.


Heres a website about Cryto-Armenians in Turkey (although I know if its all facts): http://www.geocities.com/cryptoarmenians/index.html

Not correct, the Ottoman names were associated with several distinctive elements, such as Osman, the son of Ali from the village of Troy in Canakkale, and who was born in year January 12th of the year 1900. So, it is traceable for the ones who did get a record of their birth certificates.

[imported_RUDO]

Though, when did your great great grandfather leave? There was a series of rebellions in Dersim in the 1920s, which the Turkish army put down with great brutality. Did he leave then, or in 1915, or in 1917?

I don't know exact time, but it must have been 1915.

[imported_RUDO]

But if Rudo's great great grandfather came from Dersim then he was Armenian, ethnically anyway, if it is accepted that the Dersimli were originally Armenians.

Yes he migrated from Dersim and even now my father is proud of being Dersimli.

[1.5 million]

I must admit that you bear some excellent mindset to find execuses for the crimes commited on behalf of the imperialist European states. In a sense, if you could work sufficent enough on these perceptions, then I am sure that you could even find execuses for the proto-concentration (plantation) camps that existed in each European colony.

How dare you accuse me of comming up with excuses for crimes commited againt other human beings!

I have neither ever advocated the position that colonial slave labor camps or slavery in general is acceptable - either in the Amaericas...or in the Balkans as practiced by Ottoman Turks!