do you really believe...

[karakitap]

When they are not capable of saying anything do they hire you?
Where are your positive Armenian friends by the way?
Why don't they reply instead of you?
I think they don't love you as you love them

[Anonymouse]

When they are not capable of saying anything do they hire you?
Where are your positive Armenian friends by the way?
Why don't they reply instead of you?
I think they don't love you as you love them

If I recall correctly the only thing Turkey can really stand behind is attempts at improving coffee.

[Thai-Samurai]

Thanx Otto; now that Arafat's dead you get the Global Peace Prize.

[karakitap]

Hey Otto, say hello to your "friends"..

[Otto]

Hello and hello to you too. Just tell me your main goal without any emotions plain and simple. I think you are here to discuss something. Instead you are insulting me (at least you think you do). Stop being cheap

[karakitap]

Hello and hello to you too. Do you need anything else for your ego to be satisfied.

No thanks. Seeing how you urge symphaty from your friends but they behave you as bastard is enough for me.
Don't they love you poor guy?

[Otto]

I am a Turk and am behaving like one. Respectfull and polite. Please tell me what i am doing wrong. I will seriously think on your opinions.

[winoman]

If I recall correctly the only thing Turkey can really stand behind is attempts at improving coffee.

Actually I think you are mixing Turks with Yemenis here - but at least good that some Armenians can give Turks some credit - eh?

I hardly know where to begin on this thread. I do second (or third) Otto's suggestion that perhaps there ought to be a required reading thread for Turks who come onto this forum. Beyond that I supose we will see this same accusation and counter accusation again and again - oh well. What I do find interesting is how well many (most all) of the Turks who come here have unquestionably ingested and are able to regurgitate the offical Turkish propoganda line...and how current they are on what that is...

Sadi jokes about how Armenians think they know all...well from the attitudes and presentation of most of the Turks who come here I would have to conclude the opposite. What is sad is how little the Turks who come here and sling acusations really know. Its as if they have read some promotion on the back of a cereal box and suddenenly they are expert...quite sad. Let me just state that the vast majority of these Turkish claims are just not true - they have been disproven by academicians and historians who have studied the events and history and documentation. And even the few Turkish beliefs concerning this that have merit are taken out of context and exxagerated to the point where the claims become false and certainly in no way counter or justify that there was a Genocide of Armenains and that the CUP was the perpetrator and cause of all the misery.

What most of the Turks who come here are spouting is in fact a direct reflection of the propoganda used by the Young Turks to justify what they were doing - and they were desperate to do such. These claims are entirely countermanded by the evidence of the time. The real reasons for the CUP effort to exterminate the Armenians are well known - and they did not arise from Armenian provocation nor from any Armenian desire to break away from the Ottoman EMpire. While a few revolutionaries may have had this idea (and even acted violently on it) - there was no actual effort of any significance underway to actually enact such a policy from the Armenian population at large - who were loyal Ottoman citizens trying to succeed and perhaps lessen the depridations that had been occuring against them - particularly since the early 1900s with the advent of increasing Kurdish settlements among them and unchecked (even encouraged) predetory behaviors of such.

Even Justin McCarthy has admitted this and has admitted that before WWI the idea of Armenian nationalism was an abject failure. Armenians - particualry of Western Anatolia were Ottoman citizens and expected to be such. Anyway - as Otto has said I've already explained these things many times already. What is important is that the Turkish people are being decieved by the Turkish government - even on the point of Armenian hatred towards Turks. Sure Armenians have great resentment and hurt - who wouldn't - not only due to the Genocide itself - that most Turks who come here seemingly cannot at all comprehend - like why would Armenians be upset - think about it a bit - but because of the current actions on the part of Turkey (including continuing to erase the memory of Armenians in Anatolia and thei enourmous contributions to the Ottoman Empire and to this region prior to the comming of the Ottomans). Just imagine how you might feel if this was being done to the Turks instead of the reverse...

And just because some hotheads here spout garbage and others vent their frustrations (at the shamful and insulting rhetoric of ignorant Turks who come to this forum) and because Turkey tells Turks that everything Armenians are doing and thinking is a plot against Turkey and just an attempted land grab etc - well this does not make it so. Most Armenians do not hate Turks or have any desire for lands etc - but yes we do want recognition for the crimes commited against us and an end to this shameful Turkish campaign of villainization of the victims. And thats right - contrary to Turkish claims it is the Armenians who are the victims and not the other way around. Please do some actual research into this issue before you just parrot the Turkish propaganda claims. And if come here actually seeking some diologue rather then just slinging baseless accusations - then perhaps you will be treated more plesently. Otherwise you can expect no less then how you have been recieved here - and justifyably so.

[karakitap]

Actually I think you are mixing Turks with Yemenis here - but at least good that some Armenians can give Turks some credit - eh?

I hardly know where to begin on this thread. I do second (or third) Otto's suggestion that perhaps there ought to be a required reading thread for Turks who come onto this forum. Beyond that I supose we will see this same accusation and counter accusation again and again - oh well. What I do find interesting is how well many (most all) of the Turks who come here have unquestionably ingested and are able to regurgitate the offical Turkish propoganda line...and how current they are on what that is...

Sadi jokes about how Armenians think they know all...well from the attitudes and presentation of most of the Turks who come here I would have to conclude the opposite. What is sad is how little the Turks who come here and sling acusations really know. Its as if they have read some promotion on the back of a cereal box and suddenenly they are expert...quite sad. Let me just state that the vast majority of these Turkish claims are just not true - they have been disproven by academicians and historians who have studied the events and history and documentation. And even the few Turkish beliefs concerning this that have merit are taken out of context and exxagerated to the point where the claims become false and certainly in no way counter or justify that there was a Genocide of Armenains and that the CUP was the perpetrator and cause of all the misery.

What most of the Turks who come here are spouting is in fact a direct reflection of the propoganda used by the Young Turks to justify what they were doing - and they were desperate to do such. These claims are entirely countermanded by the evidence of the time. The real reasons for the CUP effort to exterminate the Armenians are well known - and they did not arise from Armenian provocation nor from any Armenian desire to break away from the Ottoman EMpire. While a few revolutionaries may have had this idea (and even acted violently on it) - there was no actual effort of any significance underway to actually enact such a policy from the Armenian population at large - who were loyal Ottoman citizens trying to succeed and perhaps lessen the depridations that had been occuring against them - particularly since the early 1900s with the advent of increasing Kurdish settlements among them and unchecked (even encouraged) predetory behaviors of such.

Even Justin McCarthy has admitted this and has admitted that before WWI the idea of Armenian nationalism was an abject failure. Armenians - particualry of Western Anatolia were Ottoman citizens and expected to be such. Anyway - as Otto has said I've already explained these things many times already. What is important is that the Turkish people are being decieved by the Turkish government - even on the point of Armenian hatred towards Turks. Sure Armenians have great resentment and hurt - who wouldn't - not only due to the Genocide itself - that most Turks who come here seemingly cannot at all comprehend - like why would Armenians be upset - think about it a bit - but because of the current actions on the part of Turkey (including continuing to erase the memory of Armenians in Anatolia and thei enourmous contributions to the Ottoman Empire and to this region prior to the comming of the Ottomans). Just imagine how you might feel if this was being done to the Turks instead of the reverse...

And just because some hotheads here spout garbage and others vent their frustrations (at the shamful and insulting rhetoric of ignorant Turks who come to this forum) and because Turkey tells Turks that everything Armenians are doing and thinking is a plot against Turkey and just an attempted land grab etc - well this does not make it so. Most Armenians do not hate Turks or have any desire for lands etc - but yes we do want recognition for the crimes commited against us and an end to this shameful Turkish campaign of villainization of the victims. And thats right - contrary to Turkish claims it is the Armenians who are the victims and not the other way around. Please do some actual research into this issue before you just parrot the Turkish propaganda claims. And if come here actually seeking some diologue rather then just slinging baseless accusations - then perhaps you will be treated more plesently. Otherwise you can expect no less then how you have been recieved here - and justifyably so.

Thanks for the long history lesson. The problem is I never wrote anything about 1915, ottoman citizen Armenians, extermination, historical documentations, perpetrator CUP, Kurdish settlements, bla bla bla......
You don't read any posts but just parrot the same story which you and us are memorized. Writing short essays about 1915 mat be your hobby but all I said was totally different. I came to this forum and just said how diaspora Armenians are full of Turkish hatred and how they transformed this hatred as a part of their identity. It is my observations from what I read at your forum.
I did not influenced by your so called government propoganda as you parrot countless time. Don't ome and say me that ignorant Turks are coming to this forum and make Armenians upset, so they counterattack. Turks join or not you are always insulting Turks in this forum. Parroting the same insults and lies like "Turks are barbar, all they say is government propoganda, soldiers are ruling Turkey, they have to turn back to central asia, they have no culture, bla bla bla.....
Of course Turks who read these garbages are coming to this forum and answer. Think from our side. A group of people are insulting your people everyday. They have no other jobs but insuting Turks.
%60 of all threads in this forum is about how Turks are like this, like that....
It seems that your national obsession has turned to a pathological case.
Forget about how Turks are bad, etc. Look at yourself, you look so sick.

[thedebutante]

295+14 is not sufficient to be a real nation in the human history.

says who buddy? assuming that you are right with your figures, look at the U.S. Do you not consider the United States a nation? haha, not only is the U.S. a nation, but it can make and break Turkey in a second.

now go add up those dates and stop being ignorant. here, let me give you a starting point. why dont you find out when the U.S. declared independence and then subtract that number from 2005.