Genocide Argument

[Tufan]

"""""""" See I have problem with defining white solely based on skin color and eyes because if we assume then that being "white" is based on physical characteristics then some Turks can be defined "European" and "white", thus, there must be something more then skin color that labels someone "white" and "European" because a Turk can never be labeled "white" and or "European". """""""" Virgil

WOW! I was looking to other discussions at your forum and I found this. This is a good example for why this is a racist forum. You are hopelessly tring to proove that you are white, arian, etc. And stupidly you are trying to state that Turks are from central asia. Hey, I never deny that our origins come from central asia. Because I do not shame from my origin like you. So it is necessary to write that Turks came to Anatolia at 1071. This is a historical fact that everybody knows and I don't have a problem with this. A lot of nation migrated and settled from one place to another. British people came from Germany (Angles, saxons,jutes) invaded the island and settled. Hungarians came from central asia like Turks and settled to Hungary.What is the problem with this? One big millenium have passed and you are still talking about these things.
Friends, lets be constructive instead of hopelessly swearing to Turks. As I said at my first message I am really for the Armenians who died at WW1. At 1915 Armenians have faced with massacres at the deportation. Half of the population died, and this is really a shameful historical fact for Turkish history. I never denied this. Only what I said is that this was not a genocide. Turks and Kurds killed Armenians at 1915. Greeks and Serbs killed Turks after Balkan wars. Frenchs killed Algerians. etc. all shameful events. But none of them was a genocied. Please look to the article of Genocide at dictionaries. The word genocied even created after WW2 to define Jewish holocaust. That si why we deny your claims. Do you know that at the beginning of 20th century millions of Turkish people was living at Balkans. At the Balkan wars and after, most of them massacred and a few remained. All these are shameful but not genocied.

What the main problem between us and you is your way of supporting your historical thesis. You accuse us with GENOCIDE and this is not true. Moreover you support this thesis with swearing, racism and terrorism. Your Armenian terrorist organisation ASALA killed hundreds of people (Turkish diplomats and their families, innocent tourists waiting at airports) only to support your these thesis.
I am not a person influenced by propoganda, I really sorry for all those Armenians but please understand that also countlessTurks died at 1915.
You are all so reactionary that you can not see all these things. And this problem continues. Beside stupid teens I am sure that there are intelligent people in this forum.
Please try to look from our side, too. Maybe then we can find a solution.

[HyeJinx1984]

At 1915 Armenians have faced with massacres at the deportation. Half of the population died, and this is really a shameful historical fact for Turkish history. I never denied this. Only what I said is that this was not a genocide. Turks and Kurds killed Armenians at 1915.

Perhaps you're not clear on the definition of the word "genocide" so here it is straight out of the dictionary: "the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group"

You yourself admit that Armenians were specifically targeted by the Turkish government, and every historical fact shows that Turkey wanted the Armenian population in Turkey and even around it completely whiped out. It IS Genocide, whether you know the definition or not.

Please try to look from our side

Yea, try looking at it from ours. While you're sitting comfortably in Turkey with no fear of cultural annhilation and being very contect with U.S. as an ally, every day there are threats to our very being, with zero support given to us by anyone, meanwhile YOUR people are destroying our history which is now imprisoned in YOUR lands.

[Tufan]

Genocide article from Britannica:

The term was coined by Raphael Lemkin, a Polish-born jurist who served as an adviser to the U.S. Department of War during World War II, to describe the premeditated effort to destroy a population (see Holocaust). In 1946 the UN General Assembly declared genocide a punishable crime. By this declaration, genocide by definition may be committed by an individual, group, or government, against one's own people or another, in peacetime or in wartime. This last point distinguishes genocide from “crimes against humanity,” whose legal definition specifies wartime. Suspects may be tried by a court in the country where the act was committed or by an international court (see International Criminal Court). An example of genocide more recent than the Holocaust is the slaughter of Tutsi people by the Hutu in Rwanda in the 1990s.

[HyeJinx1984]

Wow, that was a waste of a post.. you just decided to post another definition that was the exact same thing as what I said but just longer and using fancier words? You know, you could have tried to defend yourself and your government or something...

[Tufan]

You Turks killed Armenians and Armenians killed Turks at 1915. This can be described as civil war perhaps but not genocide. This is very clear.
Please some of you seach from the net and give the number of Turks massacred by Armenians before and during Russian army invaded Turkey at 1915.

[Tufan]

Turks killed Armenians and Armenians killed Turks at 1915. This can be described as civil war perhaps but not genocide. This is very clear.
Please some of you seach from the net and give the number of Turks massacred by Armenians before and during Russian army invaded Turkey at 1915.

[Fadix2]

Those days fresh meats are rare... I'm happy to find some fresh ones. YUM! YUM! YUM!

But too bad that I have to reinstall my entire system... and my process of preparation took a little longer.

Turfanig, I leave you two options, you stop discussing the issue or you move at another Armenian forum(which the link I will PM you once you accept that option) and you assist to your downfall...

[Anonymouse]

"""""""" See I have problem with defining white solely based on skin color and eyes because if we assume then that being "white" is based on physical characteristics then some Turks can be defined "European" and "white", thus, there must be something more then skin color that labels someone "white" and "European" because a Turk can never be labeled "white" and or "European". """""""" Virgil

WOW! I was looking to other discussions at your forum and I found this. This is a good example for why this is a racist forum. You are hopelessly tring to proove that you are white, arian, etc. And stupidly you are trying to state that Turks are from central asia. Hey, I never deny that our origins come from central asia. Because I do not shame from my origin like you. So it is necessary to write that Turks came to Anatolia at 1071. This is a historical fact that everybody knows and I don't have a problem with this. A lot of nation migrated and settled from one place to another. British people came from Germany (Angles, saxons,jutes) invaded the island and settled. Hungarians came from central asia like Turks and settled to Hungary.What is the problem with this? One big millenium have passed and you are still talking about these things.
Friends, lets be constructive instead of hopelessly swearing to Turks. As I said at my first message I am really for the Armenians who died at WW1. At 1915 Armenians have faced with massacres at the deportation. Half of the population died, and this is really a shameful historical fact for Turkish history. I never denied this. Only what I said is that this was not a genocide. Turks and Kurds killed Armenians at 1915. Greeks and Serbs killed Turks after Balkan wars. Frenchs killed Algerians. etc. all shameful events. But none of them was a genocied. Please look to the article of Genocide at dictionaries. The word genocied even created after WW2 to define Jewish holocaust. That si why we deny your claims. Do you know that at the beginning of 20th century millions of Turkish people was living at Balkans. At the Balkan wars and after, most of them massacred and a few remained. All these are shameful but not genocied.

This is simply false. No one is cursing you because you are Turkish, but I did pick on you because of ignorance, two entirely different things. With that said, let's move to your claim. You claim that because the term "Genocide" was invented after World War I, that it is not viable, yet our world around us is filled with examples of words created after the fact. The very word that you used, "racist", is one of those words. Should we say the same about historical examples of racism, but they weren't really racist since the term did not become officially popular until the 60s? That is horsepucky.

What the main problem between us and you is your way of supporting your historical thesis. You accuse us with GENOCIDE and this is not true. Moreover you support this thesis with swearing, racism and terrorism. Your Armenian terrorist organisation ASALA killed hundreds of people (Turkish diplomats and their families, innocent tourists waiting at airports) only to support your these thesis.

That is untrue.

I am not a person influenced by propoganda, I really sorry for all those Armenians but please understand that also countlessTurks died at 1915.

Of course, Turks died in 1915, they were at war, what do you expect? The difference between them dying in war, knowing what they had gambled themselves into and savage acts of barbarism by a government against innocent minorities of a different religion within your territory is immense. The fact is, we can look throughout all your history, starting with the millet system, and then on and on, Christians, always occupied second status. The events that led to 1915 and the cauldron of nationalism, are not to be viewed in and of themselves, rather, they must be viewed within the entire context of Ottoman history.

You are all so reactionary that you can not see all these things. And this problem continues. Beside stupid teens I am sure that there are intelligent people in this forum.

That is untrue. I can accuse you of the same thing, "you cannot see all these things". Such statements do not do much unfortunately. And yes, there are stupid teens here, just like there are stupid teens everywhere. What is your point?

Please try to look from our side, too. Maybe then we can find a solution.

There is no solution. The solution you would welcome is if we forget what happened and simply move on. That is not so.

[Tufan]

This is simply false. No one is cursing you because you are Turkish, but I did pick on you because of ignorance, two entirely different things. With that said, let's move to your claim. You claim that because the term "Genocide" was invented after World War I, that it is not viable, yet our world around us is filled with examples of words created after the fact. The very word that you used, "racist", is one of those words. Should we say the same about historical examples of racism, but they weren't really racist since the term did not become officially popular until the 60s? That is horsepucky.



That is untrue.



Of course, Turks died in 1915, they were at war, what do you expect? The difference between them dying in war, knowing what they had gambled themselves into and savage acts of barbarism by a government against innocent minorities of a different religion within your territory is immense. The fact is, we can look throughout all your history, starting with the millet system, and then on and on, Christians, always occupied second status. The events that led to 1915 and the cauldron of nationalism, are not to be viewed in and of themselves, rather, they must be viewed within the entire context of Ottoman history.



That is untrue. I can accuse you of the same thing, "you cannot see all these things". Such statements do not do much unfortunately. And yes, there are stupid teens here, just like there are stupid teens everywhere. What is your point?



There is no solution. The solution you would welcome is if we forget what happened and simply move on. That is not so.

1. Unfortunately it is true.
1982-ASALA attacked Ankara Esenboga airport, killed 10 innocent people, injured 72.
1983-ASALA bombed Paris Orly airport Turkish Airways stand. 5 died, 63 injured. (Most of deads are American tourists.
From 1975 to 1991 ASALA killed many innocent people to support your thesis.

2. Turks died but not only in the war but also at Armenian attacks. Please ask your historians.

[nairi]

I'm not surprised you're quoting propaganda Tufan, because if you had some logic, you would see that your arguments don't make sense.