Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

[Siamanto]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

Dude, your head is soooooo far up your rear it's almost laughable. That's the best come back you have? "It was used long before?" So when I provide you indisputable evidence, we go back to your unverifiable claims? What a joke you are!!!! But it was quite predictable that you would stick to door #5.

True it is not verifiable thanks to the efforts of your buddies - actually, I don't know if you were directly involved or not. You perfectly knew it and you know how to hack the Hi4um database where you are a Mod; I knew that your "evidence" would involve Hi4um. How surprising!!!
For the record, I have mirror backups of some of those network54 shutdown forums but, we both know that they can't be used as evidence.

[Sip]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

Siamanto, you always manage to somehow make me smile All these insult fests aside, I still love you

[Siamanto]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

Siamanto, you always manage to somehow make me smile All these insult fests aside, I still love you

If you care to know, you always make me "laugh" - in a sad way - because your lack of perspicacity amazes me. I neither love you nor hate you; actually, I pity you for being so useless and shallow, and have no respect for you for your lack of integrity!
You also make me "laugh" - again in a sad way - when you desperately try to act "cool!"

Good Night!

[TomServo]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

The latter is owned by a jurk from Russia who happens to be a big fan of arabaliozian. Not recommended for everyone.

Baliozian has been on every Armenian forum I've come across.

ArmeniaCafe, ArmenianDiaspora, ArmenianClub, and even some of the primarily Russian-language forums such as Hayastan or ArmKB.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

We're going down, down, down, if that's the only way
2 make this cruel, cruel world hear what we've got to say
Put the right letters together and make a better day
----- Alphabet St., Lovesexy, Prince, 1988

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=36092

(Privately-owned online news magazine edited in Beverly Hills publishes article by Baltimore attorney and journalist inquiring if the ADL will can Foxman, portraying him as pro-Israel, censor and 1st amendment basher with specific incident of him influencing cancellation of authors' discussion of their book providing critical study of Israel lobby, explaining that book attacked by Foxman discussed why Israel lobby was not acting consistent with U.S. national interest, helped push U.S. to Iraq war, and leaning on White House to attack Iran, detailing how Foxman demonized authors as promoting 'sinister thesis' and 'classic conspiratorial' anti-semitism, referring to Foxman's attack on Jimmy Carter labeling him a 'bigot' for his recent book on Palestine, describing his attack on Pope Benjamin ripping him over the wording of the Latin Mass recently approved the Pope for use again by Catholic worshippers, recalling his pushing Mel Gibson around for "Passion of the Christ" and supporting Marc Rich's pardon and pointing to his Watertown beatdown as perhaps his final stand for Israel because he ignores the symbolism of Boston and its surrounding areas in American history - namely the birthplace of the Revolution)

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/08/26/will_watertown_ma_uproar_bring_abe_foxma

(Same article above posted as blog on website focused on providing the public with information and news often not covered by corporate media and allowing the public a forum to express their views on important issues)

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/08/26/armenian_campaign_aided_by_new_forces/

(Keith O'Brien stays the course as the Boston Globe publishes another one of his informative articles on the ADL brouhaha originating from the Watertown beatdown on Abe Foxman; details how Armenian genocide previously an Armenian issue is gaining suppot from other sources - J-ews and politicians of varied backgrounds; claims that burgeoning support of Armenian genocide recognition result of lobbying, recent scholarly work confirming tragedy as such and recent surge of U.S. anti-genocide awareness; quotes Mr. Weasel for statements linking such awareness to publicity of recent genocides and memory of the Holocaust; points to majority support in House for HR 106 and speaker Pelosi's prior support for such bills; quotes CA representative Adam Schiff for strength of Turkey opposition to genocide recognition bills wherein Mr. Schiff explains that Turkey's lobbying efforts in D.C.against measures are unprecedented; identifies Bob Livingston and xxxx Gephardt as paid lobbyists for Turkey's lobbying efforts against bills; discusses how ADL may have recognized Armenian genocide in response to Watertown beatdown, ADL still opposes recognition bills and Turkey's response to ADL recognition of genocide was a rebuttal that the Armenian genocide is not grounded in law or fact and required ADL needed to flip-flop back to the DARK SIDE; provides opinion of professor, author, genocide historian that, except for U.S. and Turkey recognition, Armenians have won on Armenian Genocide issue as it is in the history books and strongly supported by public opinion and the culture; refers to good ol' Henry Morgenthau [god bless that lil' mamser] and his observation that acts against Armenians in 1915 was "a campaign of race extermination"; chronicles birth of Armenian lobby supporting genocide recognition from the silence of survivors and their kin to an awakening in Massachussets in 1965, the birth of AAA, successful lobbying of House Commemorations of the genocide in 1975 and 1984 and a stall in passing Armenian genocide resolutions related to political concerns arising from relations with Soviet regime, the Caucasus and Middle East regions; quotes former ambassador John Evans stating "historical facts are clear" but elite in State Department and both branches of Congress do not want to irritate Turkey for want of preserving their potential role in Middle East and in some D.C. circles mentioning 'genocide' is 'taboo'; confirms that word 'genocide' has been historically difficult for American J-ewish lobby as demonstrated by turmoil caused by ADL's beatdown in Watertown because lobby does not want to damage Israel-Turkey relations; documents that ADL's reversal on its anti-genocide stance is being celebrated by Armenians - quotes that man in Glendale as relating recent events to Armenian activism causing truth to prevail over political forces and pressures and the pillars of denial to crumble one by one - also recognizes that ADL's reversal is met with skepticism concerning whether or not it will have effect on passage of Congressional genocide recognition bills and whehter or not ADL is being sincere as it is suggesting "dispassionate scholarly examination" to resolve Armenian genocide issue rather than support those bills)

http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_6697570?source=most_emailed

(Feel good article published by Southern California newspaper re: child of genocide survivor joining up with Turk through rotary club and both committing to making peace; suggests foregiveness over hatred to heal genocide wounds)

http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_6697571?source=most_emailed

(Same paper publishes article providing detailed biography of Armenian-American discussed in peace-making article above)

http://www.arabisto.com/p_blogEntry.cfm?blogEntryID=767

(Middle East news and commentary website publishes blog by extremely pro-Turkish commenter wherein she discusses current state of affairs re: recent Turkish elections, claims Armenian Genocide hangs heavy on some Turkish heads and stains Turkey, inquiries if either side will come forward and prove their respective side once and for all, inquires if Mrs. Gul would mediate scholars and historians resolve controversy arising from Armenian allegations of genocide, refers to Turkey's previous offer to Armenian for form joint commission to discuss 1915 events, and provokes Armenia claiming that this as good a time as any to come forward to resolve debate over allegations)

http://communities.canada.com/nationalpost/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2007/08/24/colby-cosh-the-big-wikiquestion.aspx

(Canadian newspaper publishes a opinion piece by blogger that generally discusses accuracy of Wikipedia including software tracking IP addresses of contributors and cites an example where Turkish Treasury deleted references to Armenian genocide on one Wikipedia entry)

http://del.icio.us/babajobu/adl

(Someone else out there is tracking internet content on Watertown beatdown and tagging the articles of import)

[Siamanto]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

Some may think that the discussion about Sipfrod is off topic but, it's not: the likes of Sipfrod, Winoman/THOTH/Winston, Imasdun/Fadix...joined forces with jurks such as ThornyRose/Stormig for many years to make sure that the anti-Armanian policies of the ADL - and other J.e.wish organizations that denied the reality of the Armenian Genocide - are fully enforced on Armenian forums and all discussions on the subject are properly monitored and censored.

Some of you may not know how many Armenians have been harassed and ostracized by the above mentioned individuals and how many Armenian forums - where it was allowed to question and discuss the ADL's policies and the J.e.wish responsibility/role in the fact or the denial of the Armenian Genocide - have been shut down.

Today, all those who believed that the ADL is not all mighty and should be confronted, can celebrate a victory - though modest??? - and the shameful and servile lackeys of the ADL that were Sipfrod and others should feel nothing but shame if only they had a minimal sense of morality and integrity.

Must be the same ThornyRose who ran a Network54 group called "Non-Turkish crimes against humanity"?

It's still up, but seems to be inactive: http://www.network54.com/Realm/Non_T...inst_Humanity/

This "morning," while having breakfast, I have browsed some of my old notes and posts and found out that

1. Sipfrod was a moderator on ThornyRose's forum - check the dates and the number of posts (Look for "Seapahn)"
Sipfrod Moderator of "Non-Turkish Crimes Against Humanity Forum" [Invalid data as shown by Sipfrod, see posts below.]
Home Page

2. Winoman/Winston/THOTH was a moderator on another ThornyRose forum:
Winston/Winoman moderator
Home Page

LOL I could not find a forum where the third musketeer - i.e. Imasdun/Fadix - was a moderator. =(



[Considering that some of the data above is invalid, the below conclusion cannot be totally valid. See also posts below.]
In any case, the above suggests that
1. If you check the dates, it seems that the forums existed simultaneously and different "body guards" moderated different forums
2. Sipfrod was active on network54 and, most likely, was involved in the shutdown of the Armenian forums, along with ThornyRose, Imasdun and winoman and J.e.ws - one of them, supposedly, jurkish.


One "last??" piece of information:
ThornyRose was also connected with cilicia.com - now Armeniapedia, what a small world??? - and its owner and there used to be a long article by her on cilicia.com about her visit to some Armenian churches. The article mentions a couple of names that may be of interest; unfortunately, I could not locate the article on the Web, neither a personal copy of it.

Baliozian has been on every Armenian forum I've come across.

ArmeniaCafe, ArmenianDiaspora, ArmenianClub, and even some of the primarily Russian-language forums such as Hayastan or ArmKB.

Yes....You can add some of the now closed ones like Panarmenian.net. I don't remember if he was active on cilicia.com

[Sip]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

Siamanto, is it any wonder no one takes you seriously anymore? I mean what the hell are you talking about? Me involved in shut down of Armenian sites? You REALLY need to get off this whatever medication/chemical you are on.

[Sip]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

1. Sipfrod was a moderator on ThornyRose's forum - check the dates and the number of posts (Look for "Seapahn)"
Sipfrod Moderator of "Non-Turkish Crimes Against Humanity Forum"
Home Page

You worthless Jackass! That page is mirrored from hye forum (i.e. "copy pasted" for lamers like you) ... that is where i have been a moderator for MANY years and very proud of it. You REALLY suck at this whole "Internet" thing

Oh yah now I know exactly what you will say .. "look he hacked the internet to make me look stupid again."

[Siamanto]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

You worthless Jackass! That page is mirrored from hye forum (i.e. "copy pasted" for lamers like you) ... that is where i have been a moderator for MANY years and very proud of it. You REALLY suck at this whole "Internet" thing

OK Fair enough! So I revert back to my yesterday's position when I said that I was not sure about your networ54 activities.
I did not check it carefully and failed to see that it was copied from Hi4um. Obviously, I'm not that familiar with Hi4um and did not check carefully the layout.

In any case, what matters is that it does not change much to your relationship with ThornyRose, Imasdum, winoman etc. and your long track record of joining J.e.w.sh and jurks to make sure that ADL's policies are not questioned on Armenian forums.

Oh yah now I know exactly what you will say .. "look he hacked the internet to make me look stupid again."

Contrary to you, I don't have issues admitting when I'm mistaken; I'm not as fragile as you.
And, yes, as you have, apparently, done in the past, you are capable of hacking in order to provide "evidence." This time, it did not seem necessary.

Siamanto, is it any wonder no one takes you seriously anymore? I mean what the hell are you talking about? Me involved in shut down of Armenian sites? You REALLY need to get off this whatever medication/chemical you are on.

Considering your relationship with ThornyRose, Imasdun, Winoman etc. and your long track record of sabotaging any discussion that questions the ADL policies on Armenian forums, do you expect us to believe that you're not capable?
*repeats* Yesterday, I said that I was not sure of your direct involvement in the shutdown of those forums and, today, I was mislead by that page. So I revert back to my yesterday's position.
You even lack the courage to admit and embrace your actions with pride! Does it reflect a lack of conviction, a lack of integrity or, simply, the fact that the ADL lost the battle?

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

The late night edition:

1. Turkey continues to pressure Israel to do what it takes to keep American Jurkish Lobby aligned with the DARK SIDE;
2. Some educated Israeli and Turks agree, Armenians suffered genocide at hands of Ottoman Turks and Israel and Turkey should recognize it already, sheesh; and,
3. J-ewish activists, blog operators and organizations noticeably absent from Kos convention.

http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/45694

(Non-profit, non-bias, non-political Calfornia based website focused of facilitating truthful media republishes opinion piece inquring if Foxman is going to be kicked to the curb originally published in American Thinker and the People's Voice)

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/08/26/18443425.php

(San Francisco based democractic collective website of bay area independent media makers and outlets republishes same opinion piece re: Foxman's potential demise)

http://www.bianet.org/english/kategori/english/101373/adl-retracted-genocide-recognition

(Turkish website for EU funded project monitoring and covering media freedom and Independent Journalism publishes article explaining that ADL's second statement suggesting "dispassionate scholarly examination" of Armenian allegations of genocide between Armenians and Jurks was the result of Turkey's pressure on Israel and Shimon Peres' intervention; provides commentary of recent developments by Turkish publisher and Israeli college representative - Turkish publisher concludes that Turkey's denial position is futile regardless of state interests or conscience because studies of the tragedy have made the postion for genocide denial more difficult to defend, confirmed that Israel and ADL were being insensitive to genocide deniers, Turkey's denial stance caused research and analysis which makes Turkey's practice of leaning on others using strategic relations more difficult - Israeli concludes that Jurkey and Israel should recognize genocide, confirms that ADL acts independently of Israel and has no authority to act on Israel's behalf, ADL's recent statements have had no impact in Israel, not discussed in Israel b/c the Israeli people really do not know what is happening in U.S., claims denying genocide does not accomplish anything, states the "Armenian gencocide must be recognized."

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=120495

(Turkish newspaper publishes opinion piece explaining the impact of ADL's recent statements, mainly strategic, military relations between U.S., Israel and Turkey, potential peace talks between Israel and Syria; article rehashes ADL's recent actions and recent and pending diplomacy between Israel and Turkey that Turkey claims caused ADL to retract its recent genocide recognition position in lieu of suggesting "dispassionate scholarly examination" between Turkey and Armenians, details Turkish disappointment and Turkey's concerns that genocide recogition offend Holocaust victims and the memory of the Holocaust and that unless ADL's shift is corrected it will interfere with Turkey's relations with both U.S. and Israel, explains that although Turkish government recognizes ADL is independent from Israel, non-governmental and located in the U.S. that Turkish public would not be able to discern difference and confusion would potentially escalate anti-Israel, anti-US sentimnents and further explains that Turkish government would not be able to stop anti-semitism that would flow from genocide recognition and the requirement for the same is a deal breaker for Turkish-Armenian reconciliation, bottom line is that Turkey perceives ADL's acts as "seeds of discord" in Turkish-Israel relations which may have a "poisoning effect".

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1188128150149&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

(Turkish ambassador tells J-post that Turkey expects Israel to keep American J-urkish lobby in line with the DARK SIDE, and prevent U.S. from passing genocide recognition bills, article generally displays Turkey's desparation and expectation that Israel keep American J-urkish lobby in check and steadfastly following genocide denial stance, indentifies Turkey' concern that Foxman's actions will enable Congressional passage of U.S. genocide recognition bills, explains that such resolutions would hurt Turkish sensitivities and is the primary issue for the Turkish people, reprots that ambassador requested follow up meetings with Olmert, Israeli FM Livni and Knesset member after Erdogan-Peres telephone conference to discuss importance of issue, cites Ambassador as explaining Turkish relations not with Israel alone but with all J-ewish people as Turkish people are unable to differentiate between the two, his understanding that American J-ewish lobby works in conjuncton with Israel and his belief that Turkish people expect Israel to keep American J-ewish lobby on point re: genocide denial stance, describes that Tan did not accept recent statements by senior Israeli officials that the American J-ewish lobby are independent organizations because his past experience working with American J-ewish lobby proves that this is an issue upon which Israel has delivered in the past, cites ambassador as stating that ADL's actions intereferes with Turkish-Israel relations, also quotes U.S. congressional member present in Israel as saying that if it went to Congress today, the resolutions would pass, there is heavy lobbying on both sides, and that some things are fuzzy and some people think not dealing with it is best solution for now b/c of consequences, identifies pro-Israeli congressional members as favored to proposed recognition legislation, also cites politician as stating that those condemning genocide and ethnic cleansing and learning from Holocaust must own up to Armenian genocide, that matter is complicated b/c of justice and timing as Turkey is an important strategic player in many matters that require their cooperation, and admitting that he'd been lobbied by American J-ewish lobby who asked that matter be resolved in another arena, reflects politician's surprise over weight placed on resolutions by the parties as the resolutions do not carry the force of law but Ambassador's concern that passage of the resolutions would have emotional impact on Turkish people as it denies the past, attributes evil acts on their ancestors, and those encouraged by it will set up a campaign against Turkey and its people)

http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/103818.html

(J-ewish newssource releases as breaking news the recent and pending diplomacy between Turkey and Israel, detailing Turkey's disappointment and belief that Israel could have done more to prevent ADL's reversal, tone of recent meeting between foreign ministries of both countries signals Turkey's concern re: Congressional recognition of Armenian genocide, providing that, apparently, Conference of Presidents of American xxxish Organizations is discussing Jurkish lobby's stance on Armenian Genocide on a go forward basis and in light of potential consequences to Israel's relationship w/ Jurkey, American interests in Middle East, and Jurkish community in Jurkey, and rehashing ADL's two statements last week - first recognizing Armenian Genocide but opposing U.S. recognition and, then, claiming that matter should be resolved by Armenia and Jurkey)

http://www.thexxxishweek.com/top/editletcontent.php3?artid=6200

(Interesting opinion piece in NY based J-ewish newspaper re: lack of J-ewish activists, organizations and blog operators at this year's Daily Kos convention; perhaps they don't like the immediacy of the medium or their inability to suppress dissenting opinion)