Please Sign This Petition: Özür diliyoruz

[ardakilic]

The op ed piece below is a salient example that many Turks just 'don't get it'.
What this guy fails to understand is that The USA has nothing to do with this apology petition.
This petition was created by Turkish citizens and is aimed at grass-roots Turkish following. Why lash out at the US? Is it tactic to change the subject or obfuscate the issue? Is it fear?

What ever it is, it smacks of desperation and it's not going to work this time.

It is stupid but more than that. Also an insult against Native Americans, by using as a political tool.

Secondly, a tacitly recognition of AG. There is saying in Turkish: "Tencere dibin kara, seninki benden kara" (My pot is darker, yours is more). Logic lean on that.

[imported_crusader1492]

It is stupid but more than that. Also an insult against Native Americans, by using as a political tool.

Secondly, a tacitly recognition of AG. There is saying in Turkish: "Tencere dibin kara, seninki benden kara" (My pot is darker, yours is more). Logic lean on that.

I recognized that. The author (in so many words) admits Turkey's guilt by paralleling Turkish crimes to American crimes.

Can a "PHD" be that dumb?

Anyway, this article stinks of the Turkish government denial machine. It's just same old rehashed nonsense that comes out of Ankara every time the Genocide issue gets too hot.

[Gavur]

In my opinion we need people more than political parties. I don't believe politicians can break ice berg between us. we can break it only thing we need to do something together, know each other, share our lives... we have a long distance between us but big adventures always start with a little step.

My sentiments exactly.Wouldn't be lovely if the whole world stood up for something similtenously!

[Gavur]

Emigrate and live in the diaspora. There you can comment on anything in complete safety and (being free from having the possiblility of doing anything practical) you don't even need to leave the comfort of your armchair. No difficulties; no preparation; no exhaustion - problem solved!

I'm glad I availed you to put your two cents in Bell.

[Edoman]

No, its just a incident of the political war. You have Kurds and some rare Turks that oppose the current government, on the other side you have Turks who would like a lot to stay in power using hatred (as Hitler did) to undermine democracy and freedom of speech, this sort of thing has happened before.

Thanks for that information. My knowledge of Turkish political football is limited.

BTW, happy holidays. I know your are injoying the summer downunder while we are freezing our butts off here in the northern hemisphere.

Sheers Mate

[may]

Hi everyone,

There are a lot to say about this petition: how it affected the Turkish domestic politics, people's perceptions, Armenians' attitudes, its value as an attempt to build bridges between two old neighbors. I can write many paragraphs just about the "apology" part. The subject is very sensitive and what I wrote/think may not be mature enough to be posted but I'll give it a shot.

In a nutshell, both parts of the apology is problematic. On one side I am apologizing to the people that I believe I am at the same side, seeking the justice and humanity values altogether. Apologizing -somewhat- puts me in the same place with the people I despise who committed this crime. On the other side, these is no forgiveness to be granted by Armenians, because not everything in the world is forgivable. Genocide is such an issue. One can just struggle to live with it, knowing that allowing the pain/hatred/revenge to get you will result in another tragedy. "An eye for an eye will make all of us blind" as Gandhi puts it. What we (as two sides of the apology) can do is to rely on/trust each other to heal the wounds to the limit that it can heal (and if it can ever heal). However, as far as I see, the apology passed its literary meaning already. In Armenian's eyes it became a symbol of Turkish people's understanding and empathy. For Turkish side, it became a clear boundary between the people for justice and the "others". So, let be it.

I wrote more than I initially intended. Actually my idea was to paste here few lines from Nazim Hikmet, which I believe puts the perspective that I tried to tell above very neatly. 5 lines from his poem "Evening Walk" (very loosely translated by me)

...
bakkal karabetin ışıkları yanmış
affetmedi bu ermeni vatandaş
kürt dağlarında babasının kesilmesini
fakat seviyor seni çünkü sen de affetmedin
bu karayı sürenleri Türk halkının alnına
...

Grocer Karabet's lights are on
This Armenian citizen did not forgive you
because of slaughtering of his father in the Kurdish mountains
But he loves you, because you also did not forgive
the ones that put that black stain (=shame) on Turkish people's forehead


***********

And few things about what Erdogan said, what Gul did etc.

I still do not understand the paranoia of this petition being "arranged" by Turkish government as a tool to fool the world. Guys, must somebody die to make you believe this petition is not a fake/arranged one? Or if somebody is killed among the organizers, will you say that even killing is arranged to show that it was not arranged by the Turkish government? Please, a bit of trust. Paranoia will get both sides nowhere.

Is it "used" by the Turkish government? Of course, it is used and will be used in different ways depending of the conjuncture. However this does not mean that it was "arranged" by the people who "use" it.

This is politics and these people are politicians. Their job is to use anything for their benefit. Erdogan made very progressive comments about the Kurdish problem before he came to power and portrayed a politician sensitive to brotherhood of people in Anatolia, but did nothing about it and now he criticized the petition. Gul has earlier speeches that you will never believe that these words were said by a democracy fighter. Erdogan, since he is still actively in political arena and there are elections approaching, he has to send messages to the nationalist voters. Gul's term has few years more to end, he has very little to lose while polishing his and Turkey's image. On the Armenian side, there will be people who will claim that this is arranged by the Turkish government to keep their nationalist votes intact. Or another person (not necessarily Armenian) will back this petition because he has some "business" to do if this petition helps a bit more to open the borders.

Probably you heard about the declaration of former Turkish ambassadors stating that this petition does not fit to the Turkish international politics and against Turkey's interests. That may be perfectly true as well!! Because this is their game my friends. A game that we are not in. This petition is an attempt of the Turkish people to reach Armenian people. Free of dirty politics! WE define another game and WE will play with OUR own rules. My dream is to replace the actual rules of their game with our rules when we are many more in numbers. I hate to use quotes but I quoted twice already, one more will not hurt. This time comes from Ben Harper's song: "When people lead, leaders they will have to follow" (I later learned that the expression is an old one but I first heard it in that song)

To summarize: This petition is for good, my friends, don't let the evil use it.

MAY

ps: Although I still believe I was a victim of a racist insult and forum members did not show the strict response that I expected (considering that this forum exists because of racism itself) I thought leaving the forum is against the nature of this forum: never give up until humanity wins. I hope neither Turks or Armenians in this forum experience any kind of racist insults. This will make everything easier for both sides.

[Steph]

Hi everyone,

There are a lot to say about this petition: how it affected the Turkish domestic politics, people's perceptions, Armenians' attitudes, its value as an attempt to build bridges between two old neighbors. I can write many paragraphs just about the "apology" part. The subject is very sensitive and what I wrote/think may not be mature enough to be posted but I'll give it a shot.

In a nutshell, both parts of the apology is problematic. On one side I am apologizing to the people that I believe I am at the same side, seeking the justice and humanity values altogether. Apologizing -somewhat- puts me in the same place with the people I despise who committed this crime. On the other side, these is no forgiveness to be granted by Armenians, because not everything in the world is forgivable. Genocide is such an issue. One can just struggle to live with it, knowing that allowing the pain/hatred/revenge to get you will result in another tragedy. "An eye for an eye will make all of us blind" as Gandhi puts it. What we (as two sides of the apology) can do is to rely on/trust each other to heal the wounds to the limit that it can heal (and if it can ever heal). However, as far as I see, the apology passed its literary meaning already. In Armenian's eyes it became a symbol of Turkish people's understanding and empathy. For Turkish side, it became a clear boundary between the people for justice and the "others". So, let be it.

I wrote more than I initially intended. Actually my idea was to paste here few lines from Nazim Hikmet, which I believe puts the perspective that I tried to tell above very neatly. 5 lines from his poem "Evening Walk" (very loosely translated by me)

...
bakkal karabetin ışıkları yanmış
affetmedi bu ermeni vatandaş
kürt dağlarında babasının kesilmesini
fakat seviyor seni çünkü sen de affetmedin
bu karayı sürenleri Türk halkının alnına
...

Grocer Karabet's lights are on
This Armenian citizen did not forgive you
because of slaughtering of his father in the Kurdish mountains
But he loves you, because you also did not forgive
the ones that put that black stain (=shame) on Turkish people's forehead


***********

And few things about what Erdogan said, what Gul did etc.

I still do not understand the paranoia of this petition being "arranged" by Turkish government as a tool to fool the world. Guys, must somebody die to make you believe this petition is not a fake/arranged one? Or if somebody is killed among the organizers, will you say that even killing is arranged to show that it was not arranged by the Turkish government? Please, a bit of trust. Paranoia will get both sides nowhere.

Is it "used" by the Turkish government? Of course, it is used and will be used in different ways depending of the conjuncture. However this does not mean that it was "arranged" by the people who "use" it.

This is politics and these people are politicians. Their job is to use anything for their benefit. Erdogan made very progressive comments about the Kurdish problem before he came to power and portrayed a politician sensitive to brotherhood of people in Anatolia, but did nothing about it and now he criticized the petition. Gul has earlier speeches that you will never believe that these words were said by a democracy fighter. Erdogan, since he is still actively in political arena and there are elections approaching, he has to send messages to the nationalist voters. Gul's term has few years more to end, he has very little to lose while polishing his and Turkey's image. On the Armenian side, there will be people who will claim that this is arranged by the Turkish government to keep their nationalist votes intact. Or another person (not necessarily Armenian) will back this petition because he has some "business" to do if this petition helps a bit more to open the borders.

Probably you heard about the declaration of former Turkish ambassadors stating that this petition does not fit to the Turkish international politics and against Turkey's interests. That may be perfectly true as well!! Because this is their game my friends. A game that we are not in. This petition is an attempt of the Turkish people to reach Armenian people. Free of dirty politics! WE define another game and WE will play with OUR own rules. My dream is to replace the actual rules of their game with our rules when we are many more in numbers. I hate to use quotes but I quoted twice already, one more will not hurt. This time comes from Ben Harper's song: "When people lead, leaders they will have to follow" (I later learned that the expression is an old one but I first heard it in that song)

To summarize: This petition is for good, my friends, don't let the evil use it.

MAY

ps: Although I still believe I was a victim of a racist insult and forum members did not show the strict response that I expected (considering that this forum exists because of racism itself) I thought leaving the forum is against the nature of this forum: never give up until humanity wins. I hope neither Turks or Armenians in this forum experience any kind of racist insults. This will make everything easier for both sides.

may, a lovely post.

[VaheTheGreat(e)]

ps: Although I still believe I was a victim of a racist insult and forum members did not show the strict response that I expected (considering that this forum exists because of racism itself) I thought leaving the forum is against the nature of this forum: never give up until humanity wins. I hope neither Turks or Armenians in this forum experience any kind of racist insults. This will make everything easier for both sides.

lovely post!
Yah, AND MAY GOD SAVE YOU FROM THESE ARMENIAN RACISTS!!!
P.S. ATATURK IS A FATHER OF THE BROTHERHOOD OF THE NATIONS!!!

[may]

lovely post!
Yah, AND MAY GOD SAVE YOU FROM THESE ARMENIAN RACISTS!!!
P.S. ATATURK IS A FATHER OF THE BROTHERHOOD OF THE NATIONS!!!

God save the world from racists!!!

Ataturk was the subject that YOU used to cover your racist insult, not a subject that I wrote about in any of my posts that you responded. The only connection was the title of the thread (Ataturk statue in Israel) which I had totally forgot while discussing with Saco. I wrote NOTHING about Ataturk in my posts. I could have written good things about him, and that will still would not give you the right to use the human history's oldest racist insult. So, please stop the demagogy.

[VaheTheGreat(e)]

God save the world from racists!!!
I could have written good things about him

Ataturk
[/QUOTE], and that will still would not give you the right to use the human history's oldest racist insult. So, please stop the demagogy.[/QUOTE]

Her we go again.....

I know Kemal loved a lot tulips....