Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

[Eddo211]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

Regarding to Kurds that want combine with the Kurdish state in Iraq, do you think they want to lose the opportunity to live in Istanbul, Ankara or Izmir for the sake of their own independent state?

The most stupid decision ever.

What about millions of Kurdish people in Istanbul? Why should Turkey keep them if a new Kurdish state is formed within the boundaries of Turkey?..............

For somebody who says he is patriotic this is a strange question you ask.............wouldn’t you want to have your own proud state where you can at least practice your language and culture freely without getting waked?

Unless I misunderstood do you consider Northern Iraq Turkish Territory?

[firat]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

For somebody who says he is patriotic this is a strange question you ask.............wouldn’t you want to have your own proud state where you can at least practice your language and culture freely without getting waked?

Unless I misunderstood do you consider Northern Iraq Turkish Territory?

You misunderstood me.

I would like to hear your opinions regarding to practicing language and culture freely. What do you actually mean? After clarifying this, I will demonstrate some statistics regarding to Kurdish citizens' opinions about the same issue.

There was no need to say this but actually my mother's and father's mother tangue is not Turkish though they speak Turkish perfectly as if it is their mother tangue and have their own professions. I already have my own proud state which is Turkey.

[firat]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

Good questions. I don't know if the Kurds in those bigger cities feel like they are fully respected as citizens, perhaps they do.

What about the Armenians in Istanbul? Why did Turkey keep them? There was definitely geo political decisions behind the Armenian Genocide and not just some random I hate you, you hate me... we can't live next to each other.

Well, you know I am not the policy maker in my country.

But I would keep Armenians in Turkey because it is their homeland, because they are the citizen of this country.

Look, it is really to bad for you to ask this question bcoz some of them are my friends. How can you send someone if he/she is your equal. Nothing gives this right to any state.

[Eddo211]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

You misunderstood me.

I would like to hear your opinions regarding to practicing language and culture freely. What do you actually mean? After clarifying this, I will demonstrate some statistics regarding to Kurdish citizens' opinions about the same issue.

There was no need to say this but actually my mother's and father's mother tangue is not Turkish though they speak Turkish perfectly as if it is their mother tangue and have their own professions. I already have my own proud state which is Turkey.

My opinion? The only country which, not only does not recognize any human right to the Kurds, but also forbids them to speak their own language, to sing their songs, to have newspapers, books, schools, culture, is Turkey. For this reason, the Kurdish problem is mostly a problem, for the part of Kurdistan, which is enslaved to Turkey.
The Turkish authorities want to ignore the Kurds, they call them mountainous Turks and they deprive them of any human right. Blood, violence, oppression, have not erased the desire of the Kurdish people to live independent not under this totalitarian enslavement where they are today.

The Turkish military regime has recently intensified the oppression and extermination of Kurds. Thousands of them rot in prisons while others live in caves. It would however be wrong to believe that violence against the Kurds was less intense under the so-called democratic regime of Turkey. Policy is one and the same for any Turkish regime: The policy of extermination of every minority.

So you as a Kurdish decent (?) you are happy being the citizen of a country that has in the last five years leveled some 3500 Kurdish villages as if they never existed? Saddam killing of Kurds is child play compared to what Turkey has done to them.

[firat]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

My opinion? The only country which, not only does not recognize any human right to the Kurds, but also forbids them to speak their own language, to sing their songs, to have newspapers, books, schools, culture, is Turkey. For this reason, the Kurdish problem is mostly a problem, for the part of Kurdistan, which is enslaved to Turkey.
The Turkish authorities want to ignore the Kurds, they call them mountainous Turks and they deprive them of any human right. Blood, violence, oppression, have not erased the desire of the Kurdish people to live independent not under this totalitarian enslavement where they are today.

The Turkish military regime has recently intensified the oppression and extermination of Kurds. Thousands of them rot in prisons while others live in caves. It would however be wrong to believe that violence against the Kurds was less intense under the so-called democratic regime of Turkey. Policy is one and the same for any Turkish regime: The policy of extermination of every minority.

So you as a Kurdish decent (?) you are happy being the citizen of a country that has in the last five years leveled some 3500 Kurdish villages as if they never existed? Saddam killing of Kurds is child play compared to what Turkey has done to them.

I will reply you in detail when I have some free time. Though my suggestion for you is that do not believe every thing I say (I might be missing points) and do not believe everything you read in foreign media (unfortunately, you have no other choice of course), think about land reforms, villagers without lands, extensive amount of smuggling in the region, think about the fact that PKK's control over the drug market in Europe, read about the land owners and see that some of the problems are rooted back to 16th century due to land regime of Ottomans.

Besides, you are missing the greatest point about the issue. It is called Poverty. W/out welfare, nothing can be solved. You are just seeing the issue from a certain point of view and there are points I agree with you. But if you really care about Kurds, read A LOT more on socio-economic structure of the region.

Not just these of course, think about the benefiters from the continuation of the fight between PKK and Turkish soldiers.

[Eddo211]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

.........my suggestion for you is that do not believe every thing I say

I don’t believe everything I say either so I think we are both safe.

..........But if you really care about Kurds....

You got me there.
Even though I am sympathetic towards Kurdish issues especially the deliberate bombings and shelling of the Kurdish villages in Iraq................I will use that against Ultra-Nationalist Turks in a heartbeat if I think necessary.

.........think about the benefiters from the continuation of the fight between PKK and Turkish soldiers.

Correction: PKK leaders collaborating with the Top brass of the Turkish military.

Now that my Kurdish friend is the grease that lubes the wheels.................they both feed each other. For them the worse thing that could happen is for the conflict to end.

[firat]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

Even though I am sympathetic towards Kurdish issues especially the deliberate bombings and shelling of the Kurdish villages in Iraq................I will use that against Ultra-Nationalist Turks in a heartbeat if I think necessary.

Yes, use that against ultra-nationalist Turks as if they are the ones suffering from the fights in SouthEastern Anatolia. They are definetely not, my friend. I don't think they want this fight to come to an end. Their ideology is based on this fight. Without the enemy, they can not exist either.

The very same applies to the ultra-nationalist Armenians. Again, Turks are the reasons of the existence of ultra-nationalists' ideology. Same goes for ulta-nationalist Turks.

I never understand how some people in the world want to see other nation's suffering. Too many Armenians and Turks are examples of this traumatic case. Don't presume that I don't know your explanation to this situation.

I just think that both Armenians and Turks must be liberated from the suffering. You guys and ladies are absolutely right about an issue. Turks have no idea about what your great grant parents passed through. Yet, you are giving Turks some reason to carry out this hate. You want revenge and it is the basic human instict to protect him/herself from getting harmed. Say they turn out to be ultra-nationalist or something else but this is exactly what is happening.

So, what is the solution? I unfortunately do not see any. Someone is going to give up and hatred will go on as it used to before. This thing, whatever we call it comprimise or something else, must be accomplished by mutual understanding. That was the very reason why I defended open borders so that people start to speak rather than being mainpulated by their media knowing that it was not best course of action for Turkish interests.

But again, geopolitics and conflicting interests of the two countries do not let this happen. Do you believe that PM of Turkey changed policy in the last month? Yes, that is for sure. And also I am absolutely sure that President Obama already knew things would turn out like that from the day one when he said Meds Yeghern but not genocide. It is a rare case for Turkey to make politics against US interest, (1974 Cyprus intervention and not letting US soldier pass through Turkish land before Iraq invasion == the only cases for opposite examples)

No body cares Armenian suffering but your own people. The same applies for the suffering of Kurds and Turks as well. It is only us who can solve this problem. Someone like you supports Kurds against Turkish ultra-nationalists and another group of people supports you against Turkish ultra-nationalist. Do you have the feeling that Kurds have gained anything so far?

The answer is they got nothing but suffering together with Turks. Only stupid nations let others to solve their own problems. No major power will help anyone without its own benefit. So far, it was the Turks who gave them more or in other words they got more benefits to support Turks.

[seruven]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

Widow Lady (written by Engin Ardıç - 30.05.2009 - Sabah Newspaper)

I had a xxxish friend back in the island. Yakup (Jacob) asked me one day:
"For how many years does your family live in Istanbul?"
"I can trace it back to 1870," I said, "father of my grandfather was living in Üsküdar, if you accept it as Istanbul... I don’t know about the times before that period. The periods of Abdülhamid and Abdülaziz are OK, but the period of Abdülmecid is dark."
He laughed. "we," he said, "came to Istanbul in 1492!"
He was right. He could certainly prove that his ancestors had lived here for five hundred and seventeen years.
I thought about the people that extend this time period up to three thousand years…
The ones that we sent from here though they lived here since the period of "Megara people"… The Greek I mean… They are more of natives of Istanbul compared to us…
Alas, I would told you the “landmine problem” today..
However, as I started to read the newspaper, the obituary section attracted my attention.
We lost six children in Çukurca, there was no announcement about them there. The villagers do not put up a notice to obituary.
They also do not have brothers from some lodge who have money and will send these children to the “lofty architect of the universe”. The soldiers are only mentioned in the news written by journalists who will write “our hearts are burning” in the morning and who will extinguish their hearts in Papermoon in the evening.
At the same time, I read that Widow Lady Alis has passed away as well. Daughter of Lusin. Grandmother and aunt of Bedros and Leda, Arto and Natali, Berç and Ara, Karakin and Eliz..
Ms. Hasmik passed away, too. Relative of widow lady Arşaluys and sister of Sirarpi..
In parentheses, “from Sivas” was written.
Ms. Hasmik, from Sivas.
I plunged into memories.. I remembered the old “Life Journal”. Not a “mag”, but a “journal”. Those issues, that every two of the lottery winners in ten were Armenian, every three out of ten were Greek.
The days that comedians pretended to be Armenian and Greek on the radio shows. The days that Seyfi Dursunuğlu would not fear from acting the role “Grouchy Virjin”. Those days that he didn’t empty his unique character and parody in order to prevent the possible reactions.
Those days that Henny and Vasilaki took stage in night clubs, those days that Vartan played tango with his whisper. The days, a friend of my father, Kurd Avni hung on to the cashier widow lady in Beyoğlu, in Ekpress Beerhouse, and the days that this act was considered cute and natural.
And a close friend of my mother, Aunt Peruz. Her husband, Uncle Haluk.
We had a house in Beşiktaş. On the right of it, Greeks were living. On the left Armenians. Opposite to it Bulgarians. And next to Bulgarians, Turks were living.
Children of a collapsed giant empire, who fought with each other first, then tried to embrace each other, then again killed each other. However, children who could never become happy…
It was very odd to us. It wasn’t taught, everthing was kept secret. We were saying “How could be Armenians from Sivas, Tokat, Yozgat?”…
As I grew up and learnt, to every children of the empire I see, I started to say that:
“Do not get angry with Turks, because they don’t know…”
Without reason, I lost my taste. I couldn’t write anything today.

Link to Turkish original: http://www.sabah.com.tr/Yazarlar/ard...5/30/dul_bayan

[seruven]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

I liked the above article a lot, and hence wanted to share it with you. Sorry for any possible translation errors (corrections are welcome). I am not capable of doing a comprehensive translation, so just wanted to transmit the essence.

[hipeter924]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

It's well translated. No problems there.