Vive La France !!!!!

[Artashes]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Sorry, kneed to state that last post more fully : It is not only us that needs to distinguish and understand the difference between freedom and licence but every one else as well . Who do you think we should start with? Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

How can we get the rest of the world understand that they are perpetuating lies and how they are perpetuating these lies if we don't understand how they are doing it ourselves ?
We need every every thing we can muster. Understanding itself is important . /Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

If you are playing football and the opposing uses a tactic that allows them to stop your offense then you try to understandthe tactic they are using so you can pepare your offense in advance. When we continually let them use the tactic of substituting licence for freedom and do not educate ourselves and the world that that is what they are doing then they are going to continue to run that play and it's going to continue to get past the world.
Can't remember where I heard this : You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of thetime ( But you ain't foolin me this time.) / Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

If one is standing upon the moral high ground and they listen very closely they can distinguish the difference between the sound one hears when they hear the ring of truth and the sound one hears when they hear someone step into a pile of -----).
Artashes

[Siggie]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Artashes, you need to figure out how to post properly because I am within a millimeter of banning you. This forum is not your personal depository for whatever thought pops into your mind at whatever moment it occurs.
I cannot keep merging your posts made minutes apart. The way you post is very confusing to everyone else making it a chore to engage in dialogue with you and it is creating a lot of work for me to clean up. For someone who talks as much about self-restraint and being respectful to others you are not showing much of either.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Seriously Karo you need to read about the European history of the 19th & early 20th centuries. The European states had the power to dissolve ottoman empire many many years earlier than you think.
The Capitulations were concessions made to European nationals living and trading in ottoman empire. Google them if you want.

The moment they had the real power to dissolve the Ottoman empire, after the Crimean war, then most European states were more busy fighting each other and didn't have time to worry about the Ottoman empire.

The Tsar & the British king at the start of World War One were probably bigger rivals than any other 2 of the European empires. No European empire was allowed by the others to destroy the ottomans for fear of losing strategic position.

This is something that comes from Taner Akçam's book "a shameful act". It seems to only thing that saved the Ottoman empire was World War I

The ottoman empire was propped up by huge financial loans made by Western powers, especially France, these investments would have been lost if ottoman empire was destroyed. That's what I mean by "propped up".

So were many other states, the only reason the US exists today is because of Europe as well, through direct aid and financial aid. If you go back long enough you can see that most states have an other state helping them survive or establish a state, but that doesn't mean that those states are artificial.

Well I can't help how you read my posts. I blame no country other than ottoman/osman/baboon/turc. You think I don't support Armenians? Shame on you. For me Armenia isn't a distant remnant, a never-seen-or-to-be-seen homeland.

I never said you weren't supporting Armenia but that those states weren't supporting Armenians.

I don't want to get it to the argument, but I have to add this:

Hrai is right about Ottoman weakness. The peak of the Ottoman empire was around the 16th century. After that it was a slow and sad decline. By 1831 Greeks fought the Turks, and won their own independence, as did many other minorities. The European powers could have easily taken the Empire apart, but they couldn't divide the pie up in a way that satisfied everyone. After all, in the latter half of the 19th century, Russia took over all of the Armenian territories, and was likely going to annex it to the Russian Empire, preventing the Hamidian massacre as well as the Genocide. However England pressured Russia to return the territories, because they didn't want Russia to become that influential. IN FACT, following WWI, England took it personally upon itself, to punish Turkey, and restore Armenia because as a key figure was quoted saying, if not for us, the massacre of 1895 and the atrocity of 1915 would have never occurred.

Some mistakes here, the Ottoman empire was still at it's height in the 18th century when it still could threaten Vienna and the Holy Alliance. By the beginning of the 19th century we can see a slight decline of power and in the middle of the same century after the Crimean war we can see the true decline of the Ottoman state.
When you look at the wars that Russia fought you can always see that they conquered more than they were planning to annex, for example look at the Russo-Persian wars. They conquered almost all the way to tabriz but were more than happy to annax only the Southern Caucasus. The Russo-Turkish wars were more of a true conquest that was supposed to stay under Russian control for a long time that is why the Russian empire always annexed less than they conquered.
It was also the same British that released the prisoners, I advise you to read "a shameful act" to get a full perspective around the whole trail affair.

[Mher]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Some mistakes here, the Ottoman empire was still at it's height in the 18th century when it still could threaten Vienna and the Holy Alliance. By the beginning of the 19th century we can see a slight decline of power and in the middle of the same century after the Crimean war we can see the true decline of the Ottoman state.
When you look at the wars that Russia fought you can always see that they conquered more than they were planning to annex, for example look at the Russo-Persian wars. They conquered almost all the way to tabriz but were more than happy to annax only the Southern Caucasus. The Russo-Turkish wars were more of a true conquest that was supposed to stay under Russian control for a long time that is why the Russian empire always annexed less than they conquered.
It was also the same British that released the prisoners, I advise you to read "a shameful act" to get a full perspective around the whole trail affair.

I have actually, but it was a few years ago, so I do not remember everything precisely.

[Mher]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/03/opinion/ayoob-clash-muslims-and-west/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

article essentially questions the validity of the Armenian Genocide, and equates the move against the genocidal secular country, as a move against Muslims.

[hrai]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/03/opinio...html?hpt=hp_c3

article essentially questions the validity of the Armenian Genocide, and equates the move against the genocidal secular country, as a move against Muslims.

Mher, turc propaganda from turcophile mr Ahoob.

[Artashes]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/03/opinio...html?hpt=hp_c3

article essentially questions the validity of the Armenian Genocide, and equates the move against the genocidal secular country, as a move against Muslims.

Yes it's all BS . This article can be torn apart and I think as a physical act should be in a timely and swift manner to be both a counter to the diversionary tactic that has just been employed but also to educate the ( (a) the concerned ( b ) the cognizant ( c. ) some of the smarter hominoid.
Just one of the multitudes of insidious reasoning: Quote from article: It's not the accuracyof the opposing claimsthat is at issue : end quote. By saying that he has ( let's not look at the accuracy ) which is to say let's not look at the truth because the accuracy is beyond question or dought amongst all honest ... And hence he is saying (. It is not the truth at issue here ) and hence ....let us not consider either the accuracy or the truth but instead let us concentrate on me ( a muzzlmum) who has his panties all waded up in a bunch. If you can point out to the in a way that they can understand ( let's keep it ample) that a bxtch is being played on them then they won't keep sucking crap up / Artashes