Vive La France !!!!!

[Artashes]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Although I agree the ( J G) precedent should mean the ( A G) should pass the politics are dramatically different. Here any was not threatening or in a position to threaten to withhold vital economic contact and neither was it in a position to deny and neither was it in the financial position then that the fraudulent opponent we are facing is in. Im worried the Fench court will respond to the political rather than the judicial. Very worried. /Atashes

Siggie ,thank you for the help and offer. I'm already experiencing the benefit of your help. My twin sister has just bought me a 3G I pad and it should be here from LA soon. That will also be a big advance from the I phone I'm typing on now. Artashes

[Siggie]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

You can start with the two leaders of the west: England and the US. Both of which refuse to recognize the genocide, and just repeat Turkey's propaganda of "we should not let this affect future relations, we should look to the future, not the past, it is a matter of historical debate"

http://asbarez.com/100552/clinton-ca...door%E2%80%99/

How does that legitimize? It just shows that before holding the current position in office, she was willing to call it what it is... now, she's been leveraged into avoiding that word. It's been the same thing with Obama. I think it's pretty transparent what the issue really is here. Didn't Obama even go so far as to say that he has been open about what happened and that his views on that haven't changed? He's on record and video calling it genocide, then says his views have not changed. That seems clear enough that this is just some weaselly sh!t because Turkey has drawn the line at that word. Is it not just the reality of the situation, that the US needs Turkey's cooperation right now and use of bases there and that is really what it's about?

This is precisely why politics make me sick.
When have politics ever been about truth or doing the right thing? I don't look to politicians for truth anyway. If one wants to know what happened, they look to historians and evidence, not the president of the US or the PM of Britain.

It just all feels like a stupid game they're playing with the feelings of an entire people. And we're playing this game right along with them.

[hrai]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

There we go... the start of the inevitable "we are not satisfied". "Those cowardly J3w-loving French, if they had any guts they would have made it a capital offense to deny the Armenian Genocide, but they won't do that because the whole world is against Armenia".

??????????

There we go.........cat on his hot tin roof with a burnt ass.

The "West" has been weak regards turcey for CENTURIES, purely because of the geographical position it occupies. If the ottoman empire had been broken up mid-19th century or even earlier, as it should have been, perhaps this forum wouldn't exist.

[Mher]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

This is what I don't understand. If the bill, which is not specific to the AG or Holocaust, is deemed unconstitutional, then wouldn't they also have to remove their Holocaust denials laws, since both are based on the same concepts?

[hrai]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Okay, politics tend to make me want to jump off the highest cliff I can find, so forgive my ignorance on the subject, but which Western power has helped to legitimize Turkey's lies?

Note: the reason I loathe politics is because it's often about what's best for ME and not what's the right thing to do.

Siggie, I'm not just talking about turc lies. I'm talking about the artificial turc/ottoman state. Political rivalries helped maintain ottoman empire, helped ataturc to power, helped the continuation of the AG through to 1923 and beyond, denied recognition of the AG.and and and.

Which powers ? Variously.........USA, UK, France, Italy, Austria, Germany, Bolshevik Russia, NATO . Enough?

Your definition of politics is spot on.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Siggie, I'm not just talking about turc lies. I'm talking about the artificial turc/ottoman state. Political rivalries helped maintain ottoman empire, helped ataturc to power, helped the continuation of the AG through to 1923 and beyond, denied recognition of the AG.and and and.

Which powers ? Variously.........USA, UK, France, Italy, Austria, Germany, Bolshevik Russia, NATO . Enough?

Your definition of politics is spot on.

Now tell me how do you know that if the Ottoman Empire was partitioned in the 19th century it would have been positive for the Armenians? Or that Armenians would have gotten a piece of the cake? What is it that makes the Ottoman state artificial? I agree that Turkey deserves to be destroyed but how is it artificial? Statements like that makes Armenian nationalism seem a tool for people who don't use their brain.

Why do you act that any of those countries own you something? The only thing these countries are doing is fighting for their own interests. No country on this planet owns you anything so stop acting like they do, because you make the rest of us look bad!

[Davo88]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

This is what I don't understand. If the bill, which is not specific to the AG or Holocaust, is deemed unconstitutional, then wouldn't they also have to remove their Holocaust denials laws, since both are based on the same concepts?

You are very much right:

Sarkozy: Holocaust issue to accompany Genocide bill at Constitutional Council

February 1, 2012 - 00:28 AMT

PanARMENIAN.Net - French President Nicolas Sarkozy voiced discontent with some Senators’ decision to appeal to the Constitutional Council with a request to reconsider the bill penalizing the Armenian Genocide denial.

“The initiative does me an ill turn,” Sarkozy stated, addressing the parliamentary majority.

The French President further noted that in case of abolishment of the draft law, another appeal will be issued against criminalization of Holocaust denial, according to Le Monde.

Earlier, with 70 signatures instead of the supposed 60, French Senators appealed to the constitutional council.

On January 23 the French Senate passed the bill with 127 votes for and 86 against.

On December 22, 2011, it was adopted by the French National Assembly. The bill will impose a 45,000 euro fine and a year in prison for anyone in France who denies this crime against humanity committed by the Ottoman Empire.

http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/90936/

[Artashes]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Because of my computer ineptitude I'm going to address one piont per (send?) / in response to (would have gotten a piece of the pie) the Armenian people have never been seeking a price of the pie. The Armenian people are saying that birds of people came in and overwhelmed as well as a vast area beyond and that just as they did in all these other counters (doesn't any one else remember?)..we want recognized that land was stolen by murdering the (my family and yours if you are an Armenian as well as a great many other people's . What pie?their is no pie that's my forefathers ancestral home not a pie

Now tell me how do you know that if the Ottoman Empire was partitioned in the 19th century it would have been positive for the Armenians? Or that Armenians would have gotten a piece of the cake? What is it that makes the Ottoman state artificial? I agree that Turkey deserves to be destroyed but how is it artificial? Statements like that makes Armenian nationalism seem a tool for people who don't use their brain.

Why do you act that any of those countries own you something? The only thing these countries are doing is fighting for their own interests. No country on this planet owns you anything so stop acting like they do, because you make the rest of us look bad!

[hrai]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Now tell me how do you know that if the Ottoman Empire was partitioned in the 19th century it would have been positive for the Armenians?

It couldn't have been worse, could it?

Or that Armenians would have gotten a piece of the cake?

Not my point there actually.

What is it that makes the Ottoman state artificial?

The ottoman empire was propped up by rival European powers who were struggling with their own imperialistic ambitions. The Capitulations were perhaps unique in history.

I agree that Turkey deserves to be destroyed but how is it artificial?

Why isn't it?

Statements like that makes Armenian nationalism seem a tool for people who don't use their brain.

turcey being artificial isn't necessarily linked to Armenian nationalism...................other than perhaps by people who don't use their brain.

Why do you act that any of those countries own you something?

How do you ass-ume that I believe those countries owe me anything? I don't. I'm not naive enough to expect anything from any foreign country.

The only thing these countries are doing is fighting for their own interests. No country on this planet owns you anything so stop acting like they do

Where and how do I act as if I think any country owes me anything???

because you make the rest of us look bad!

You really don't need any help there.


I made a deal with Siggie re this thread but can seriously feel a ban/exclusion coming on.

[Artashes]

In response to (who don't use their brains makes us all look bad.) I personally agree with what Hrai said, so the ( makes us all look bad) has no merit. It is only your opinion. When you accuse somebody of being brain less just because you think so you are being insulting and shallow You might try expressing your opions without the insulting and rude comment . Part of the matureing process is to stop acting like a junior twit./Artashes

If anyone one this planet cannot see the complete and total unacceptable genoicide and the denial of same their humanity has deminished.these countries you accuose Hrai of wanting something from owe it to themselves and not just to the Armenian people if humanity is what they desire. Or they can go the way of the simi hominoid and just keep repeating ( it's mine-it's mine - it's mine --- or I didn't do it I didn't do it

I would like to say on behalf of every Armenian that has ever stood up and fought and died for the right to live for his family and country and the right to live on their own ( own ) land
We have unfinished business to take care of./ Artashes