Vive La France !!!!!

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

This is true. The Genocide card is huge for us and we can really pressure them with that. They are scared of Genocide recognition becoming larger. We cannot afford to lose our leverage with the Genocide issue and we need to push it in all major countries and utilise our strong diaspora. Just look at what the xxxish diaspora has been able to accomplish for their interests. And we need to be better aligned with out anti-Turkic nations like Greece, Cyprus, and Serbia.

Am I reading this right? So you want to use the suffering of our ancestors for political gain? Tell me how are you any different than the zionist who do the same thing? This here makes me sick!

[Mos]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Armenia is a Wedge again Pan Turkism, borders will remain closed.

Without Armenian Diaspora putting on the relentless pressure on Ankara you can only imagine where we would be the this AG recognition, they fear us more than Armenia.....to get to Turkey you must first get the West to accept the AG, seems to be the ground rules.

and in the news:

Denial of Genocide to be Criminalized in Entire EU



http://www.bianet.org/english/minori...d-in-entire-eu

This is true. The Genocide card is huge for us and we can really pressure them with that. They are scared of Genocide recognition becoming larger. We cannot afford to lose our leverage with the Genocide issue and we need to push it in all major countries and utilise our strong diaspora. Just look at what the xxxish diaspora has been able to accomplish for their interests. And we need to be better aligned with out anti-Turkic nations like Greece, Cyprus, and Serbia.

[Eddo211]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Armenia is a Wedge again Pan Turkism, borders will remain closed.

Without Armenian Diaspora putting on the relentless pressure on Ankara you can only imagine where we would be the this AG recognition, they fear us more than Armenia.....to get to Turkey you must first get the West to accept the AG, seems to be the ground rules.

and in the news:

Denial of Genocide to be Criminalized in Entire EU

According to the EU states' Joint Framework Decision on the denial of genocide, the denial of the Armenian genocide can be considered a crime in 26 countries. French President Sarkozy wants the decision to be valid in the whole EU.

http://www.bianet.org/english/minorities/135329-denial-of-genocide-to-be-criminalized-in-entire-eu

[Sip]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

And secondly posting idiotic stuff like "THANK GOD FOR DEAD SOLDIERS" and spreading it , you are not just making your self look like an idiot but also the familys and the memory of the soldiers .

Hey hey hey ... it's only Siggie that says things like "Thank God For Dead Soldiers." ... Siggie ... I don't know what abhorent means and what you mean by "abhorrent behavior" but SHAME ON YOU for posting such things.

[UrMistake]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Now Sip and Siggie u must learn the differences between what is right and what is wrong , what is just and what not , you guys will make a terrible judges.

And secondly posting idiotic stuff like "THANK GOD FOR DEAD SOLDIERS" and spreading it , you are not just making your self look like an idiot but also the familys and the memory of the soldiers .

Not only that but you are making it against your whole society ,making them look like idiots giving them enough rage to beat the crap out of you.

[Mos]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

The problem is that while we may agree that the speech being disallowed here is false, harmful, hateful, etc. etc., when we start to limit speech it sets that precedent and this may not be the case with the next things that are censored. Not all unpopular ideas are bad and the future legislators and people in power who create these laws may be more oppressive and less well-intentioned.

Aren't you all against the same exact thing in reverse in Turkey?
How do you feel about Turkey criminalizing saying that what occurred was genocide?

The level of moral reasoning that Sip and I are talking about transcends the content and is about principle and so in that sense is abstract. I think many of you who are disagreeing are looking at the issue only in *this* context.

For instance, this is abhorrent behavior, but it is not illegal and should not be.

France has law regarding denial of Holocaust, they should have one on Armenian Genocide as well.

[Siggie]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

The problem is that while we may agree that the speech being disallowed here is false, harmful, hateful, etc. etc., when we start to limit speech it sets that precedent and this may not be the case with the next things that are censored. Not all unpopular ideas are bad and the future legislators and people in power who create these laws may be more oppressive and less well-intentioned.

Aren't you all against the same exact thing in reverse in Turkey?
How do you feel about Turkey criminalizing saying that what occurred was genocide?

The level of moral reasoning that Sip and I are talking about transcends the content and is about principle and so in that sense is abstract. I think many of you who are disagreeing are looking at the issue only in *this* context.

For instance, this is abhorrent behavior, but it is not illegal and should not be.

[Sip]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

I have to admit there is at least ONE good thing that comes from this French thing ... it makes everyone talk about the Turkish crimes ... and more importantly, not in whether it happened or not but more in can they say it happened or not So in that respect, it's not all bad. But I still, from the matter of principle, don't think it is the right law (or the right approach for that matter).

[Mos]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Yes you are right lets leave Armenia in the state of isolation it is right now. Right now Iran is being put into isolation as well. So pretty soon we will only have Georgia to contact the outside world. So tell how do you propose Armenia to improve its economical situation right now without opening the border?

Do you know how much research is done by companies before they invest even let alone open a branch in a different country? No Turkish company will move into Armenia where Russian companies are calling most of the shots what is happening in the market. The Armenian market is much to small to attract many Turkish investors, but the reverse is more likely to happen. Armenians moving and getting a piece of the Turkish market.

And why would a Turk of Kurd move to Armenia that is as poor as the region that they are moving from? Wouldn't it better for them to move to Western Anatolia, where people speak the same language and where they will be accepted?
This nothing than fearmongering that you are doing right now, you are acting like if the borders are opened Armenia is obliged to allow anyone that wants to enter its territory or even move there or start a business.

I'm afraid of the influx of Turkish influence in our country through economic means. Them using the economic lever to blackmail us and in general I really don't trust Turks at all that they would be responsible with all this. I really don't want us doing business with the Turks are bringing money into their country either. We need to improve our country's atmosphere to attract more Western investments and make Armenia an Information Technology hub.

[hrai]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

So if we aren't gaining anything why are we doing this? We aren't harming our enemies, the State of Turkey will continue the denial. Then tell me what is the point of this? Why is so much resources being wasted on this that could be used to build our nation?

You're really missing the point..........Denial of Genocide is a continuation of Genocide, it is also one of the surest indicators of further genocidal massacres.

You do know that we have more than 500000 Armenians living in Turkey right now, right?

If you have such faith in turcs, why don't you make it 500001 ? also you've again thrown a "fact" of half a million, based on what? Ridiculous statements like this of yours put an end to the discussion.

So again trying fear monger, and play on peoples emotions why the border should not be opened. Without opening 90% of its borders Armenia will never be able to improve its economical situation. But I guess you don't care about that do you?

No fear-mongering here from me, just stating what turcs/baboons have done and will do again given the chance.

What principles are you talking about? Armenia didn't close the border, the border was closed by the enemy and we almost lost the war because of it. You don't get what the closed borders are doing to the Armenian economy do you? It seems its so much easier to point fingers and fear monger then to try to change something for the better.

I'm talking about the stages of genocide and how it must be combatted. The border you want open, go live there, as Mos says the areas over the border are under-resourced, neglected and full of our close friends the kurds. Nice.