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The 100th Anniversary - and Events to Mark it

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  • Re: The 100th Anniversary - and Events to Mark it

    My grandparents come from many parts of our traditional lands . My grandparents somehow managed to get out alive .
    The above is the reason I'm a "diasporan".
    Is the Kurd saying to me they are willing to share my grandparents land with me (now) ?
    Is that provided that a Kurd is not already living on my families land ?
    If a Kurd is living on my families land does that mean I'm welcome to live somewhere roundabout of my families land ?
    Armenians live in Diarbakar before it was named that .
    HARK

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    • Re: The 100th Anniversary - and Events to Mark it

      The Kurdish situation is actually quite complex, and not as simple as we sometimes make it to be. The sympathies/allegiances of the three current active regions (Western Iran being the fourth region) is dramatically different from each other. I'm no expert on the issue, and others should perhaps be able to explain more thoroughly, but this is a basic breakdown:

      Obviously the most anti-Turkish group is the PKK which exists in southeastern Turkey and has in the past sought independence. It's considered a terrorist group by Turkey, and is at a quasi state of war with Turkey. PKK is well known for having strong cooperation with ASALA in the early 1980's. But like Eddo mentioned above, they've become quite tamed since the capture and reconciliation of their leader- which seems to be saying what he needs to say to save his own a--.

      The Kurdistan Democratic Party which runs Iraq is actually relatively pro Turkey, sells oil to Turkey, and has modest relations with Turkey. This is the only group that runs an actual country, that is in all by name independent, and is a stable nation with defined borders.

      The Democratic Union Party which rules Syrian Kurdistan is sort of junior PKK and is also vilified by Turkey. They have strong relations with the PKK. Though the situation there is far less stable and appealing, they are likely to come out of the Syrian War in some sort of independence in the coming years.


      We're far away from Kurdish reparations, but they could start with basic recognition of the Genocide as has been done by many of their exiled groups. But like I said, the only current "country" is Iraqi Kurdistan, which is rather Turkish friendly, meaning even recognition is not close.
      Last edited by Mher; 05-08-2015, 01:59 AM.
      <<եթե զենք էլ չլինի' ես քարերով կկրվեմ>>

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      • Re: The 100th Anniversary - and Events to Mark it

        Originally posted by Haykakan View Post
        HOW SHOULD KURDS ADDRESS ARMENIAN GENOCIDE?

        Rudaw, Kurdish paper
        May 6 2015

        By KANI XULAM yesterday at 03:35

        Most people of conscience feel a frightful crime of unspeakable
        brutality was executed against more than a million Armenians when
        they were horrifically slaughtered by the old Turkish Ottoman Empire
        beginning especially in 1915.

        We weren't around then, of course, but some of our ancestors--it pains
        me to admit--unfortunately embraced the Turkish butchering orders,
        and helped themselves to the bountiful spoils.

        In fairness, some Kurds (I wish there were many) refused to attack
        the helpless Armenians--and other brave souls rescued them (alas,
        not that many) from certain death.

        But because many more did embrace the cold-blooded criminality, it is
        encouraging to see some Kurdish leaders acknowledge our tarnished role.

        "Without hesitation, I recognize the Armenian genocide," declared
        Selahattin Demirtas, co-chair of the Peoples' Democratic Party,
        on April 24, the hundredth anniversary of that hideous holocaust.

        But is that enough?

        Do the Armenians even hear us?

        Many probably don't.

        They want the Turks--the real criminal culprits in the matter--to do
        the apologizing, not the Kurds, who were merely secondary players.

        Like the xxxs of World War II, Armenians feel wronged, and want
        the Turks to step forward and apologize to Armenians the way German
        Chancellor Willie Brandt did to xxxs and Poles for Nazi atrocities.

        In 1970, the German leader visited the Monument to the Ghetto Heroes in
        Warsaw and solemnly sank to his knees in a moving gesture of atonement.

        The inspiring photo showed the world how to apologize for genocide.

        It vividly memorialized: "One picture is worth a thousand words."

        Asked why he did so, Chancellor Brandt answered:

        "Under the weight of recent history, I did what people do when words
        fail them. In this way I commemorated millions of murdered people."

        Armenians are still waiting for a similar act from the stubborn Turks.

        But, sadly, there is no sign of a Turkish version of Willie Brandt
        in Ankara.

        Perhaps Turks don't do remorse.

        Maybe they need help in how to show humility, not just in Eastern
        Europe, where they were defeated by the Russians, but also in Eastern
        Anatolia, where they not only exterminated unarmed Armenian men and
        then gleefully helped themselves to their women, but also told us it
        was our "religious duty--jihad" to do the same.

        Germans, executors of the xxxish Holocaust, have the experience to help
        them, but--if they decline-- I have a man warming up in the bullpen:
        Ben Affleck.

        The Hollywood superstar and Turks are not paired often, but maybe
        they should be, given their recent coverage.

        Mr. Affleck found himself in a pickle, just as Turks have found
        themselves for the past 100 years.

        He had agreed to be interviewed by the producer of "Finding Your
        Roots" with Henry Louis Gates Jr., only to discover that he had a
        slave-owning ancestor on his mother side!

        Mr. Affleck urged the producer to ignore that part of his past,
        which he did.

        Like the Turks, Mr. Affleck tried to rearrange history, but the past
        "is never dead," as William Faulkner shrewdly observed. "It's not
        even past."

        When details leaked out about his ancestor's slave-owning history--and
        the attempt to hide it--Mr. Affleck promptly apologized for the lapse
        in judgment.

        Now that he is fully liberated, he should help the 50 million or so
        folks who call themselves Turks to also sip from the cup of truth.

        The actor could perhaps make a movie about the founder of Turkey,
        Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.

        The Turkish leader did not bloody his own hands in the genocide of
        Armenians, but he didn't mind benefitting from it.

        And when he built a presidential palace in Ankara, he didn't hesitate
        to erect it on the confiscated estate of an Armenian family.

        But what he did to confiscated Armenian lands in places like Elazig,
        Diyarbakir, Mardin, Mus, Bitlis and Van, just to name a few, has a
        Kurdish angle to it.

        He promised to give Kurds living there the Armenian lands--provided
        they helped him defeat the Greeks in his war of independence for the
        "Muslims," which included the Kurds.

        Some Kurds sided with him, and he won his war.

        But he spat on his promise--and his faithful Kurdish allies.

        The Armenians were exterminated, for "inwardly" siding with the
        Christian Russians.

        The Kurds, though Muslims, were now declared "savages" who must be
        "civilized"--meaning Turkified--whether they liked it or not.

        Nine decades later, the Turkish-Kurdish hostility is as fresh as when
        it was reignited by the founder of "Modern" Turkey.

        A documentary covering these issues with Mr. Affleck's voiceover
        might, just might, instill some sanity into the debate of
        who-did-what-to-whom.

        The Kurds would also benefit from it.

        For example, in today's Turkey, 2,900 Armenian settlements have
        Turkish names, but are inhabited primarily by Kurds.

        If Turks decide to adopt decolonization as a policy, the Kurds,
        if honest with themselves, should restore the Armenian names to
        these settlements.

        A free Kurdistan should also pay reparations to Armenia, as Germans
        are paying to the state of Israel.

        That would be an astonishing, highly commendable first!

        Doing something so down-to-earth humane, something so unexpectedly
        civilized, would be so totally opposite to the uncivilized brutality
        heretofore shown by the Islamic State that it would turn the world
        on its ear, and proclaim: "Look what these Kurds are doing!"

        Here would be a Muslim Kurdistan showing lofty charity to a Christian
        nation!

        If Kurds did such an amazing thing, Armenians would surely accept our
        contrition as genuine--and the world would sit up and take notice too!

        - Kani Xulam is a political activist based in Washington D.C. He runs
        the American Kurdish Information Network (AKIN)

        - The views expressed in this article are those of the author and do
        not necessarily reflect the position of Rudaw.

        http://rudaw.net/english/opinion/05052015
        Here is one amongst many wrongly worded sentences ...

        ---- here would be a Muslim Kurdistan showing lofty charity to a Christian nation ----

        Returning anything stolen by murder is *** NOT *** charity .
        When a thief returns stolen property , he is not being charitable , he is returning what did not belong to him to the rightful owners or their heirs .
        HARK

        Comment


        • Re: The 100th Anniversary - and Events to Mark it

          Political Strains Drive Wedge Between Turkey, Russia

          Dorian Jones
          May 08, 2015 2:04 PM

          ISTANBUL—A few months ago, bilateral relations between Turkey and Russia were on the upswing, buoyed by a close bond between their two presidents. Now, there is speculation that a serious rift is developing between the two countries, although powerful economic ties remain a unifying force.

          Fueling the speculation was President Vladimir Putin's backing of Armenia's genocide claims against Turkey, along with Ankara's refusal to attend Moscow's World War II commemorations and intensifying rhetoric by both sides.

          Ankara has been engaged in a diplomatic war of words with Moscow since Putin's comments last month backing Yerevan's claims that Ottoman Turkey committed genocide against its Armenian minority. And Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan joined many Western leaders in staying away from Russian celebrations marking the end of the Second World War.

          “We need no lectures on genocide from a country that, in the past, committed a century of massacres and ethnic cleansing,” the Turkish president declared.

          Semih Idiz, diplomatic columnist for Turkey’s Taraf newspaper and the Al Monitor website, said there has been a remarkable reversal in bilateral relations.

          "Until quite recently they were shown as exemplary relations," he said. "But they seemed to have hit rock bottom at the moment. And the best indication of that is Mr. Erdogan refusing to go to the May victory celebrations in Moscow. This whole impression that somehow Mr. Erdogan and Mr. Putin are bosom buddies — I think that has been shattered at the moment."

          In December, Ankara gave Putin a full state welcome, during which the Russian president described Turkey as a strategic partner. During that visit, Putin canceled a natural gas pipeline running through Bulgaria to Europe and announced plans to build a new pipeline through Turkey called “Turkish Stream.”

          Volkan Ozdemir, an analyst for the Ankara-based Institute for Energy Markets and Policies, said such projects, along with wider trade, will be safe from the rising bilateral tensions.

          "I don't see any relation between these political tensions and natural gas pipeline projects or deals including Turkish Stream," he said. "A Turkish and Russian bilateral relation is based on mutual economy interests, not strategic alliance. Russia is the first partner of Turkish imports and on the other hand, Russia serves as a big market for Turkish goods."

          This week saw the Russian energy giant Gazprom announce a new deal to supply private Turkish companies with gas. Turkish Energy Minister Taner Yildiz and Gazprom chief Alexei Miller signed an agreement Thursday confirming gas deliveries via the Turkish Stream pipeline by December 2016.

          Such developments, observers say, are likely to come as a disappointment to Ankara’s Western allies, who have voiced concern over the pipeline as they work to economically isolate Moscow because of its policy toward Ukraine.

          Ankara has refused to enforce any of its allies' sanctions against Moscow and has been muted in its criticism over Ukraine.

          Soli Ozel, an International relations expert at Istanbul’s Kadir Has University, said Ankara's latest spat with Moscow has exposed the unbalanced nature of the relationship.

          "The Russians have not been at all forthcoming in terms of respecting where Turkey has interests," said Ozel. "So I don't see the Russians being particularly careful about not upsetting, offending or whatever the Turks, whereas the Turks have been usually pretty careful. This is, in my judgment, a relation of unequals."

          Ozel pointed out that Ankara did not even recall its ambassador from Moscow, as it did with Austria, the Vatican and most recently Luxembourg when they backed Armenian genocide claims. But diplomatic columnist Idiz said with Ankara finding itself increasingly isolated, it can ill afford to alienate powerful allies.

          "Ever since the Arab Spring it has started losing friends and allies in the region and in the West," he said. "It has also to do with, a little, Mr. Erdogan’s rather abrasive tone and his pro-Islamic Brotherhood attitude. So, yes, isolation is the order of the day for Turkish foreign politics at the moment."

          A senior Turkish presidential adviser described the country's foreign policy as “precious isolation.” However, observers say that policy appears to have limits when it comes to countries like Russia — something that President Putin appears to be well aware of.

          http://www.voanews.com/content/polit...a/2760193.html
          <<եթե զենք էլ չլինի' ես քարերով կկրվեմ>>

          Comment


          • Re: The 100th Anniversary - and Events to Mark it

            Sweden to set up commission into 1915 deaths

            http://news.videonews.us/sweden-set-...s-0812021.html

            Independent panel to review WWI events in Anatolia, says Sweden’s foreign minister.

            STOCKHOLM – Sweden will establish an independent commission into the 1915 Armenian deaths and “act accordingly” to its results, the country’s foreign ministry has said.

            National news agency Tidningarnas Telegrambyra cited Foreign Minister Margot Wallstrom, who spoke in parliament on Friday, saying that an independent commission of experts, politicians and historians would be established in order to investigate the 1915 events.

            The result of the commission was to be then evaluated in the framework of international law, Wallstrom added.

            Foreign Ministry spokesman Erik Boman added that the Swedish government had put aside the country’s decision from 2010 describing the 1915 killings as “genocide” and would act accordingly to the commission’s results, TT news agency reported.

            Turkey has called for the establishment of a joint commission of historians and the opening of archives to study and uncover what happened between the Ottoman Empire and its Armenian citizens.

            The 1915 events took place during World War I when a portion of the Armenian population living in the Ottoman Empire sided with the invading Russians and revolted.

            The relocation by the Ottomans of Armenians in eastern Anatolia following the revolts resulted in numerous casualties. Turkey does not dispute that there were casualties on both sides, but rejects the definition of “genocide.”
            Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
            Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
            Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

            Comment


            • Re: The 100th Anniversary - and Events to Mark it

              Originally posted by londontsi View Post
              Sweden to set up commission into 1915 deaths

              http://news.videonews.us/sweden-set-...s-0812021.html

              The 1915 events took place during World War I when a portion of the Armenian population living in the Ottoman Empire sided with the invading Russians and revolted.

              The relocation by the Ottomans of Armenians in eastern Anatolia following the revolts resulted in numerous casualties. Turkey does not dispute that there were casualties on both sides, but rejects the definition of “genocide.”
              I can't seem to find any mainstream sources reporting the same thing. This is a minor Turkish website, hence the ridiculous tone and interpretation of the Genocide.
              <<եթե զենք էլ չլինի' ես քարերով կկրվեմ>>

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              • Re: The 100th Anniversary - and Events to Mark it

                Originally posted by londontsi View Post
                Sweden to set up commission into 1915 deaths

                http://news.videonews.us/sweden-set-...s-0812021.html

                Independent panel to review WWI events in Anatolia, says Sweden’s foreign minister.

                STOCKHOLM – Sweden will establish an independent commission into the 1915 Armenian deaths and “act accordingly” to its results, the country’s foreign ministry has said.

                National news agency Tidningarnas Telegrambyra cited Foreign Minister Margot Wallstrom, who spoke in parliament on Friday, saying that an independent commission of experts, politicians and historians would be established in order to investigate the 1915 events.

                The result of the commission was to be then evaluated in the framework of international law, Wallstrom added.

                Foreign Ministry spokesman Erik Boman added that the Swedish government had put aside the country’s decision from 2010 describing the 1915 killings as “genocide” and would act accordingly to the commission’s results, TT news agency reported.

                Turkey has called for the establishment of a joint commission of historians and the opening of archives to study and uncover what happened between the Ottoman Empire and its Armenian citizens.

                The 1915 events took place during World War I when a portion of the Armenian population living in the Ottoman Empire sided with the invading Russians and revolted.

                The relocation by the Ottomans of Armenians in eastern Anatolia following the revolts resulted in numerous casualties. Turkey does not dispute that there were casualties on both sides, but rejects the definition of “genocide.”
                Originally posted by Mher View Post
                I can't seem to find any mainstream sources reporting the same thing. This is a minor Turkish website, hence the ridiculous tone and interpretation of the Genocide.
                ---- rediculous tone & interpretation ----
                The 2nd most studied genocide and probably the longest studied genocide to date , but Sweden needs to examine the data again ?
                The wording of the article is 100% turc perspective , which means nothing more than denialism .
                To minimalize a genocide to "questionable" status is to be a party to that genocide and to offer opportunity for further genocides to occur .
                The article is simply a turc ploy to say ... See , someone else is questioning the overwhelming body of historians evidence and conclusions .
                Gee , I'm so excited to see what Sweden comes up with . Such a puzzler .
                For swedens sake , I hope they figure it out .
                HARK

                Comment


                • Re: The 100th Anniversary - and Events to Mark it

                  Originally posted by Artashes View Post
                  ---- rediculous tone & interpretation ----
                  The 2nd most studied genocide and probably the longest studied genocide to date , but Sweden needs to examine the data again ?
                  The wording of the article is 100% turc perspective , which means nothing more than denialism .
                  To minimalize a genocide to "questionable" status is to be a party to that genocide and to offer opportunity for further genocides to occur .
                  The article is simply a turc ploy to say ... See , someone else is questioning the overwhelming body of historians evidence and conclusions .
                  Gee , I'm so excited to see what Sweden comes up with . Such a puzzler .
                  For swedens sake , I hope they figure it out .
                  Yeah I think it could be Turkish misinformation, and if not, we can be pretty assured Sweden would be going in with decent intentions. Sweden is home to the biggest diasporan community of Assyrians, and because of that the government tends to do the right thing on the issue. Beyond that, Sweden usually has a pretty commendable foreign policy when it comes to morality and human rights.
                  <<եթե զենք էլ չլինի' ես քարերով կկրվեմ>>

                  Comment


                  • Re: The 100th Anniversary - and Events to Mark it

                    To set up a commission?

                    Don't bother.
                    B0zkurt Hunter

                    Comment


                    • Re: The 100th Anniversary - and Events to Mark it

                      Turkey's Erdogan rallies supporters in Germany

                      Karlsruhe (Germany) (AFP) - Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Sunday rallied thousands of supporters in Germany, weeks before his Islamic-rooted party will contest June parliamentary elections.

                      "The ballot box is your weapon," Erdogan told the crowd of over 14,000, who waved Turkish flags and shouted "We love you Erdogan, we are proud of you!" national news agency DPA reported.

                      Outside the congress centre near the western city of Karlsruhe, some of his supporters scuffled with critics, police said, while Kurdish and other opponents waved placards that read "Erdogan, you are anti-democratic".

                      Germany counts three million people of Turkish origin, the largest Turkish overseas expatriate community, making it one of the biggest constituencies after the Turkish cities of Istanbul, Ankara and Izmir.

                      They are mostly former "guest workers" who were invited decades ago to boost the labour force of post-war Germany, or their children and grandchildren.

                      Erdogan, 61, urged the Turkish expatriates to integrate in German society, but also not to forget their language and their religion, telling them: "the stronger our cohesion in the world, the stronger we all are".

                      The audience shouted the slogan "one nation, one flag, one fatherland, one state".

                      Officially, the event was not a campaign speech but a meeting with youths, said the Union of European Turkish Democrats which is close to Erdogan's ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP).

                      The AKP in June 7 parliamentary election hopes to gain a clear majority to be able to change the constitution and switch to a presidential system in which the head of state would enjoy full executive powers.

                      Erdogan -- who ruled Turkey from 2003-2014 as premier, overseeing rapid economic growth -- has already transformed the once largely ceremonial role since taking office in August.

                      Several other Turkish politicians have also visited the German cities of Berlin, Duesseldorf and Dortmund to rally the almost 1.4 million eligible Turkish voters living in Germany, who will be able to cast their ballots all this month in 13 consulates across the country.

                      Hamburg-based Turkey expert Yasar Aydin said canvassing in Germany is now done by all major Turkish political groupings and "is of existential importance for some of the parties".

                      Erdogan has been a frequent critic of Western powers and last month lashed out at the European Union after it and many member states recognised the 1915 massacres of Armenians by Ottoman forces as genocide.

                      Turkey has vehemently rejected the use of the term genocide, contending that hundreds of thousands of Muslims and Christians were killed on both sides in a wartime tragedy.

                      "No-one in the world can ignore you if you vote," Erdogan told the crowd. "That includes those who held a minute's silence in the EU for the Armenians, they can't ignore you either."

                      http://news.yahoo.com/turkeys-erdoga...175659191.html




                      It's hard to believe that this crap is legal. To go to another country, and rile up the decedents of migrants, tell them you have no loyalty to the state you were born in and live in, of which you enjoy the full benefits of, and encourage them to act against that state.

                      If Europe had any dignity or culture left, it would never allow this crap. But of course, in Europe to dare to publicly speak of national or religious pride or dignity is considered a social taboo. That is if you're a Christian European. But if you're a Muslim Turk or Arab, it's a whole other story. It would be nothing short of utter racism for there to be some expectation for you to conform to the cultural norms of the country which you voluntarily choose to reside in.

                      Turkey is a well off country. If these mongols are so loyal to their "motherland" and so appalled by Germany, let them go back to Turkey.
                      Last edited by Mher; 05-10-2015, 11:06 PM.
                      <<եթե զենք էլ չլինի' ես քարերով կկրվեմ>>

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