All things related to Hryastan

[Yedtarts]

Re: All things related to Hryastan

Yet another take on this situation. This one sounds interesting.

GAZA INCIDENT WAS A MANEUVER PLOTTED BY TURKEY AND ISRAEL TO DECEIVE IRAN

PanARMENIAN.Net
June 8, 2010 - 14:06 AMT 09:06 GMT

Russian-Turkish cooperation can be described as merely economic,
according to Turkologist Artak Shakaryan.

"Publications in Turkish media are the evidence of it. All issues
covered refer to economy exclusively," Shakaryan told reporters on
June 8.

As to the recent events in Gaza, he said that these are not linked
to Armenia anyway. "It was a maneuver plotted by Turkey and Israel
to deceive Iran, with a purpose to transfer the center of Islamic
world from Tehran to Ankara," he said.

"After the parliamentary elections in Turkey, relations with Israel
will improve," Shakaryan said, adding that the stronger is Turkey,
the greater will be its pressure on Armenia.

I share the same opinion, I think this “I don’t love you anymore” thing, which was fabricated and theatrically played in front of world media is little hard for me to swallow (too good to be true). Let’s not forget both states were created by Zionists and are still controlled by them. I will believe this comedy drama show only when Israel starts to talk seriously about the AG and work towards officially recognize it.

[Davo88]

Re: All things related to Hryastan

Yedtarts,

According to this logic, the eventual recognition of the AG by Israel and by the US could also be a simple plot or comedy drama in order to settle the issue under conditions favoring Turkey.

[Muhaha]

Re: All things related to Hryastan

Another reason why I tend to appreciate and respect Israel, would the Palestinian & Gazan Goverments allow their citizens to protest their activities? Israel is the only thing in the M.E that even comes close to representing a civilized nation.
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Tel Aviv peace Demonstration 5th june 2010 (flotilla event)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsMjVp9IR-Y

This is a demonstration against the government because of the way the flotilla event was handled, people were angry and came in masses. The organizers estimated there to be over 20,000 people, the media estimated there were 15,000 people. There are many people in israel who want peace and a major change in the way our government handles the palestinian issue.

[Alexandros]

Re: All things related to Hryastan

78 percent of Je_wish Israelis view Turkey as enemy, poll shows

Thursday, June 10, 2010

JERUSALEM — Agence France-Presse

Some 78 percent of Je_wish Israelis now view Turkey, once Israel's only Muslim ally in the Middle East, as an enemy nation, according to a poll published on Thursday.

The sharp switch in public attitude toward Turkey comes in the wake of a May 31 raid by Israeli commandos on an aid flotilla bound for Gaza, which left eight Turkish activists and one Turkish American dead.

The poll, published in the pro-government Yisrael Hayom daily, asked participants: "Do you believe that in light of recent events Turkey has become an enemy state?"

It said 78 percent of those surveyed answered yes, while 22 percent said no.

In the 1990s, the two nations developed close military and economic links and have held frequent joint military drills and signed a free trade agreement. Turkey had also become a favorite holiday destination for Israelis.

But the ties have declined rapidly amid vehement Turkish criticism of the devastating offensive which Israel launched against the Gaza Strip in December 2008 and Ankara's improving ties with Tehran.

And relations virtually broke down following the flotilla raid.

Turkey recalled its ambassador and scrapped joint military drills, saying economic and defense ties with Israel would be reduced to a "minimum level."

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu said this week that normalization of ties with Israel was out of the question if it rejects an international inquiry into the deadly raid on the aid flotilla.

The poll said that only 13 percent of Je_wish Israelis favor an international commission, while 71 percent prefer an internal Israeli inquiry.

The poll by the New Wave Research group surveyed 561 people and had a margin of error of 4 percent. It did not take into account the views of Israel's Arab minority, which makes up about 1.3 million of Israel's 7.4 million citizens.

The poll also indicated that 91 percent of Je_wish Israelis believed Israel should stop future flotillas trying to breach its Gaza blockade. Five percent were opposed and 4 percent had no answer, the poll said.

Israel, together with Egypt, first imposed the closures on the Gaza Strip after the capture of an Israeli soldier by Hamas and other militants in a deadly cross-border raid in June 2006 and tightened the sanctions when the Islamist group seized power in Gaza a year later.

Link

[iversonmania]

Re: All things related to Hryastan

The voices that all this incident is a ploy between israel and turkey is coming from middle eastern armenians and iranian armenians.

Because in lebanon, iran this people cant open their mouth and criticize turkey.. they will be called israeli agents and sentenced to death by muslims.
So this view is the best they can offer to pressure them to let relations go with turkey..
Muslims are serious problem to this world.

[iversonmania]

Re: All things related to Hryastan

What you say is full of crap, because I come from the middle East (Lebanon) and I was living in the Christian side of Beirut which was controlled by very pro Israel militias. When I speak against Israel it’s because I know the true face of it, I’ve seen Israel without its mask that he/she wears in front of the western world, I’ve seen what kind of crimes they’ve done against southern and western Lebanese and against Palestinians.
So go ahead with your idiotic brainwashing and find some idiots who still are willing to believe your lies.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time." Abraham Lincoln,

I am not here to open a thread for lebanon - israel or middle east - israel..

If israel will help our genocide cause with this latest turkey stand, I am more then welcoming it. And I believe israel is an angel if am to compare it to turkey

[KanadaHye]

Re: All things related to Hryastan

The voices that all this incident is a ploy between israel and turkey is coming from middle eastern armenians and iranian armenians.

Because in lebanon, iran this people cant open their mouth and criticize turkey.. they will be called israeli agents and sentenced to death by muslims.
So this view is the best they can offer to pressure them to let relations go with turkey..
Muslims are serious problem to this world.

Why would Iranians criticize Turkey? Aside from the fact that many Iranians don't like their government, they still stand in solidarity with the Palestinians as do many other people who believe in human rights and stand against brutal treatment of people. Realize that militant Islam was created by intelligence agencies in order to be used as their pawn. Every government in the middle east was either propped up by western powers or is a direct reaction to western powers and occupation.

[Haykakan]

Re: All things related to Hryastan

Muhaha the reason you say Isreal is the only thing resembling a civilization in the middle east is because the Arab and Iranian states that tried to progress were brutaly repressed by the USA so that only Isreal would shine in the region. AS for Iversonmania i will simply state that the devile was a angel to, the best looking one at that if you believe the religios tales. Isreal is behind the fanatacism, islamatization and backwardness of the middle east. The zionists have used turned the USA into its slave and use it to keep the Arab nations down so that the Zionist state can shine in the hellhole that it is in and people like you will make the statements you make. It is not really your fault because you and many others have been fed prozionist garbage all your lives and know nothing different. Btw i am not from the middle east-o and Iran is in the middle east to just a fyi.

[ara87]

Re: All things related to Hryastan

The world needs to decide already who they're going to support once and for all, no toeing the line bs. If a nation says they support Israel, then let them support them 150% of the way once and for all, and if they disagree with them at all, then let them support the Palestinians. The world should not have to suffer through so much for the sake of two insignificant groups of peoples on such an insignificant stretch of land.

Personally I side with Israel, b/c while I do believe what they're doing with blockade is wrong on almost every level, I believe that it'll be easier to put and end to the conflict once and for all if Israel wins. Israel holds all the cards, it and the world are ready to work towards a Palestinian state, but first the Palestinians have to accept that the borders are drawn and there's nothing they can do about it. Palestine is from now on and forever will be territories of Gaza and the West Bank. If a Palestinian should desire to live in a region of the entity defined as Israel, the Palestinians are just gonna have to make peace with them and then move to Israel legally.


Who knows, maybe if things cool down and there's a peace between the two, in a few generations an Israeli Arab could be elected to the knesset or something, and while it sounds naive, look at the USA, Michelle Obama is a descendant of slaves, would her ancestors have ever thought that one of their descendants would be first lady and live in a country with second highest amount of interracial marriages?



My plan B is to just give the West Bank to Jordan, and Gaza to Egypt. There are some peoples who will just never be fit to rule themselves, even if they get everything they want. But since Palestinians can't stand to be under the rule of the Israelis, then let them be under the rule of their Muslim Arab brethren

[Alexandros]

Re: All things related to Hryastan


**FILE** House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (The Washington Times)


American Je_wish community ends support of Turkish interests on Hill

By Eli Lake

8:54 p.m., Tuesday, June 8, 2010

In October 2000, the government of Turkey had a problem.

House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert had promised to bring a resolution commemorating the Armenian genocide to the floor for a vote, a move that Ankara said would be a slap in the face to a NATO ally.

The Turks called up Keith Weissman, a senior researcher from the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, and asked him to intervene.

Mr. Weissman said in an interview this week that AIPAC lit up the phones and managed at the last minute — with the help of the State Department — to persuade President Clinton himself to write a letter to Mr. Hastert saying a vote on the resolution would cause strategic damage to U.S. interests.

The last-minute push worked. Mr. Hastert removed the resolution from the floor, and the full Congress has yet to take up the matter to this day.

But the American Je_wish community is no longer helping Turkey, after a tumultuous deterioration of ties between Israel and Turkey in the past four years. The government in Ankara last week decried a botched Israeli raid on a Turkish aid flotilla, which claimed at least nine lives, as an act of "state terror."

In some ways, the Memorial Day flotilla affair marks an end of Israel's more than 20-year strategic alliance with Turkey, and the resulting support from the pro-Israel lobby in Washington.

Turkey, which has a secular constitution, was the first Muslim state to recognize Israel, in 1949. Israel has historically sought to form alliances with countries on the periphery of the Arab world such as Turkey, Iran and Ethiopia.

In 1982, when Israel invaded southern Lebanon, its army destroyed training camps affiliated with the Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia, a terrorist organization responsible for the slayings of Turkish diplomats.

Turkey rewarded Israel's counterterrorism operations with increased intelligence ties. The intelligence relationship soon blossomed into full ambassadorial relations, and increased commercial trade and closer military cooperation. In exchange for arms sales from Israel, Turkey allowed the Israeli air force to use Anatolian airspace for training purposes.

The relationship began to sour in the early 2000s with the election of the Justice and Development Party (AKP in Turkish), which is based on elements of parties that had been banned for Islamism.

Malcolm Hoenlein, the executive vice chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Je_wish Organizations, said, "It's not completely over. There are still close ties between many in Turkey and the community and there are still a lot of common interests."

But Mr. Hoenlein added, "The Turks happen to have a government that is extremist, that has chosen a path that is violative of the past relationship. It has been a steady process, not just related to the most recent incident. This began with the election of this Islamist government in 2002."

Barry Jacobs, the American Je_wish Committee's former director of strategic studies in the office of government and international affairs, also noted Turkey's critical stance toward Israel's 2006 invasion of southern Lebanon to root out Hezbollah terrorists attacking the Je_wish state.

"This started in 2006 when I remember one Israeli diplomat complained that Turkish support for Hezbollah had 'out-Arabed the Arabs,'" Mr. Jacobs said, adding that Turkey's unconditional support for Hamas since 2007, combined with Je_wish discomfort with defending the Turks on the Armenian issue, led to a dampening of support.

"The major Je_wish organizations decided in 2008 that the question of the Armenian genocide resolution was so sensitive we would no longer take public and private positions to oppose it," Mr. Jacobs said.

Abe Foxman, the national director of the Anti-Defamation League, said he thinks the Turks made a strategic decision to break with Israel during the Gaza war. He pointed to a heated exchange in 2009 at the annual World Economic Forum meeting in Davos, Switzerland, when Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan walked out of a session with Israeli President Shimon Peres, telling him: "When it comes to killing, you know well how to kill."

"We saw things deteriorating but it did not surface publicly until Davos," Mr. Foxman said. "Until then, the trade continued, the military continued. It did not happen till the Gaza war. My feeling is that Turkey made a geopolitical decision before, but it needed an excuse to turn so dramatically."

Mr. Jacobs and Mr. Weissman were in some ways the architects of the Je_wish community's support for Turkey in Washington that began at the end of the Cold War. Both men led delegations of Je_wish community leaders to Istanbul and Ankara. Mr. Weissman said AIPAC's leaders even offered training to Turkish Americans on how to establish a successful lobby.

In Congress, the Je_wish organizations lobbied for an oil pipeline from the Azerbaijani capital of Baku to the Turkish Mediterranean port of Ceyhan, a pipeline that bypasses Turkey's rival Armenia entirely. The Je_wish lobby in Washington helped protect U.S. arms sales to Turkey, on which the Greek lobby often tried to block or impose conditions.

Henri Barkey, a former State Department Turkey analyst and senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington, said, "The most important element of the relationship with Israel for the Turks in the late 1980s was improving relations with the United States through the American Je_wish community."

In the 1980s, Turkey often lost major fights in Congress to the Greek and Armenian lobbies.

"It made Turkey's strategic value to the United States more visible and understandable when supporters of Israel would go to bat for them," said Douglas J. Feith, a former undersecretary of defense for policy who represented Turkey when he was out of government in the early 1990s. "All of the sudden, you not only had strong support for Turkey in elements of the executive branch, you also had then some serious debate on [Capitol Hill] in favor of Turkey as well."

Today, far from being an asset for Turkey, the American Je_wish community appears to becoming a potent foe of Turkish interests in Washington.

On Tuesday for example, the Anti-Defamation League issued a press release calling on the State Department to designate the IHH, the Turkish charity that helped organize the free-Gaza flotilla as a foreign terrorist organization. In Turkey, the IHH has been praised as a group of peace activists and humanitarians.

"In terms of the Je_wish community and Israel, neither one of us wants to throw it away and hope it is not over," Mr. Foxman said. "But every day there is another provocation. Every day the Turkish government goes out of its way to be insulting to Israel and another link is broken."

Morris Amitay, a former executive director of AIPAC who has also represented Turkey, was more blunt.

"If someone asked me now if I would try to protect Turkey in Congress, my response would be, 'You've got to be kidding,'" he said.

The liberal Je_wish organizations J Street and Americans for Peace Now declined to comment on the deterioration of Israeli-Turkish ties in Washington.

Link