Atheism and being Armenian

[Siggie]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

You weren't born in an atheist society, you were surrounded by theists. America isn't Mao's China. Your parents I'm assuming weren't atheist either. The laws by which govern you were created by Judeo-Christian principles. Unless you're writing from prison, I'm assuming you follow laws. So if you take all atheists, put them on an island, let them create their own society and governing laws, then their offspring who would have no concept of God(s) would be 100% atheist. An atheist in a majority theist society is still affected by theist ideology.

Umm okay, but you keep saying it would influence them, but how? My parents didn't go to church... how do you imagine being raised by theists (though pretty certain dad's an atheist) would influence me? You can't say something would exert influence and then not really even be able to articulate how it might do that.

Maybe this is easier? How do you think a "100% atheist" would be different than your average christian, other than the obvious religious beliefs?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

How would one be less than 100% atheist? I've never met half an atheist. What "traits" (not sure that's the right word) did you have in mind?

You weren't born in an atheist society, you were surrounded by theists. America isn't Mao's China. Your parents I'm assuming weren't atheist either. The laws by which govern you were created by Judeo-Christian principles. Unless you're writing from prison, I'm assuming you follow laws. So if you take all atheists, put them on an island, let them create their own society and governing laws, then their offspring who would have no concept of God(s) would be 100% atheist. An atheist in a majority theist society is still affected by theist ideology.

[Siggie]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Also, I don't think anyone can be 100% atheist if they've had previous exposure to religion. If your childhood surrounding was theist, you already absorbed some traits attributed to a theist upbringing. Unless, of course, you were raised in isolation. So the Armenian experience is what you make of it as an adult.

How would one be less than 100% atheist? I've never met half an atheist. What "traits" (not sure that's the right word) did you have in mind?

[Jinx]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Reason without faith is just as bad as faith without reason.

Actually I really appreciate that first line, because that was basically what my talk is about. I'm actually not really all that anti-faith. I think we all take things on faith, in sort of the pragmatist kind of way. We don't have any guarantees or absolutes about how the world works, but we have the best ideas (and most useful idea) based on good reasons to have them. Faith is necessary, Reasons are good, Faith without reason is bad.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

So back to the original question....

I suddenly had the urge to come back after a long, long, LONG time. I hope this will be interesting.

I recently gave a presentation on 'Faith and Reason' at a philosophy conference, and afterward I was asked by someone if it is particularly hard for me to be an atheist as an Armenian. It wasn't a question I had thought about much before, as I tend to consider culture and religion two separate categories (though there absolutely can be overlap between the two). Certainly someone can be an Armenian who is also an atheist, such as myself, but my question to you all is if you believe religiosity is something necessary (or at least extremely important) to the Armenian experience? Why or why not?

Reason without faith is just as bad as faith without reason.

You're Armenian by birth, you had no choice in the matter. It was decided for you. Your only choice is how to live your life and whether or not you leave an Armenian legacy behind. Also, I don't think anyone can be 100% atheist if they've had previous exposure to religion. If your childhood surrounding was theist, you already absorbed some traits attributed to a theist upbringing. Unless, of course, you were raised in isolation. So the Armenian experience is what you make of it as an adult.

[Yedtarts]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Stuart Chase

For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible

Irish Saying

I believe in the sun when it's not shining, I believe in love even when I feel it not, I believe in God even when he is silent.

Meister Eckhart

God is at home; it is we who have gone for a walk.

Sigmund Freud

Just as no one can be forced into belief, so no one can be forced into unbelief

Albert Camus

I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.”

[Siggie]

Lack of evidence is all that is needed to prove something didn't happen, that is precisely the point. It doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Who's proving what didn't happen? What wouldn't mean what didn't happen? Your wording couldn't be more confusing. Try again?

On the contrary that is exactly how it works. I would recommend reading the 4th century Armenian Church Father, Saint Yeznik of Kolb �The Refutation of the Sects�. The whole point of two sides discussing whether Zeus exists or doesn�t exist has brought us to a point that Zeus not only doesn�t exist but other mythological gods and creatures don�t exist. That is why I am extremely skeptical about Atheism, because Atheism is about not believing in God, but based on what? Again what is the proof for Atheism? If we assume Atheism is based on personal convictions or events, then it is no different than any other religion.

So your reason for not believing in Zeus is that clergymen said he doesn't?

You don't need proof for not believing in something! Accept the null by default, reject if sufficient evidence to do so.
It is assuming the null. Nothing exists without something persuasive enough to suggest it does. You can't even conceive of enough things not to believe in precisely because you don't believe in things there hasn't been evidence of.

Both Atheists and Theists seek to explain the Universe regardless of having a common set of beliefs. I have listened/read arguments and discussions by Stephan Hawkings, Richard Dawkins, Michael Shermer (he is an agnostic) and Christopher Hitchens from the Atheistic side just to name a few. And I have also listened /read arguments and discussions by C.S. Lewis, John Lennox, Stephan Meyer and Dnesh D�Souza (sorry about the spelling mistakes), from the Theistic side.

Exactly, everyone wants to (think they) understand the world. But the atheism doesn't speak to their understanding of the world. However religion does tell you what you should believe about the world, the origin of things, etc.
I'm familiar with those folks; what's your point in bringing them up though?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

You have no evidence it happened, not evidence it didn't happen. Your thought process is backwards. Lack of evidence for is not evidence for opposite.

Lack of evidence is all that is needed to prove something didn't happen, that is precisely the point. It doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Yeznik]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

That's not how it works. So, you don't believe in Zeus, so you have to provide evidence that he doesn't exist? That's proving a negative. You don't seek evidence for every single thing you don't believe in. Have you "disproven" the existence of pink unicorns?

On the contrary that is exactly how it works. I would recommend reading the 4th century Armenian Church Father, Saint Yeznik of Kolb “The Refutation of the Sects”. The whole point of two sides discussing whether Zeus exists or doesn’t exist has brought us to a point that Zeus not only doesn’t exist but other mythological gods and creatures don’t exist. That is why I am extremely skeptical about Atheism, because Atheism is about not believing in God, but based on what? Again what is the proof for Atheism? If we assume Atheism is based on personal convictions or events, then it is no different than any other religion.

There's no set of beliefs among atheists and it doesn't seek to explain the Universe. Buddhism (original) has a set of principles, but doesn't seek to explain the world either. For that reason I've expressed doubt about whether it should be classified as such either.

Both Atheists and Theists seek to explain the Universe regardless of having a common set of beliefs. I have listened/read arguments and discussions by Stephan Hawkings, Richard Dawkins, Michael Shermer (he is an agnostic) and Christopher Hitchens from the Atheistic side just to name a few. And I have also listened /read arguments and discussions by C.S. Lewis, John Lennox, Stephan Meyer and Dnesh D’Souza (sorry about the spelling mistakes), from the Theistic side.

[Siggie]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

You have no evidence it happened, not evidence it didn't happen. Your thought process is backwards. Lack of evidence for is not evidence for opposite.