Armenian lesbians/gays

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Everyone, please watch this video. I believe it is a way of helping us all come to a better understanding of the forces that we are all subject to. Lila Abu Lughod is an excellent scholar of culture, and has looked at issues of globalism, feminism, family, domestic abuse, and related matters longer and more in-depth than any of us can begin to pretend we have. She speaks mostly about the Muslim Middle East, but since she is discussing culture, there are many things that can be generalized to other cultures in the East, including that of Armenians. She talks about how, the intersection of Globalism, militarism, poverty, and local culture combine to make a very dangerous situation for women.

http://blip.tv/strategic-imperatives...olence-4426174

That's great, and how is talking about these injustices going to solve anything? You say that Armenian culture is too enmeshed but when someone in the family sees an injustice, they stick their nose in and fix it. When I did something wrong, my dad made sure I knew it. You expect people to be liberal (let everyone do what they want) and then get mad when everything goes to hell. I think that's rather insane.

Also, this video is a bunch of B.S. about Afghanistan. Typical J3wish brainwashing.

[ADandelion]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

That's great, and how is talking about these injustices going to solve anything? You say that Armenian culture is too enmeshed but when someone in the family sees an injustice, they stick their nose in and fix it. When I did something wrong, my dad made sure I knew it. You expect people to be liberal (let everyone do what they want) and then get mad when everything goes to hell. I think that's rather insane.

Also, this video is a bunch of B.S. about Afghanistan. Typical J3wish brainwashing.

Did you actually watch the video with the audio on? Because, at least Lila Abu Lughod was pretty critical of Israel, and the other speakers were very critical of the West's intervention into the Middle East in ways that are not at all helpful.

My problem with Armenian culture is the rigid structure of authority that presumes certain people know better than others just by being who they are. This may have been appropriate in the past but it is highly counterproductive now. In my family, for example, there are matters in which I am way better qualified to make judgments and decisions than my father is. But if we were to follow traditional patterns, we would have to defer to his opinion just to preserve the hierarchy. To me that seems counterproductive. Just because he is male and my senior doesn't always mean he is right. My father believes, for example, that I should administer physical punishment when my kids misbehave. I know for a fact that such discipline does not work in the long run, and only teaches kids to resolve their own problems through physical intimidation. In this situation, I know better, and I will let my father know that I don't plan to follow his advice. According to the world view of many, I should put aside my own better judgment and defer to my father's opinion just by virtue of the fact that he is older and male. THAT is BS.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Did you actually watch the video with the audio on? Because, at least Lila Abu Lughod was pretty critical of Israel, and the other speakers were very critical of the West's intervention into the Middle East in ways that are not at all helpful.

Yes, she ended it with "Yes, America's intervention is creating inequalities and causing many of the cases of violence but we'll make a good living trying to help them." Too bad, so sad... c'est la vie. Nice attitude eh?

My problem with Armenian culture is the rigid structure of authority that presumes certain people know better than others just by being who they are. This may have been appropriate in the past but it is highly counterproductive now. In my family, for example, there are matters in which I am way better qualified to make judgments and decisions than my father is. But if we were to follow traditional patterns, we would have to defer to his opinion just to preserve the hierarchy. To me that seems counterproductive. Just because he is male and my senior doesn't always mean he is right. My father believes, for example, that I should administer physical punishment when my kids misbehave. I know for a fact that such discipline does not work in the long run, and only teaches kids to resolve their own problems through physical intimidation. In this situation, I know better, and I will let my father know that I don't plan to follow his advice. According to the world view of many, I should put aside my own better judgment and defer to my father's opinion just by virtue of the fact that he is older and male. THAT is BS.

Generally, the elders are there for wisdom and advice, they'll listen to the problems and the facts then help come up with a solution. Most of the time they know that there is a generation difference and what worked in their days doesn't necessarily apply now. They aren't that rigid.

My sister in law had the same ideals about not laying a hand on her kids. Then one day she just couldn't take any more of the little brat and out of frustration started spanking her right in front of the whole family. Everybody just stood there in silence. Not hard but enough to put a scare into my niece and embarrass her in front of everyone. I'd have to say, it was rather effective.

[yerazhishda]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Truth is falling on deaf ears. The sad part about all of this is that Flamenkita's way of thinking is accepted by North American (read American and Canadian) society as a whole, whether they be male or female...there's no turning back.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Yes, she ended it with "Yes, America's intervention is creating inequalities and causing many of the cases of violence but we'll make a good living trying to help them." Too bad, so sad... c'est la vie. Nice attitude eh?

I guess you didn't catch the fact that she was actually criticizing the Western approach to helping women in the East, and that her tone was outright cynical, and further, that same theme was picked up and elaborated by the two other speakers.

Wow. Are you really so closed off to the possibility of new ideas that you can't even recognize it when someone's opinion actually is to some extent supportive of your viewpoint?

I've had this experience before. I once gave a lecture about an Armenian cultural practice I had researched. During the question and answer period, I was repeatedly accused of saying that Armenians were copying Muslims, when I said very clearly and repeatedly that Armenians were NOT borrowing from Muslim neighbors in this particular case, and that what I was describing was indigenous and predated the arrival of Islam. The whole point of my talk was to show that the practice I was describing was native and peculiar to Armenians, and that it differentiated Armenians from their neighbors. Can people really be so dense and so prejudiced?

This is exactly why people who are scholars, artists, and intellectuals want nothing to do with their communities and compatriots. You say one thing, they hear only what they want to hear. You try to debate, they begin to threaten. What a sick sick group of people my people have become. Being Armenian has nothing to do with learning and growing any more. It has to do with the least common denominator, with appearances, with rigid thinking, and hostile interpersonal styles; with "we're better just because we think we are". All of these are signs of serious decline. And if the world doesn't give a crap about what happens to Armenia and the Armenians, it is because of these kinds of attitudes and behaviors. Nobody gives a crap if Armenia was the first Christian nation. Armenian music sounds no different to the rest of the world than does Indian Bhangra. For the most part, we have nothing special to offer the world any more. What a sad sad state we are in.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Hitting children is only effective in the short term. It teaches nothing. It does not prevent from the same behavior from happening again. Perhaps the behavior will not happen in front of parents, but it will happen in a different context. The child has learned nothing except that mother is capable of hurting and humiliating her.

Anyhow, my favorite part of the video I posted was when the second speaker, the woman who runs family resource centers in Afghanistan says that keeping 50% of the population on their knees is a way for male tribal leaders to impose their will and direct resources toward themselves. This happens because of global phenomena such as war and poverty, where resources become limited and oligarchs believe they have no other choice but to suppress entire segments of society. This is exactly the state of affairs in Armenia right now.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Anyhow, my favorite part of the video I posted was when the second speaker, the woman who runs family resource centers in Afghanistan says that keeping 50% of the population on their knees is a way for male tribal leaders to impose their will and direct resources toward themselves. This happens because of global phenomena such as war and poverty, where resources become limited and oligarchs believe they have no other choice but to suppress entire segments of society. This is exactly the state of affairs in Armenia right now.

I do not know what 'Armenia' you visited, but this is NOT the case in Armenia. Heck, it is not the case in Azerbaijan either. Do not compare a medieval society (Afghani) with an industrialized one (Armenian).

Where you see the tribal leaders suppressing only to direct resources to themselves, they see a right based on birth. Their mindset is totally differen than your Western viewpoint. You really should know better than to mirror image.

[Mos]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

I do not know what 'Armenia' you visited, but this is NOT the case in Armenia. Heck, it is not the case in Azerbaijan either. Do not compare a medieval society (Afghani) with an industrialized one (Armenian).

Where you see the tribal leaders suppressing only to direct resources to themselves, they see a right based on birth. Their mindset is totally differen than your Western viewpoint. You really should know better than to mirror image.

Such people do a better job at creating negative PR for Armenia than Turks/Azeris put together.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Such people do a better job at creating negative PR for Armenia than Turks/Azeris put together.

I don't really care about PR. PR is spin. I'm interested in reality. And the reality in Armenia, as in other parts of the world that are in transition to democracy (hopefully), you get a few men trying to usurp power and resources by eliminating the voice of half the population. And because other, less powerful men see opportunity in supporting the attitudes of oligarchs, you get a situation where women and girls are oppressed and suppressed. It may be different in shape, color, and nuance, but it's basically the same thing. And, in Hillary Clinton's words, we in America are not immune to such phenomena, and so those of us who feel passionately about the future of the species need to be just as demanding as the men (and not all men are like this) who see the advancement of women as tantamount to their own emasculation.