War on Iraq

[surferarmo]

Not national interest. The interest of a select clique.

I have no national interest in having my name smeared by bombing innocent civilians and fattening the pocket books and bank accounts of Halliburton and other oil dynasties.

Actually I believe this war is fought for national interest. We have established that our policy and this war is being provoked by interests in Israel, but these interests are our interests. We live the way we do because of this war. The business and economy in America can only be successful if there is competition. Without competition, the economy will die. This war has created competition, and we can thus live better lives, and Americans will have more jobs, more prosperity and so forth.

As for liberating the Iraqi people, though it was not in the interest of the Americans, it is still an outcome of this war. The people are still liberated from Saddam's regime. I dont think I would care if someone came to bomb Armenia if I was in the marches during the genocide. I would gladly make sacrifice, or lose a limb to not be tortured slowly and watch my family be raped and killed. I would rather die knowing that I had a chance at political freedom, than die crying on my knees in some death march. That was just an example but it can parrallel Iraq very easily.

[Anonymouse]

Not national interest. The interest of a select clique.

I have no national interest in having my name smeared by bombing innocent civilians and fattening the pocket books and bank accounts of Halliburton and other oil dynasties.

Actually I believe this war is fought for national interest. We have established that our policy and this war is being provoked by interests in Israel, but these interests are our interests. We live the way we do because of this war. The business and economy in America can only be successful if there is competition. Without competition, the economy will die. This war has created competition, and we can thus live better lives, and Americans will have more jobs, more prosperity and so forth.

As for liberating the Iraqi people, though it was not in the interest of the Americans, it is still an outcome of this war. The people are still liberated from Saddam's regime. I dont think I would care if someone came to bomb Armenia if I was in the marches during the genocide. I would gladly make sacrifice, or lose a limb to not be tortured slowly and watch my family be raped and killed. I would rather die knowing that I had a chance at political freedom, than die crying on my knees in some death march. That was just an example but it can parrallel Iraq very easily.

Au contraire, Israeli interests are precisely that, Israeli interests, not our interests. The mere fact that we are doing Israel's dirty work doesn't make it our interest.

As for the war and competition, I see no relevance there. This war wasn't a war like World War II where the nation was in a depression and it lifted it by jobs and such, no this war is nothing of that nature. In fact the economy is the worse it has ever been.

The whole "war on terror" scam is so obvious. You read in another post of mine you agreed with the whole war on terror and the missing questions, and yet you support the war.

[Anonymouse]

Yea, not bad for a staged toppling of the statue where the U.S. gathered a bunch of non-Ba'athist anti-Saddam elements. What does that have anything to do with the issues raised? Clearly you have avoided any and all attempts at offering a rational argument for the invasion of Iraq without making logical errors. You have thus instead resorted to desperate one line posts of no substance.

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[jahannam]

Actually I believe this war is fought for national interest. We have established that our policy and this war is being provoked by interests in Israel, but these interests are our interests. We live the way we do because of this war. The business and economy in America can only be successful if there is competition. Without competition, the economy will die. This war has created competition, and we can thus live better lives, and Americans will have more jobs, more prosperity and so forth.

I can't believe you just said that with that nasty pride...
how freakin selfish and sad are you?
I say lets go kill more people in the world so that we have a better economy.. more jobs, more money...
it sux how governments people "vote" for, think and make you think like that!
and you still ask me to register to vote?? lol
it's just disgusting...

[xBaron Dants]

I can't believe you just said that with that nasty pride...
how freakin selfish and sad are you?
I say lets go kill more people in the world so that we have a better economy.. more jobs, more money...
it sux how governments people "vote" for, think and make you think like that!
and you still ask me to register to vote?? lol
it's just disgusting...

took the words right out of my mouth jahannam, and didn't allow me to reply first

But seriously now. Surfer, you honestly make me sick...People like who would declare a war on any country because a single american has been killed, and have no problem whatsoever with irakis being killed, as long as there's enough competition in your country, and as long as it will give a boost to your already astronomical economy, need a seeeeeeerious wake-up call. Get out of your pathetic american mentality that your life is worth more than the lives of 2000 strangers. If you're part of the future generation of american politicians, "noren kake gerank".

no but seriously, UUUUGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!

[Anonymouse]

Your retort is an insult and not an argument. You keep talking about “IQ” like you’re compensating for something.
Listen to this little boy. I seem to know better than you the potential of chemcical and biological weapons, of which you with your massive IQ don't know to be scared of. I am out of patience with you.
Do your idiot ass a favor, go to the library or for a quick read Howstuffoworks.com look up SERIN, VX, and RISIN.
After researching and wiping the crap out of your pants realizing a bottleful of these poisons CAN KILL CITIES, ask yourself if it’s ok for a sociopath who ends speeches with “death to America” to have such weapons. . How easy it would be for one determined individual provided with the right equipment to use them?
Supplied from a regime that has attacked its neighbors TWICE. Used chemical weapons TWICE before, and preaches "death to America" When Iraq attacked Iran and then Kuwait that was for palestine too right? Yeah too bad they were going in the wrong direction.

You said that the toppling of the Iraqi regime served ONLY Israeli interests. And I said then it must be jews that were pulling down those statues and defacing murals. THAT IS TO THE POINT. HOW IS THAT NOT THE PART OF THE ISSUE???
OBVIOUSLY some of the Iraqi people’s interests were being served. The “US gathered a bunch of non-Ba'athist elements ”. People are elements to you? Everything is an academic exercise for you isn’t it? Life is not a game little boy !
You call what you saw on television a “gathering”??? I have both lived under an oppressive regime (and I don’t mean Armenia), and I’ve done some traveling around the world. You can’t appreciate the difference between oppression and the U.S. because you haven’t been at the two extremes. It sounds like you haven’t been anywhere outside your room.

And how do you have access to this kind of information exactly WERE YOU THERE at all these events you talk about? You’re so sure about everything, mr high IQ.
But then again you seem to know the way everything works, and what everyone is thinking, and what their motives are. You should work as a psychic crime solver or fortune teller.

They hand picked the crowds and filmed it, is that what’s going on in your child like mind??? And why did these people feel so strongly, and so violently?? Are they on the CIA payroll??? ARE YOU AN IDIOT?? Do you watch X-files a lot? The truth is out there woooooooouuuuuu!!!!


Sounds like you’ve never had to deal with any of the things you’re talking about, or make tough choices. You have fun with your "elements" moron and try to convince people and that some life is precious and not all. With your "only investment bankers being killed". Grow up. This is the last time I’m going to post. But I’m wasting my time because
YOU ARE INSANE and are not interested in a discussion.

PS – if you called WTC “a pretty antiseptic affair” to me in person I would hit you so hard your unborn grandchildren will feel it. You don’t know, you weren’t here when it happened, you haven’t seen what I’ve seen. Keep your mouth shut.

First of all you rant and rave about knowledge yet you seem to lack the most of it. You join whatever bandwagon the government and the media outlets spew. You call yourself a free thinker?

I've pointed out the logical fallacies of this war for too long. You either can offer a decent rebuttal other than spewing unsubstantiated assertions, or you can take a daring step towards enlightenment and admit that youre reasoning is fallacious.

The U.S. knew the WTC was coming, in fact might have even had its hand in it. Historically, it has not been far for leaders and governments to cause certain things to happen, and to use those as a pretext for either war, or erosion of liberities. The Roman Emperor Nero was conscious of this fact, burned Rome, and blamed it on the Christians. The Roman people naturally had no choice but to accept the propaganda and brainwashing the Roman government put forth, and so went on believing the Christians had done it and it gave them a reason to purge the Christians. Hitler used the same thing when he burned the Reichstag and then blamed it on the Communists. It's all a simple twist of psychology that bull headed boobs like you can never comprehend simply because you have your heads so far up the medias butt that to hear anything dissenting will crack your edifice of thought, and now we can't have that can we? All the alleged weapons you accuse Iraq of having, are because of the U.S. and the U.S. even sided with Iraq against Iran. Don't try to lecture me about history since you probably know the least of it, and most of it is nothing but imperialist jargon, mimicing what you hear on CNN or FOX or your history class.

There have been several doctored photos of the image of toppling Saddams statue, and although right now I cannot find them at my disposal I will post them in future. It is no different than the staged rescue of Jessica Lynch.

The U.S. has provided no evidence of Iraq's biological or chemical weapons or nuclear weapons, if they did they would have presented it to the UN long ago, instead of forged papers, and the UN would have approved of their invasion, and the world as well. I simply cannot believe there is 'evidence' just because Colon Powell and Bush say so. If you do, then you are faithful believer. I, as a rational thinker, in a world where evidence is require to prove a certain, cannot take that leap of faith. And now you sit here and bang your head ont he keyboard and say there is evidence? What evidence do YOU seem to have that the U.S. government didn't have to present to the U.N.? Maybe you should have made yourself useful instead of typing on an internet forum, gone to D.C. and made your case.

As for you hitting me in person I doubt you would try and be successful "little man". But then again that is the only satisfaction a guy like you can get, to try and sound condescending and dominant on a forum. You are such an enlightened thinker. Can I have a copy of your book?

[surferarmo]

Actually I believe this war is fought for national interest. We have established that our policy and this war is being provoked by interests in Israel, but these interests are our interests. We live the way we do because of this war. The business and economy in America can only be successful if there is competition. Without competition, the economy will die. This war has created competition, and we can thus live better lives, and Americans will have more jobs, more prosperity and so forth.

I can't believe you just said that with that nasty pride...
how freakin selfish and sad are you?
I say lets go kill more people in the world so that we have a better economy.. more jobs, more money...
it sux how governments people "vote" for, think and make you think like that!
and you still ask me to register to vote?? lol
it's just disgusting...

Is it how selfish I am, or is it how selfish America is? How selfish you are is what I say? Yes I care about people in this country before any other country. I dont want to see people homeless and dying on the streets...DO YOU? I hope not. I personally think you are as bad as Saddam. To kill an evil dictator for American interests is not bad, for in the process it will serve the Iraqi people interests. How can anyone say that there are no Iraqi people that are happy because this war was brought to their land to free them from such a man? You speak of the Iraqi people as if we lived in a disney movie...News flash...this is the real world. Just because we havent found those weapons of mass destruction does not mean they do not exist. They have been used by Saddam in other places. What makes you think that this is all we went to war for? Maybe we wanted to liberate Iraq from the dictator so that we could compete with them. We will then bring them to capatilism, bring corporations which bring jobs. These people were living in xxxx holes before we went to war, they can only get better from the outcome.

It amuses me how ignorant you people are. I spoke with a friend of mine who is from Iraq. He moved here in December, very close to the time of war declaration. He told me that he is happy we are going to bomb the xxxx out of Saddam. He told me some of his family members would die in the raids, but there was a chance at them dying anyway by the hands of Saddam.

Au contraire, I think you are ignorant and child like, and even worse...selfish. Those people, whether we fought for selfish reasons or not, are now free from Saddam. If you cant see that, then you are trying to hard to put America in evil spot light.

By the way, you live the way you do because of this war. If you dont like it then stop driving your car, stop cooking food with a gas stove, and heating your house with a gas heater, and ride your bike like me. You can speak against your government because of the ideals of America. If you were in Iraq, you would be shot. You have obviously never traveled to other parts of the world.

[xBaron Dants]

worse than Saddam because we find it idiotic to kill innocent irakis for american interests? Your friend from Irak can be happy to be liberated from Saddam, and he has full right to be so. What he doesn't know is that the States don't have the prosperity of Irakis on their mind. By the way, how is Afghanistan going these days? I hear the USA has created wealth and security for the afghan people...............siiigh........

The States will bring the wonders of capitalism to Irak now? While we're at it, let's open another Disney factory in Bagdad too. I hear they've been doing wonders for the other countries in which they're placed...which 14 year old wouldn't be happy to be doing slave work for 11 cents an hour?

And if the States didn't invest their gazillions into the army to start new wars, you wouldn't have the fear of americans dying on the street (which is a groooooss exaggeration). AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, IF OIL IS SO TOUGH TO COME BY, WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE NOT INVESTING IN HYDROELECTRICITY AND ELECTRIC CARS???? Or would you then not need to invade a country? wouldn't that be a shame....

[xBaron Dants]

Yes I care about people in this country before any other country.

While this has nothing to do with the subject, I would reaaaaaally like to know. Is Armenia part of any other country? I would really, REAAAAAALLY like to know...

[surferarmo]

worse than Saddam because we find it idiotic to kill innocent irakis for american interests? Your friend from Irak can be happy to be liberated from Saddam, and he has full right to be so. What he doesn't know is that the States don't have the prosperity of Irakis on their mind. By the way, how is Afghanistan going these days? I hear the USA has created wealth and security for the afghan people...............siiigh........

The States will bring the wonders of capitalism to Irak now? While we're at it, let's open another Disney factory in Bagdad too. I hear they've been doing wonders for the other countries in which they're placed...which 14 year old wouldn't be happy to be doing slave work for 11 cents an hour?

And if the States didn't invest their gazillions into the army to start new wars, you wouldn't have the fear of americans dying on the street (which is a groooooss exaggeration). AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, IF OIL IS SO TOUGH TO COME BY, WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE NOT INVESTING IN HYDROELECTRICITY AND ELECTRIC CARS???? Or would you then not need to invade a country? wouldn't that be a shame....

Baron Dants, do not think the Iraqi people to be ignorant. They know whats up. More innocent Iraqi's people would have died if we let Saddam stay into power. 5000 babies under the age of five die a month under the rule of Saddam; that is 60,000 a year. If you think that that is ok, then your morals are tiwsted. I bring up morals because you use them as the dominant motivation in your arguements. Sure, people died in this war, innocent people, and may God bless their souls, but I would rather see have seen my little brother mistakenly get shot by a Russian trying to free us from the genocide than being thrown into their air for bayonet practice! And that goes for me too. I do not fear death, I have been close to it many times, and I would make these sacrifices myself...believe me.

Also Baron, you make me sick with your self righteous attitude. You always tell me to get out of my "American mentality." I say that you should get out of your Canadian mentality. You believe that we are the blood thirsty country, out for nothing but our interests. I say the same about other countries. If you think that Canada creats policy to "save the world" and because they "care" about other people, then you are horribly mistaken and very ignoarant in stance. I KNOW that you and other countries only criticize America because we have the POWER to do what we want. Canada and other countries dont have it. If they did they would be doing the same stuff, and believe me...they are...just in different ways. Every country has its problems, I want to hear what yours are. I know that Britan has a dental problem . But seriously, you need to stop being self righteous and see that other countries are not going to war to serve THEIR interests as well. We are not in the Disney movie Robin Hood, where you play the heroic Hood, and steal from the rich to give to the poor. Who ever said the rich was bad? Did you know that for THIS gulf war, France, China, and Russia sold the largest amounts of weapons shares to Iraq? I dont think you did. The reason these "noble" countries backed out of the war is because they are customers. They did not back out of the war because are the moral people that you would like to think of them as. They didnt want to kill their customers. Everything comes down to interests.

You speak of the "evil" coroparations. Well, if you thought the "evil" Saddam was any better, you are again morally skewed.