What Do Men Want In A Relationship?

[hyebruin]

Do you know 99,9% of men? How were YOU able to arrive to such a conclusion?

And I'm happy to know that I have not fully developped intellectually yet. God knows that I still have many, many things to learn. Now tell me, at what age does the female temper fully develop?

haha nothing 'scientific' about 99.9% (dang!! i'd be happy just to meet the 0.1% ) maybe you're it? ~~ yeah well for women it's age 18! sorry ----

[xBaron Dants]

haha nothing 'scientific' about 99.9% (dang!! i'd be happy just to meet the 0.1% ) maybe you're it? ~~ yeah well for women it's age 18! sorry ----

Hmmm, nothing scientific, you say? All based on assumptions? Well that doesn't sound very mature either, now does it?

Other than that, my question was about the age where the female's TEMPER, not cortex, fully develops. Nonetheless, that is still very good news, as it means that a lot of the girls I know now will seem even DUMBER 3-4 years from now.

[hyebruin]

Hmmm, nothing scientific, you say? All based on assumptions? Well that doesn't sound very mature either, now does it?

Other than that, my question was about the age where the female's TEMPER, not cortex, fully develops. Nonetheless, that is still very good news, as it means that a lot of the girls I know now will seem even DUMBER 3-4 years from now.

king of sarcasm! what can i say?? it's ok! when i was 17 or 18 i thought i knew EVERYTHING!!---it reallly doesn't bother me what you think of me! it's one of those things you learn to not care about as you get older ---but i'll tell you this much though! the older you get the more you realize that there is still sooooo much you don't know! not just 'you' but i mean all of us!

oh yeah, well i don't know about temper per se, but human personality is pretty much all set by age 10! so you cannot change your CORE after that, but i believe the human spirit is very capable of modifying the personality given enough will power and consciousness of the self.

[anileve]

anileve i do not know what exactly it is you want me to 'reveal'??? but i have very good reason to hold the views i do! and just cuz i am vociferous enough to state my opinion does not mean that other women do not hold the same views!! and i am not just reflecting on my experiences here; i have seen shiiiiit happen to close friends as well as to other girls...needless to say i do not get into my philosophy here on men when i go on a date! i stay my sweet self and only later with THEIR attitude they confirm my stance on their pighood!!--i see what you're saying about us attracting and molding into reality that which we believe; however, there comes a point when you know what is out there and how ugly it can be!!--hey, i'm glad you don't understand where i'm coming from! good for you but don't be so quick to judge!

I am simply trying to understand what calls out that vicious approach of yours. Many women hold your views, I am sad to say, but it is percisely those views that lead them to the highway of "scum-bag" men. Several things have also happened to my male friends who have laid their hearts out for their companions. That leads me to conclude that it is not men, but rather individuals. You create your destiny and you are in charge of it entirely. If you believe in something strongly it will generate itself, I am certain of it. Perhaps if those incidents are continously reoccuring, you should look within yourself and consider that you might be partially responsible. Which is often the case. When misfortunes continuously vear at me from various directions, I stop and shift gears. Usually that solves the problem and it changes the unfortunate course.

And yes I am fortunate to say that I don't know where you are coming from. I had cases where my female friends couldn't remember my name when I was in trouble, and the only once present and helpful were men, and believe it or not they asked for nothing in return and had no mischievious intentions. I also have known my share of unpleasant men, whom I would use as a spitting bucket if I had a chance. And once again, that leads me to believe that one should judge individuals rather than groups.

Did you ever think that perhaps you want men who are not right for you? And when that is confirmed you become angry and disappointed? Try to look at yourself and your actions objectively before you cast your judgment carelessly. It is always easer to place the blame on someone else, it gives us an excuse for our own mistakes.

[xBaron Dants]

king of sarcasm! what can i say?? it's ok! when i was 17 or 18 i thought i knew EVERYTHING!!---it reallly doesn't bother me what you think of me! it's one of those things you learn to not care about as you get older ---but i'll tell you this much though! the older you get the more you realize that there is still sooooo much you don't know! not just 'you' but i mean all of us!

Oh, I would definitely not claim I know everything. The amount of learning I still have to do is still big, very big...too big. However, saying that a person who's 17 or 18 knows NOTHING seems to be the easiest way out of the problem. My argument still stands. People who I've met, and who know more, A LOT MORE than me about many many issues, never use the argument of age, and are able to discuss.

I am also relieved that you are not bothered by what you think I may think of you. The amount of exclamation marks you used had me thinking otherwise.

[Crimson Glow]

Well, this thread keeps getting funnier and funnier......in a sad, continued dilapidation of humanity sort of way....

Ok, now for the views from someone that is older AND more intellectually inclined than most of this forum (yes, for the slow, I'm referring to me). Let's see, where to start.....

Mousy: The idea that high divorce rates are related to women chasing careers may just qualify for one of the top 10 silliest comments I've ever read/heard. I, for one, certainly don't want a woman sitting around, depending on me for a living. In fact, I would be most comfortable with separate bank accounts, even after marriage. But on to why the idea is as ludicrous as the rapper.

The main reason the divorce rate is so high is because people have no clue what they want other than not to feel inadequate. Marriage is a must to be considered an adequate human being, because not getting married and having kids isn't considered "normal" by society. So, under pressure to elude such criticism, people tend to falsely attach their desires for that "perfect one" on to a person merely because they make them feel good, or share a thing or two in common with them. Despite the often rocky relationship, these people tend to get married. Years of deceiving themselves takes its toll on the facade, and the veil eventually drops. People grow tired of playing pretend, and/or they finally realize/accept the truth: This marriage was just a counterfeit relationship forged from insecurities and the need to feel loved. I have yet to meet a couple that is truly in love. They may THINK and BELIEVE they are, but in the true essence of the word, deep down inside, they're not. Those feelings are usually repressed at the initiation of the relationship. No one likes to fess up to the truth when the truth is bad. Then comes the BS of "you've changed!" This is a cop out from the truth of the situation, which is "I never loved you in the first place, but convinced myself I did because I don't want to die alone, or be the laughing stock of my family". There's only so long you can play the charade before one grows tired of it. And then, the divorce. Buh-bye!

Hyebruin: Every complaint, and I mean EVERY complaint you have about men, I also hold about women. I'm 28 now, and women in my age group are no more mature or intelligent than 15 year old girls, so that whole "girls are more mature than guys" argument is a load of shiit! I haven't met many women who don't want to get naked within the first week of going out (as in THEY are the aggressor), and those that do want more out of a relationship only do so for the same, insecure reasons I listed above about marriages. It's easy to loose site of this because you're a female looking at flaws in males. But you have to realize this is not a gender issue, which is why my hatred is planted squarely where it should be: All of man kind.

Also, your comments about Baron Dants knowing less than you, or having seen less of the world then you are erroneous. I doubt you're much older than he is, or have grasped a wider spectrum of knowledge. Enlightenment and exposure to a "reality" outside your own is not dependant on age. I've known people damn near 60 whom I would consider some of stupidest people I've ever encountered. On the same token, I've talked to high schoolers who have held pretty proficient, edifying conversations. Gathering "wisdom" within "the matrix" means nothing. It's breaking free from the system all together that affords you the luxury of understanding people, and the way they work.

Anileve: As to why guys aren't responding to the thread, I really don't have an answer to that. I have this thing going on called an actual life, so the amount of time I have to visit/post on forums is limited, and the ones for my cars get priority. To answer the topic at hand, I don't think what men and women want are all that different. The problem is, society steps in and puts pressure on each gender to act in ways that differ from their own desires. It's not "cool" for guys to be sensitive, or to want a relationship. With phrases designed to demean a guy for wanting to keep his gf/wife happy, like "pu$$y whipped", or "ball and chain", guys are reluctant to accommodate their actual wants, and instead, accept society's gender ideals. Once again, this is all part of the "system", or matrix.

I'd make up a list of requirements of my own, but that would take up several pages. Some say I'm a bit stuck up due to this, but the truth is, everyone else has just lowered their standards.........SEVERLY! And if this is going to be "it", why wouldn't you make sure it is exactly what you want instead of "eehhh, good enough"?! That "good enough" attitude is, again, why the divorce rate is so high. If it never happens, if I never find anyone that fits the bill, so be it. I'm already counting on it, so no big deal. But I will NOT go along with the sheep and their “oh god! I must be what society wants to see” mentality! "Good enough" is NOT good enough for me, nor should it be for anyone else!

[hyebruin]

just when i thought i'd seen the last of forum pseudoshrinks..here's another one! --look, crimson i don't know what kind of girls you've been hanging around with but i'll tell you this much: as bad and as naaaaaaaasty as some women can get, there's still more guys that are total assssses out there compared to women; you don't have to believe me or take my word for it; it won't change my life; but that's how i feel---and as far as you ASSUMING how much older i am than baron, well that's just it, merely YOUR assumption i'm not here to 'enlighten' anyone; i DO consider him rather immature cuz of his distasteful and irrelevant response to my post; i wasn't referring to him in my post but if he chooses to interpret it that way that's HIS problem and i can better spend my time than to address his ignorance! replying with a 'you must be a lesbian' to that post is reeeeeeeaaal mature! yaaaa!! ---and if you again read carefully instead of making assumptions you'd see that i never claimed to know more than anyone! on the contrary i was saying how one realizes his/her ignorance with age and cannot be so sure of anything...how is THAT saying that i claim to know more than him? it's the exact opposite of what i stated!!

[Anonymouse]

Mousy: The idea that high divorce rates are related to women chasing careers may just qualify for one of the top 10 silliest comments I've ever read/heard. I, for one, certainly don't want a woman sitting around, depending on me for a living. In fact, I would be most comfortable with separate bank accounts, even after marriage. But on to why the idea is as ludicrous as the rapper.

The main reason the divorce rate is so high is because people have no clue what they want other than not to feel inadequate. Marriage is a must to be considered an adequate human being, because not getting married and having kids isn't considered "normal" by society. So, under pressure to elude such criticism, people tend to falsely attach their desires for that "perfect one" on to a person merely because they make them feel good, or share a thing or two in common with them. Despite the often rocky relationship, these people tend to get married. Years of deceiving themselves takes its toll on the facade, and the veil eventually drops. People grow tired of playing pretend, and/or they finally realize/accept the truth: This marriage was just a counterfeit relationship forged from insecurities and the need to feel loved. I have yet to meet a couple that is truly in love. They may THINK and BELIEVE they are, but in the true essence of the word, deep down inside, they're not. Those feelings are usually repressed at the initiation of the relationship. No one likes to fess up to the truth when the truth is bad. Then comes the BS of "you've changed!" This is a cop out from the truth of the situation, which is "I never loved you in the first place, but convinced myself I did because I don't want to die alone, or be the laughing stock of my family". There's only so long you can play the charade before one grows tired of it. And then, the divorce. Buh-bye!

This is the most brilliant example of you displaying psychic powers, but I must respectfully disagree. You chastise the idea that the divorce rate is related to women's changing roles ( i.e. career oriented ), yet your explanation is even sillier for it doesn't even offer an answer that can be applied to society on a macro level, for why would people have no clue about what they want? Could it be because the sexual differences are so blurred that people do not know what they want? Surely the fact that 60 to 70% of marriages ending in divorce cannot be attributed to the very ambiguous and pliable reason you put forth. The only logical exaplanation of why the divorce rate is soaring is due to the unhealthy imbalance of the sexes and the changing relationship between them, which has caused this rift. It has been the result of the deconstruction of the family, and the roles historically ascribed to men and women ( I can here everyone saying "Oh no the destruction of the family wah wah, Anon youre so old fashioned, times are changing get with the program" ). No independent career woman will become a dove girl at home, it just doesn't work. The amount of time that a career woman dedicates to making money like a man, putting food on the table like a man, and enjoying the promiscuity and power of a man, she doesn't need to focus on a family or children. Hence more and more men are become the "wives" so to speak, in an androgynous culture, where men are afraid to marry or deal with divorce, since they know it is inevitable, and they know they are not the dominant one in the family. Hence men don't want committment on a large scale these days. That response is directly related to the change in the roles.

Let's see, in Origin of the Family, Frederick Engels wrote: "The first class opposition that appears in history coincides with the development of the antagonism between man and woman in monogamous marriage, and the first class oppression coincides with that of the female sex by the male."

But you see, why should there be antagonism between men and women, since they are naturally unequal and different? That is the natural difference between them, but this passage, and others like it, were used by Communists to convince impressionable women that they would be better off leaving their families and taking up the hammer and the sickle, which so many of them did, likewise the same can be said of this society, since it's better for a woman to model her life after Oprah, than to dedicate herself to her family. It's all the same. In fact, the situation here in America is so bad that you have silly websites like www.nomarriage.com rearing their heads.

So then patriarchy was an evil institution that had to go, and became an oft repeated epithet that soon evolved into a circular argument. Patriarchy was bad because it caused the oppression of women. And women's oppression was self-evident because of the existence of patriarchy. But hey there is nothing wrong with the independent/dominant career woman type you so desire, since there's plenty of them in the States. It's just I have trouble adjusting to that idea of separate bank accounts or "independence" or what have you, since I want somethings more than my own self gratification and hedonism in future, namely a family, which is means 'unity' not division, and judging by the results and situation around me, the career woman types are the last ones I would entrust with a family. Cheers.

[xBaron Dants]

just when i thought i'd seen the last of forum pseudoshrinks..here's another one! --look, crimson i don't know what kind of girls you've been hanging around with but i'll tell you this much: as bad and as naaaaaaaasty as some women can get, there's still more guys that are total assssses out there compared to women; you don't have to believe me or take my word for it; it won't change my life; but that's how i feel---and as far as you ASSUMING how much older i am than baron, well that's just it, merely YOUR assumption i'm not here to 'enlighten' anyone; i DO consider him rather immature cuz of his distasteful and irrelevant response to my post; i wasn't referring to him in my post but if he chooses to interpret it that way that's HIS problem and i can better spend my time than to address his ignorance! replying with a 'you must be a lesbian' to that post is reeeeeeeaaal mature! yaaaa!! ---and if you again read carefully instead of making assumptions you'd see that i never claimed to know more than anyone! on the contrary i was saying how one realizes his/her ignorance with age and cannot be so sure of anything...how is THAT saying that i claim to know more than him? it's the exact opposite of what i stated!!

I don't think you were any more mature by coming on here and treating all men as if they are idiots, sleazes, yevayln. And here's the reason why I posted that reply: It's the reply you wanted. What else could one have replied? "No really, I'm a good guy, please don't hate me"? You would've just said that he's lying anyways, so I allowed you to confirm your illusions of males being complete jerks, because I was feeling quite nice. I still fail to see how what you said made you any less of a jerk than all the men you were complaining about.

And Crimson, that was one helluva nice post.

[sSsflamesSs]

Ok, now for the views from someone that is older AND more intellectually inclined than most of this forum (yes, for the slow, I'm referring to me).

OK Crimson, pay attention. We have not agreed much in the past, but this last post of yours - just wow. Everything that I have included in the following quotes, I wholeheartedly agree with. But HOLY SH!T, how can that be?! I'm only 21 and you're 28! That would make me - oh my Lord - a whole 7 years younger than you. Yet - oh my Lord - I've held this same view for a few years now. So just stop it with the whole pretentious age thing, will ya?

The main reason the divorce rate is so high is because people have no clue what they want other than not to feel inadequate. Marriage is a must to be considered an adequate human being, because not getting married and having kids isn't considered "normal" by society. So, under pressure to elude such criticism, people tend to falsely attach their desires for that "perfect one" on to a person merely because they make them feel good, or share a thing or two in common with them. Despite the often rocky relationship, these people tend to get married. Years of deceiving themselves takes its toll on the facade, and the veil eventually drops. People grow tired of playing pretend, and/or they finally realize/accept the truth: This marriage was just a counterfeit relationship forged from insecurities and the need to feel loved. I have yet to meet a couple that is truly in love. They may THINK and BELIEVE they are, but in the true essence of the word, deep down inside, they're not. Those feelings are usually repressed at the initiation of the relationship. No one likes to fess up to the truth when the truth is bad. Then comes the BS of "you've changed!" This is a cop out from the truth of the situation, which is "I never loved you in the first place, but convinced myself I did because I don't want to die alone, or be the laughing stock of my family". There's only so long you can play the charade before one grows tired of it. And then, the divorce. Buh-bye!

Precisely. Humans, as I've said before on many occasions, are natural-born idiots. Of course there are a few exceptions, but these exceptions, as Crimson has said, end up as outcasts in society since they refuse to submit to the mold created by this same society. As I am exposed to more and more marriages, one unifying theme keeps jumping out at me - they all got married because they deceived themselves into believing that they are in love, when in reality, it was just convenient. Who wants to stay alone, right? Everyone's flaws become apparent over time. At first, the couple is all lovey dovey, blinded by passion, but after a while, the pretending gets rather old...and the fighting begins .

I still have some hope though. I do believe in love, but the possibility of finding it is verrryyy verrryyy small, sad to say.

But you have to realize this is not a gender issue, which is why my hatred is planted squarely where it should be: All of man kind.

Again, men and women are not separate species. They are part of the same species, and therefore, contribute equally to the idiocy of it. We are all bound by the human condition.

I'd make up a list of requirements of my own, but that would take up several pages. Some say I'm a bit stuck up due to this, but the truth is, everyone else has just lowered their standards.........SEVERLY! And if this is going to be "it", why wouldn't you make sure it is exactly what you want instead of "eehhh, good enough"?! That "good enough" attitude is, again, why the divorce rate is so high. If it never happens, if I never find anyone that fits the bill, so be it. I'm already counting on it, so no big deal. But I will NOT go along with the sheep and their “oh god! I must be what society wants to see” mentality! "Good enough" is NOT good enough for me, nor should it be for anyone else!

I can't believe I'm agreeing to so much of your post. But yes, people that lower their standards contribute to the divorce rate later on, or merely stay in a miserable relationship for the sake of convenience. Go ahead people, lower your standards, but I refuse to. I refuse to let myself live a joke (a marriage based on lowered standards).

And Anon, I must say, I do not agree at all to your idea of what causes the high divorce rate. You basically claim that it is the woman's fault, more often than not, and that, plainly put, is just stupid. We are all in this together. No gender is guiltier than the other. But I have found it pointless to argue with you, so that's that. No more out of me on that issue.