White people dating Armenian

[skhara]

Re: White people dating Armenian

Over 10 years ago there used to be an 80 years old Armenian man from Armenia that lived alone on a farm in "Armenia" Wisconsin. We went through the records of the town all the way back in the 1800's to figure out who came up with the name. Unfortunately we didn't find anything.

We should feel right at home. I didn't know this existed.

[karoaper]

Re: White people dating Armenian

Did you know this existed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia,_Wisconsin

I am north of it.

Over 10 years ago there used to be an 80 years old Armenian man from Armenia that lived alone on a farm in "Armenia" Wisconsin. We went through the records of the town all the way back in the 1800's to figure out who came up with the name. Unfortunately we didn't find anything.

Organized: 1858
First Settlers: Michael Banfield, Frank Cullen on Cranberry Creek in 1851
Origin of Name: Believed to be named by a group of immigrants from Armenia who lived across the Wisconsin River.
First Town Chairman: Joseph Hewitt
First School: Armenia Village in 1856
First Recorded Town Tax: $281.86 in 1865

* Armenia is the site of an estimated 1,500 Indian mounds of varying size and shapes.
* Armenia was named in 1856 when Juneau was still part of Adams County.
* Armenia was always one of the least settled parts of Juneau Co.

http://www.rootsweb.com/~wijuneau/Armenia.htm

[Azad]

Re: White people dating Armenian

Origin of Name: Believed to be named by a group of immigrants from Armenia who lived across the Wisconsin River.

Can it be? Since the first Armenian/s that came to the US were in later than that date. My understanding they started in Worcester MA in late 1800's. Were there Armenians pre 1858 in Wisconsin? We'll take the credit.

[Siamanto]

Re: White people dating Armenian

Are you insinuating that they were outcasts in the Middle East, as compared to, for instance, Europe? Do you really think that's why Armenians in the Middle East managed to stay closer to their Armenian heritage?

Not at all. People in the Middle East are very nice and friendly they just aren't to our lifestyle. Religious behavioral differences that made it hard for Armenians to integrate. On the other hand in the West it took them 1 to 2 generations and they were happy campers.

Before I present my view on the subject, I would like to clarify the following
1. We both agree that Armenians who escaped to countries of the Middle East seem to have more easily kept their traditions and cultural heritage - at least, when external signs of their behavior are considered. However, external signs - such as language, music... - may be misleading and should not be considered as the sole criteria of "closeness to the Armenian heitage" - or any other cultural heritage; the experiences of the Armenian, Jewish Diasporas and the Quebec, are abundant with examples that suggest otherwise. However, though relevant, it is beyond the scope of this post to consider the significance of external expressions or signs of a cultural heritage.
2. When comparing the Middle Eastern societies/cultures to their European counterparts, my purpose is not to oppose them, it is to distinguish them

I don't know if all Middle Easterns are "nice and friendly;" but, besides the lack of cultural and religious affinities - that you have mentioned - I believe that the following contributed to the fact that the Armenian Communities of the Middle East have more easily kept their traditions and cultural heritage - at least, the external signs of their Armenian cultural heritage.

1. Societies of the Middle East are not as organized and structured as their European counterparts and allow - naturally and unintentionally??? - "shade cultures" as they allow shade economies. The opposition, by Gilles Deleuze, of "espaces striées" ("grid" - literally, "striated" - spaces) and "espaces lisses" ("open" - literally, "smooth" - spaces) expresses a similar view
2. Societies of the Middle East lack the ideology of "organization efficiency" that constrains its members to more tightly integrate into the "organization" that is the society
3. (This may be related to the affinity, but cannot be completely reduced to it) Cultures of the Middle East are not perceived by the Armenians to be as evolved, refined and elevated as their European counterparts; that explains the lack of motivation and incentives to adopt the host culture, in the Armenian Communities of the Middle East

Briefly said, staying closer to their Armenian heritage - external signs or not - is not necessarily a merit of the Armenian Communities of the Middle East, but, somehow circumstantial?

[NightOwl]

Re: White people dating Armenian

When I mentioned British people I meant British who grew up there and moved to the US, I went to school with alot of them and found them to be one of the most friendliest and nice of nationalities I have met.

About the middle -eastern people. I have some Persian friends but I have met other middle eastern people, when i tell them im armenian I get a funny non-friendly response at times.

Israeli people have always been friendly and happy to know im armenian.

[Sip]

Re: White people dating Armenian

Did you know this existed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia,_Wisconsin

Ha! That's pretty cool. I've driven around in the area numerous times (GF's dad lives in Elroy) but never realized there was an Armenia there. Actually I was contemplating checking out the lakes in that area just north of the Dells but I never actually had the time. Who would've thunk it !!! An Armenia right there in the middle of cheese land.

[ARK]

Re: White people dating Armenian

1. Societies of the Middle East are not as organized and structured as their European counterparts and allow - naturally and unintentionally??? - "shade cultures" as they allow shade economies. The opposition, by Gilles Deleuze, of "espaces striées" ("grid" - literally, "striated" - spaces) and "espaces lisses" ("open" - literally, "smooth" - spaces) expresses a similar view
2. Societies of the Middle East lack the ideology of "organization efficiency" that constrains its members to more tightly integrate into the "organization" that is the society
3. (This may be related to the affinity, but cannot be completely reduced to it) Cultures of the Middle East are not perceived by the Armenians to be as evolved, refined and elevated as their European counterparts; that explains the lack of motivation and incentives to adopt the host culture, in the Armenian Communities of the Middle East

Briefly said, staying closer to their Armenian heritage - external signs or not - is not necessarily a merit of the Armenian Communities of the Middle East, but, somehow circumstantial?

R u sure that Armenians of the ME are not as organised as the European ones?
If they are so close together and pretty organized then why the asimilation is high in those countries such as france or US?

[Siamanto]

Re: White people dating Armenian

Before I present my view on the subject, I would like to clarify the following
1. We both agree that Armenians who escaped to countries of the Middle East seem to have more easily kept their traditions and cultural heritage - at least, when external signs of their behavior are considered. However, external signs - such as language, music... - may be misleading and should not be considered as the sole criteria of "closeness to the Armenian heitage" - or any other cultural heritage; the experiences of the Armenian, Jewish Diasporas and the Quebec, are abundant with examples that suggest otherwise. However, though relevant, it is beyond the scope of this post to consider the significance of external expressions or signs of a cultural heritage.
2. When comparing the Middle Eastern societies/cultures to their European counterparts, my purpose is not to oppose them, it is to distinguish them

I don't know if all Middle Easterns are "nice and friendly;" but, besides the lack of cultural and religious affinities - that you have mentioned - I believe that the following contributed to the fact that the Armenian Communities of the Middle East have more easily kept their traditions and cultural heritage - at least, the external signs of their Armenian cultural heritage.

1. Societies of the Middle East are not as organized and structured as their European counterparts and allow - naturally and unintentionally??? - "shade cultures" as they allow shade economies. The opposition, by Gilles Deleuze, of "espaces striées" ("grid" - literally, "striated" - spaces) and "espaces lisses" ("open" - literally, "smooth" - spaces) expresses a similar view
2. Societies of the Middle East lack the ideology of "organization efficiency" that constrains its members to more tightly integrate into the "organization" that is the society
3. (This may be related to the affinity, but cannot be completely reduced to it) Cultures of the Middle East are not perceived by the Armenians to be as evolved, refined and elevated as their European counterparts; that explains the lack of motivation and incentives to adopt the host culture, in the Armenian Communities of the Middle East

Briefly said, staying closer to their Armenian heritage - external signs or not - is not necessarily a merit of the Armenian Communities of the Middle East, but, somehow circumstantial?

R u sure that Armenians of the ME are not as organised as the European ones?
If they are so close together and pretty organized then why the asimilation is high in those countries such as france or US?

In my post above, "society" refers to the host society, excluding Armenians - such as Iraqi, Lebanese, Syrian etc. - where the Armenian Community found refuge, when escaping the Genocide. Of course, my arguments may also apply to the Iranian Society.
In other words, I was not comparing the different Armenian Communities, but, the (host) societies.

To summarize, I said that the different nature and type - and, some may say degree - of organization, coupled with the lack of ideology and/or political will to integrate, in the Middle Eastern (host) societies, allowed looser and fuzzier interactions with the Armenian Communities, and a "shade culture" that allowed the Armenians to stay closer to their Armenian heritage - at least, when external signs are considered.

In fact, societies that are highly organized and have a well defined ideology and a clearly articulated political will to integrate immigrants - or immigrant communities - into the (host) society, create all conditions to facilitate/encourage/constrain/... integration - and consequently, assimilation, acculturation. I have never heard of a well defined policy/ideology to integrate immigrants into the (host) society, in the Middle East...have you?
Yes, it's very important to learn and speak the Armenian Language and be as close as possible to the Armenian Heritage; but, I don't understand why Armenians from the Middle Eastern countries brag so much about it, putting down others; they have no "personal" merit, as it is circumstantial?

I hope that the above somehow clarified the misunderstanding???

[Azad]

Re: White people dating Armenian

In fact, societies that are highly organized and have a well defined ideology and a clearly articulated political will to integrate immigrants - or immigrant communities - into the (host) society, create all conditions to facilitate/encourage/constrain/... integration - and consequently, assimilation, acculturation. I have never heard of a well defined policy/ideology to integrate immigrants into the (host) society, in the Middle East...have you?

Siamanto your theory doesn't hold any water. Lebanon is very organized more organized than any European country and they do have an open policy of integration. ONLY a small number of Armenians integrated with a selective group of refined non-Armenian Christians. I firmly believe it is based on religious behavior with some racial selectivity.

[Siamanto]

Re: White people dating Armenian

In fact, societies that are highly organized and have a well defined ideology and a clearly articulated political will to integrate immigrants - or immigrant communities - into the (host) society, create all conditions to facilitate/encourage/constrain/... integration - and consequently, assimilation, acculturation. I have never heard of a well defined policy/ideology to integrate immigrants into the (host) society, in the Middle East...have you?

Siamanto your theory doesn't hold any water. Lebanon is very organized more organized than any European country and they do have an open policy of integration. ONLY a small number of Armenians integrated with a selective group of refined non-Armenian Christians.

It is a bit funny to consider one of the most chaotic, disorganized and dysfunctional societies of the planet as "very organized more organized than any European country." You have a sense of humor.

That's probably why
1. The government is totally dysfunctional and useless; if existent, the institutions are corrupt and disorganized; the country doesn't even have a real army and can't even elect a president - the French Foreign Minister and other European diplomats where there, only last week, to help them in the process
2. There's no understanding of Civic Rights and the role of the government among the population; it seems to be common knowledge that votes are bought
3. Poor infrastructures: no regular electricity - even in the capital of the country, poor water distribution, hardly the concept of traffic lights etc. etc.
4. Almost inexistent tax collection, huge shadow economy i.e. most of the economy etc. etc.
5....
The list is long as it is common knowledge that Lebanon is a total mess.

I firmly believe it is based on religious behavior with some racial selectivity.

What do you mean? I'm afraid that stating without explaining is meaningless. In any case, did not notice that I said:
"The different nature and type - and, some may say degree - of organization, coupled with the lack of ideology and/or political will to integrate?"