White people dating Armenian

[Azad]

Re: White people dating Armenian

It is a bit funny to consider one of the most chaotic, disorganized and dysfunctional societies of the planet as "very organized more organized than any European country." You have a sense of humor.

You are wrong again. I am not sure how familiar you are with the Middle East. When you start comparing the vast resources of the Northern Americas with the predominantly White European controlling and managing majority you would not be doing justice. You should compare Lebanon to France's regions with predominantly North Africans (we all know what happened last year) or better yet compare Lebanon to New Orleans and tell us why the world most "organized" country can not build back one city. Now compare the devastations that happened in Lebanon for the last 30 decades and see how vibrant and functioning the city is and tell us why New Orleans is still "Beirut" of the war?

The government is totally dysfunctional and useless;

Have you dealt with the French "government" ? I did. Try and see how long it takes to start a business. They even need a "certificate" to be a waiter in France.

if existent, the institutions are corrupt and disorganized; the country doesn't even have a real army and can't even elect a president - the French Foreign Minister and other European diplomats where there, only last week, to help them in the process

Let us hope Lebanon will in return send some diplomats to the world court (Belgium) when they will decide to have a civil war that is going to divide them cause of language differences.

There's no understanding of Civic Rights and the role of the government among the population; it seems to be common knowledge that votes are bought

In the population of 300 million Americans the 3 members of the Bush family had 2 presidents and many governors in the last 20 years. I am sure it was all fair system of process.

Poor infrastructures: no regular electricity - even in the capital of the country, poor water distribution, hardly the concept of traffic lights etc. etc.

And yet it is in the US that we always have major food poisoning from meat, spinach, fast food restaurants....


You are not making sense Siamanto. If it was war the measuring criteria of a functioning society than the largest wars were waged in what you are describing "organized" societies. If it is bribery that you have no clue how things works with legal bribery in the west ... how did turkey defeated the Armenian Genocide passage with the US government? What is that money called that the lobbies are accepting from turkey and funneling it to politicians to switch votes?

[Siamanto]

Re: White people dating Armenian

It is a bit funny to consider one of the most chaotic, disorganized and dysfunctional societies of the planet as "very organized more organized than any European country." You have a sense of humor.

You are wrong again. I am not sure how familiar you are with the Middle East.

Familiar enough to reasonably make my statement above. In any case, besides being common knowledge, I've heard too many Armenians from Lebanon make similar statements.

When you start comparing the vast resources of the Northern Americas with the predominantly White European controlling and managing majority you would not be doing justice. You should compare Lebanon to France's regions with predominantly North Africans (we all know what happened last year)

I seriously don't know what you are talking about: it is about the society as an organization, not a region or a Community that lives within the geographical limits of the society. Are you familiar with the concept of a society as in "American Society," "French Society?" I'm puzzled. It's an ideological/organizational/political/cultural concept/entity.

or better yet compare Lebanon to New Orleans and tell us why the world most "organized" country can not build back one city. Now compare the devastations that happened in Lebanon for the last 30 decades and see how vibrant and functioning the city is and tell us why New Orleans is still "Beirut" of the war?

First of all, organization often implies bureaucracy that may complicate and slow down the process; second of all, it may have inefficiencies.
Regardless, there is an organization and a process - despite it being slow.

In any case, wasn't most/all of the construction done either in an uncontrolled, "unurbanistic" manner and/or by corporations owned by members of the government?

Again, I will remind you that I said:
"The different nature and type - and, some may say degree - of organization, coupled with the lack of ideology and/or political will to integrate."
I don't see what part seems unclear to you?

The government is totally dysfunctional and useless;

Have you dealt with the French "government" ? I did.

I'll let you have a wild guess!

Try and see how long it takes to start a business. They even need a "certificate" to be a waiter in France.

LOL That simply means that the French Society is organized in a way that was called above "espaces striées." As I said, you have an unusual sense of humor!

if existent, the institutions are corrupt and disorganized; the country doesn't even have a real army and can't even elect a president - the French Foreign Minister and other European diplomats where there, only last week, to help them in the process

Let us hope Lebanon will in return send some diplomats to the world court (Belgium) when they will decide to have a civil war that is going to divide them cause of language differences.

What is the relevance? Are you making any effort to dialogue?

There's no understanding of Civic Rights and the role of the government among the population; it seems to be common knowledge that votes are bought

In the population of 300 million Americans the 3 members of the Bush family had 2 presidents and many governors in the last 20 years. I am sure it was all fair system of process.

Regardless, in average, political awareness and awareness of Civic Rights is much higher than in the Middle East/Lebanon.

Poor infrastructures: no regular electricity - even in the capital of the country, poor water distribution, hardly the concept of traffic lights etc. etc.

And yet it is in the US that we always have major food poisoning from meat, spinach, fast food restaurants....

LOL What is the relevance? Are you making any effort to dialogue?

You are not making sense Siamanto. If it was war the measuring criteria of a functioning society than the largest wars were waged in what you are describing "organized" societies. If it is bribery that you have no clue how things works with legal bribery in the west ... how did turkey defeated the Armenian Genocide passage with the US government? What is that money called that the lobbies are accepting from turkey and funneling it to politicians to switch votes?

LOL Who said that war is or is not "the measuring criteria of a functioning society??" Are there words in my posts that only you can see?
What has organization has to do with bribery and eithics in general? etc. etc.

Azad, if your intent is to dialogue and communicate, then please have the courtesy to consider what is said. Otherwise, it would be a waste of time - so far, it seems to be.
No offense, but you need to first make an effort to carefully read and understand my initial post, as you seem to have misunderstood it??? as the purpose was not to judge; all forms of organizations have their advantages and shortcomings.

1. My first post said: "2. When comparing the Middle Eastern societies/cultures to their European counterparts, my purpose is not to oppose them, it is to distinguish them"
2. Some consider "espaces striées" as coercitive form of organization; actually, if you have read carefully, I used the "constrain"
3. ...

[Lucin]

Re: White people dating Armenian

What about the Iranian-Armenian community who did not escape the Genocide and have been around for over four hundred years and have always been looked upon highly and revered? How did they manage to 'survive' in a relatively friendly enviornment ( Iranian society) where they were prone to assimilation? Could it be the religious gap which has set apart not only the Persian-Armenian community but also the two nations of Iran and Armenia?? This is the only factor I can think of...
Nevertheless, if the main reason is the religous gap between Persians and Armenians, then why the same is not happening with Polsahays (who once were giving to the Armenian nation brilliant minds) who are living in such a hostile envioronment but are in such a pathetic situation and assimilating into Turks?!

As for the French-Armenian and the American-Armenian communities, they both seem to be in a very close competition of who is assimilating faster into their societies.

[Azad]

Re: White people dating Armenian

if the main reason is the religous gap between Persians and Armenians, then why the same is not happening with Polsahays .... who are living in such a hostile envioronment but are in such a pathetic situation and assimilating into Turks?!

Lucin the "Polsahays" are the exception. If you ever analyzed their behavior you will see they have the two extreme results. You will find one group that retained their Armenian identity to the extreme and another that let go to the constant pressure of turkification. The key with Polsahays is PRESSURE. A society that looks down at them till they integrate.. where in the rest of the Middle East Armenians have the "superiority" complex. I have to add without being disrespectful to our Polsahays Armenians that the first group that did retain their Armenian identity have major Psychological problems of a hate & love relationship with turks. It is like being raised in a family of kurds that killed your parents. You hate them internally for what they did to you but you still love them cause they are your "parents".

[Armenian]

Re: White people dating Armenian

Could it be the religious gap which has set apart not only the Persian-Armenian community but also the two nations of Iran and Armenia?? This is the only factor I can think of...

You are correct in your assumption. In societies that take religions seriously societal barriers, in this case the division between Christians and Muslims in the region, are impenetrable.

Nevertheless, if the main reason is the religous gap between Persians and Armenians, then why the same is not happening with Polsahays (who once were giving to the Armenian nation brilliant minds) who are living in such a hostile envioronment but are in such a pathetic situation and assimilating into Turks?!

Let's also remember that for several centuries Armenians lived quite well in the Ottoman Empire. So, there again, Armenians managed to thrive and keep their identity in a relatively "friendly" society due to religious differences that existed between Ottoman Armenians and Ottoman Turks. And at certain time periods, hostility against Armenians by Turks mixed with religious differences fostered a sense of nationalism within Armenians.

As for the French-Armenian and the American-Armenian communities, they both seem to be in a very close competition of who is assimilating faster into their societies.

Yes ,because in the western world Armenians have found a Christian society, a liberal society, a friendly society, and a high standard of living.

[jgk3]

Re: White people dating Armenian

I appreciate your honesty there. I too am somewhere in the middle. For example, sometimes I care too much about what non-Armenians think. Or let me rephrase that: I get above-normal excited when a non-Armenian, especially a "white" one, complements or praises our people.

I was like this too. Nowadays I don't get excited anymore because I know we're all individuals in the end. I try to abide by the customs of good people around here, and I show to both French Canadians and English Canadians here that I am interested in their cultural endeavors. I respect them greatly and that usually makes them happy. This for me, is far better than receiving praise for my own culture. I've realized that I don't need praise for my culture, I much prefer when people feel a connection towards some aspect of my identity, which is quite varied and includes things that are beyond ethnicity, including spirituality, music, my scholarly interests, and martial arts.

Don't get me wrong though, I care greatly about Armenian culture, I'm just not out to prove something about it to people who don't want anything to do with it.

[Anonymouse]

Re: White people dating Armenian

It seems people all have the 'answers' to everything in this god forsaken society. I have lately seen the weirdest couples of Armenian-Mexican, Armenian-Asian, Armenian-black. Jesus H. Christ this is a potentially nightmarish trend.

[jgk3]

Re: White people dating Armenian

Basically, to us, any mixing that is not with a caucasian is viewed as weird, and it's always been that way. But what can you do... that's North America.

[Anonymouse]

Re: White people dating Armenian

Basically, to us, any mixing that is not with a caucasian is viewed as weird, and it's always been that way. But what can you do... that's North America.

Actually, that's pretty much "the West."

[jgk3]

Re: White people dating Armenian

yeah, I wanted to say west, but I didn't know enough about how Armenians are in Europe or Australia to make that call personally. I guess it's not that different either though.