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Vaccinations (Countering the misinformation of Anti-Vaxx Movement)

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  • #51
    Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

    Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
    There are news stories trying to sway public opinion on getting the H1N1 vaccine by claiming the US is getting the live virus vaccine and the Canadian vaccine is the killed strain so it is safe. What incentive would a reporter have to make up stories? If the seasonal flu is the same, then once you get sick, you should be immune to it. There is no H1N1 outbreak and it is not deadly, why are they so persistent with selling this to the public?
    I was commenting on the example you gave of the media reporting deaths not attributed to H1N1 by doctors as H1N1 deaths. I don't know what you're talking about as to the type of vaccine.
    The incentive to fear-monger is clear... it gets people to watch the news.

    Influenza is influenza, but it mutates so there are different strains. That is why we get some protection, but not immunity unless to the identical strains. This is what necessitates an annual vaccine. My point was that H1N1 was built the same way as the seasonal flu vaccine every year. It's not a completely new vaccine. It's made the same way.
    [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
    -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

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    • #52
      Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

      My appologies for not having read this entire thread before commenting (in case this has been discussed) but Google flu trends recently added a number of new countries (in addition to the US) and provides some very interesting data about this year's flu craze.

      www.google.org/flutrends

      In case you haven't seen this before, they are able to track flu outbreaks, fairly accurately, by what people are searching on google, much faster than the CDC is publishing their findings.
      this post = teh win.

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      • #53
        Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

        The CBS article that KanadaHye posted is a very revealing investigation. It helps prove what many "conspiracy theorists" have been saying all along. Namely, that this flu is blown WAY out of proportion, in order to create panic amongst people which works to boost demand for vaccination programs (a multibillion dollar industry).


        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX14w...eature=related

        Listen to what Barbara Loe Fisher says in the first half of Part 2:

        Originally posted by Barbara Loe Fisher
        This assumption that we ought to never, ever have any experience with influenza or other kinds of infections is potentially counter-productive to achieving true good health. One of the things I’ve been worried about is if you try to prevent all experience, from childhood, with Type A or Type B influenza with vaccination, which only gives you a temporary immunity at best, you take out from the population, you prevent the population from ever having any natural experience with influenza, and you basically set up a situation where you become vaccine-dependent and you become exquisitely vulnerable to future pandemics of potentially more dangerous types of influenza because the population has no natural immunity whatsoever. And who’s right is it really, to decide, to make that kind of a decision for a population, that there should be no natural experience with Type A or Type B influenza and that we should become totally vaccine-dependent?

        And notice how they discuss an investigation which highlights the conflicts of interest between the federal policymakers in the FDA and CDC and the companies that manufacture the vaccines. They are saying exactly what KanadaHye has been saying this whole time. So are these professionals in fact just conspiracy theorists? Are they engaging in psuedo-science?
        Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!

        Ten soldiers wisely led, will beat a hundred without a head.

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        • #54
          Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

          Meanwhile, Armenia continues to remain H1N1 free but remains on high alert in case of an outbreak.
          --------------------------------------------------------
          Armenia has no swine-flu cases registered


          According to Armenia’s chief infectiologist, Ara Asoyan, and Anti-Epidemiological Inspectorate Director Artavazd Vanyan, there has not been a single case of H1N1 virus in Armenia.

          Sanitary-quarantine measures have been put in place to prevent spread of infection, Artavazd Vanyan announced. He also pointed that Armenia has got all the necessary laboratory equipment providing medical examination.

          414 thousand laboratory-confirmed cases have been reported worldwide, said Ara Asoyan.

          http://www.aysor.am/en/news/2009/10/30/grip/
          Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

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          • #55
            Mumps INCREASING

            Originally posted by NYDailyNews

            Old-fashioned mumps make comeback in Borough Park; 57 confirmed cases

            City health officials warned Thursday of an outbreak of the old-fashioned childhood disease mumps in the Borough Park section of Brooklyn.

            The outbreak was traced to a child who went to Britain - where the illness is more common because of lower levels of vaccination - and then attended a summer camp upstate, apparently infecting dozens of kids.

            City health officials say there are 57 confirmed or probable cases and they are investigating more. Those infected are mostly between 10 and 15 years old.

            Puzzlingly, 75% of the victims had the normal two doses of mumps vaccine, which is supposed to protect against the illness 90% of the time.

            "We know that approximately one in every 20 people who are vaccinated may not develop antibodies," said Dr. Jane Zucker, assistant commissioner of immunization. "If the vaccine was not effective we would have many, many more cases. "

            The infection caused by the mumps virus was a common scourge of childhood - and a leading cause of deafness - until vaccination largely ended it in the developed world.

            Typically, it causes a painful swelling of the salivary glands. In rarer cases, patients can be rendered deaf.

            It spreads through coughs and sneezes, and a person becomes ill about two weeks after exposure.

            There is no treatment. The illness usually lasts about 10 days.
            source
            [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
            -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

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            • #56
              Anti-vaxxers mislead people

              Originally posted by Annette Cardwell

              Why I feel duped by the anti-vaccine movement


              I have a 3-year-old daughter and a kid on the way. So I am fully aware of the vaccine debate. And by now, I’ve been conditioned to believe that my thinking on vaccines should always be, "Question everything."

              But having just read the November cover story from Wired ("An Epidemic of Fear"), I'm now questioning why I’ve been so skeptical. Do I just feel this way because the anti-vaccine movement has me duped? Or are those fears grounded in something real?

              The article asserts this: People who choose not to get vaccinated or get their children vaccinated are putting all of us at risk by increasing likelihood of outbreaks of previously nearly eradicated diseases. And those people have an irrational fear of something that's been proven time and again to be safe or at least a lesser risk than the alternative.

              The story also shows that the problem with the anti-vaccine message is that it's not just about skepticism, which is of course healthy; it's really about fear of what might do your child harm versus what actually will. It says that we're letting that fear of being bad parents overtake what we should really fear: the diseases themselves.

              The aha moment for me comes from the piece's most controversial interview subject, Dr. Paul Offit, creator of many vaccines who is also Public Enemy #1 for anti-vaccine activists: “The choice not to get a vaccine is not a choice to take no risk,” he says. “It’s just a choice to take a different risk, and we need to be better about saying, ‘Here’s what that different risk looks like.’ Dying of Hib meningitis is a horrible, ugly way to die.”

              We here on Shine know firsthand that the anti-vaccine movement is not just active; it's practically devout. Its followers believe vociferously in their theories, and they don't take kindly to doubters. Many in this movement, especially those who have autistic children, are desperately looking for answers, and also want to protect other kids from ill effects. It's hard to tell someone watching their child suffer that they shouldn't explore every avenue of possibility, even ones that haven’t been proven in a lab.

              But it’s difficult for me personally to ignore the hard-science statistics and studies that show that declining vaccination rates are bringing back diseases that were once thought to be eradicated (measles, mumps, pertussis). And it’s equally tough to disregard that many anti-vaccine arguments are held up by "evidence" that’s mostly conjecture. The story accurately points out that our modern society tends to think of health as something that "can be managed and controlled if we just make the right decisions." And as we flock to the Internet for answers, we end up finding a wealth of misinformation to back up our greatest worries.

              Obviously, this story treads into extremely controversial territory with guns blazing. And maybe that aggressive, often-belligerent tone was what I needed to take a close look at my own beliefs. I realized that a lot of my concern over vaccines was based on others telling me what I should think.

              So from here on, with my pediatrician's guidance, I'm officially a pro-vaccination mommy. My declaring my change of heart is not meant to be a judgment on anyone else’s choice to not vaccinate. I’m only hoping other parents will take a close look at how they're making their own choices, and ensure they’re choosing to not vaccinate just based on being scared or bullied into the non-vaccine camp.

              I really feel for those who believe their suffering or their family’s suffering is caused by vaccines.And if there's a connection there, I'll trust one day it'll be discovered. But for my family and my child, I'm choosing to go with current science on this one, and I will choose to protect them and myself from real dangers versus unproven ones.
              Source
              [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
              -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

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              • #57
                Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

                Originally posted by Steven Novella

                Robert E. Bartholomew is a social scientist who specializes in mass delusions. He describes them here, in an article he wrote for the NESS, but also in a longer article here for the Skeptical Inquirer and in his several books. About mass delusions he writes:
                "A collective delusion is the term most commonly used by social scientists to describe the relatively spontaneous spread of false beliefs that do not occur in an organized, institutionalized or ritualistic fashion."

                Today, we live in a connected virtual community, and YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, and blogs, in addition to traditional media, are the medium through which community panic and delusions spread.

                At this time there are two slow panics spreading through the community – fear of the H1N1 “swine” flu pandemic, and fear of the vaccine to prevent H1N1 flu. Regarding the pandemic itself – this is a real threat, it is just not known at this time how severe it will turn out to be. So far it is looking like another seasonal flu in severity, but with some different features, such as a greater tendency to severely affect otherwise healthy individuals.

                The panic over the vaccine, however, is entirely manufactured, primarily by dedicated conspiracy theorists and anti-vaccinationists, and then aided by irresponsible media. There have been two stories in particular about alleged severe reactions following vaccines recently, one dealing with the HPV vaccine and the recent cased of what is being called dystonia following the seasonal flu vaccine. The young girl who died within hours of getting the HPV vaccine was found to have a heart defect, and her death had nothing to do with the vaccine, so that story was rather short-lived.

                The new case making the rounds, however, appears to have some legs. It is getting international news attention, and I am being flooded with e-mail requests to analyze the case.

                This is the story of Desiree Jennings, who is a 28 year old cheerleader who was apparently healthy until August when she received the seasonal flu vaccine. Ten days later she developed a severe respiratory illness, probably the flu, requiring hospitalization. She then developed an apparent neurological reaction in which she has difficulty speaking and walking, with involuntary muscle contractions and contortions. Her symptoms (including speech) are relieved, however, by walking backwards or by running. She also seems to have attacks of muscle contortions.

                News reports are presenting her story as a rare vaccine reaction. Take a look at the video of her movements on this news report also.

                This case, of course, has been immediately picked up by the anti-vaccine crowd. Generation Rescue, Jenny McCarthy’s anti-vaccine organization, wasted no time in exploiting this poor girl for their own agenda. She is now the latest poster child in the war against vaccines.

                The media is largely covered in fail over their reporting of this case. They failed to ask basic journalistic questions – was the illness Jennings suffered from due to the vaccine, was it confirmed as the flu, and was it the strain from the vaccine, was the incubation period compatible with a vaccine-induced flu, did she get the live-virus version of the vaccine, does she really have dystonia, has that diagnosis been verified, are their other possibilities, and what is the plausibility that it was caused by the vaccine?

                None of these basic questions are addressed in the news reports – instead we are given an emotional report of a “one in a million” (a figure apparently pulled out of someone’s butt) vaccine reaction. Her episodes are called “seizures” when they are almost certainly not seizures. Her condition has also been called permanent and irreversible – without any justification.

                Normally I try to refrain from making medical diagnoses in public cases – but Jennings has now inserted herself in to the anti-vaccine movement, and is using her own case to “warn about the dangers of vaccines.” To mitigate the damage to public health brought about by misinformation in this case, I think it is necessary to provide some expert opinion.

                The movements and symptoms that Ms. Jennings displays on the public videos I have seen (linked to above) are not compatible with the diagnosis of dystonia, or any other movement disorder. Dystonia is one type of involuntary contraction of muscles. It can be reduced or exacerbated by certain movements or positions, and there are “task specific” dystonia, such as writer’s cramp, that come out only with certain activity. Jennings does not display the type of movements that are consistent with dystonia. Her speech and movement are, however, very suggestive of a psychogenic disorder.

                This also seems to be the consensus opinion of experts who have viewed this case. The Dystonia Medical Research Foundation had this to say about the case:
                "Because of the concern of individuals with dystonia as to whether or not to get a flu shot because of this reported case, we have sought the opinion of dystonia experts on this case. Based on the footage that has been shared with the public, it is their unanimous consensus that this case does not appear to be dystonia."

                The one news report that I saw that actually consulted an expert for their opinion was Fox News. Leigh Vinocur, and emergency room physician, was interviewed and relayed the opinion that the neurologists she consulted were of the opinion that Jennings’ symptoms were consistent with a psychogenic disorder. In other words – her symptoms are not neurological, they are psychological. This does not mean she has any insight or voluntary control over her symptoms – they are involuntary and “real” – just not neurological in origin. Symptoms such as this are not uncommon reactions to emotional stress in some individuals. Given the evidence presented, I think this is a reasonable opinion.

                Dr. Vinocur also points out that there are no reported cases of true dystonia resulting from the flu vaccine – this is not a known or established vaccine reaction.

                Here is another interview on Fox with a movement disorder specialist, Dr. Stephen Grill, who concurs that (based upon the video, and not personal examination) Ms. Jennings does not have true dystonia but psychogenic dystonia.

                It is therefore highly unlikely that whatever Jennings is suffering from now had anything to do with the flu vaccine she received in August. Unfortunately, this is not stopping irresponsible news coverage or exploitation by anti-vaccinationists. Further, Jennings is now in the hands of the Generation Rescue anti-vaccine quacks. I predict that they will be able to “cure” her, because psychogenic disorders can and do spontaneously resolve. They will then claim victory for their quackery in curing a (non-existent) vaccine injury.

                In addition to the public harm, Ms. Jennings herself is likely to be harmed by the media attention her case is garnering. She likely could benefit from proper medical attention of her condition. But now she is publicly invested in her disorder, and is likely to accept care from those with their own anti-vaccine agenda. It is difficult enough dealing with psychogenic disorders without international public attention and controversy.

                The medical community is always careful to point out that there are very rare reactions to vaccines. No one is claiming that they are 100% safe – no medical intervention is. But severe reactions are very rare. Meanwhile, about 36,000 people die each year in the US alone from the seasonal flu. That figure is likely to be higher this year, as seasonal strains are combined with the H1N1 strain to form a particularly bad flu season. We are fortunate that there are vaccines both for the seasonal flu and the H1N1 flu, which is particularly well targeted because we know the strain.

                Other measures for minimizing spread of the flu are, as always, also important – wash your hands, stay home if you are ill, and avoid contact with those with respiratory symptoms. But the vaccines are likely to significantly reduce the spread and severity of the flu. And yet, fear-mongering and misinformation, such as with the Jennings case, are scaring people away from the vaccines, without good cause.
                Source
                [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
                -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

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                • #58
                  Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

                  Originally posted by Federate View Post
                  Meanwhile, Armenia continues to remain H1N1 free but remains on high alert in case of an outbreak.
                  --------------------------------------------------------
                  Armenia has no swine-flu cases registered


                  According to Armenia’s chief infectiologist, Ara Asoyan, and Anti-Epidemiological Inspectorate Director Artavazd Vanyan, there has not been a single case of H1N1 virus in Armenia.

                  Sanitary-quarantine measures have been put in place to prevent spread of infection, Artavazd Vanyan announced. He also pointed that Armenia has got all the necessary laboratory equipment providing medical examination.

                  414 thousand laboratory-confirmed cases have been reported worldwide, said Ara Asoyan.

                  http://www.aysor.am/en/news/2009/10/30/grip/
                  Must be our genes. There is a giant swine flu repelling force around us.
                  "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

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                  • #59
                    Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

                    Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
                    Must be our genes. There is a giant swine flu repelling force around us.
                    Maybe it has a Turkish origin.
                    Եւ մի տանիր զմեզ ի բորձութիւն
                    Այլ փրկեա ի չարէ:

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                    • #60
                      Re: Vaccinations (Countering the misinformation of Anti-Vaxx Movement)

                      You can make an argument for vaccines that treat especially horrible diseases, so we won't go there. But to sit there and tell me that its okay to get a flu shot once a year (twice now with the swine flu), when each shot contains mercury, heavy metals, and animal DNA, goes against basic science and medicine. Mercury is a known toxin, and it does damage at the scale of parts per Billion, as opposed to most things that are measured in parts per Million. That means a single molecule of mercury can do damage to your body (the damage is not always visible), and these flu shots contain many, many molecules of it (and mercury is just one of the many harmful ingredients)

                      So these doctors are basically saying its okay to put mercury into your bloodstream. Thanks for the update. While we're at it, maybe we should rewrite all known information in regards to mercury, and give these guys a Nobel Prize for their brilliant discovery

                      Many doctors and healthcare workers refuse to be vaccinated. Its reached the point where the state has to FORCE people in the medical industry to get vaccinated. Why would people in the medical industry resist vaccination if the risk is worth it? So do most people in the medical industry engage in psuedo-science and conspiracy theories, or do they know something most of us don't?


                      Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_rKKawZx0I

                      Pay attention at 5:00. Listen to what the doctor says:

                      "I'm gonna get it, if that helps at all. But I'll tell you, my wife is not gonna immunize our kids. Cause I've got four of them, and when I go home I'm not Dr. Oz, I'm Mr. Oz."

                      A red flag if I ever saw one. He's getting one because he has no choice, so he has to put a smile on his face and tell people why the vaccines are good for you. But if children are at the highest risk of this flu, why wouldn't this doctor make his kids get vaccinated? Lets use some common sense, guys.
                      Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!

                      Ten soldiers wisely led, will beat a hundred without a head.

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