Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Vaccinations (Countering the misinformation of Anti-Vaxx Movement)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Siggie
    replied
    Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

    Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
    Why are so against opposing viewpoints... everyone has a right to make decisions on their own and nobody should be dictated what to do. These aren't janitors that are speaking out, they are doctors that are impartial to the businesses that promote vaccines.
    No, the anti-vaxxers are not doctors. The story you cited about is about one very specific vaccine in Germany. Further, if adults don't want to get a flu vaccine, it's one thing, but deciding not to immunize their children is quite another. They are putting not only their own children at risk, but also other people's children because it affects herd immunity.

    Leave a comment:


  • KanadaHye
    replied
    Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

    Originally posted by Siggie View Post
    No one sways you... I have posted the opinions of doctors as well when we (the collective we, not just you and I) have discussed this topic in the past. Actually I cited a lot of research demonstrating no relationship between vaccinations (MMR particularly) and autism. Here's that last thread

    Just to name a couple who have been especially vocal...

    Dr. Joe Albietz - Assistant Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Colorodo School of Medicine

    Dr. Steven Novella - Assistant Professor and Director of General Neurology at Yale University School of Medicine

    I know you're going to reply, but I am planning on using this thread for all future anti-vaxxer type information so a warning/request is in order: Please keep your comments here limited to that topic because I will remove them otherwise.
    Why are so against opposing viewpoints... everyone has a right to make decisions on their own and nobody should be dictated what to do. These aren't janitors that are speaking out, they are doctors that are impartial to the businesses that promote vaccines.

    Leave a comment:


  • KanadaHye
    replied
    Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

    Originally posted by Siggie View Post
    No one sways you... I have posted the opinions of doctors as well.

    Just to name a couple who have been especially vocal...

    Dr. Joe Albietz - Assistant Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Colorodo School of Medicine

    Dr. Steven Novella - Assistant Professor and Director of General Neurology at Yale University School of Medicine
    The N1H1 aka Swine Flu "scare" is attracting a whole new group of Anti-Vaccine supporters, rightfully so. Aside from those that have autistic children (which is awful for those people that do) I think most people get their children vaccinated with the traditional recommended vaccinations. Autism does seem to be more prevalent in the U.S. for some reason... could be other factors relating to lifestyle since the supposed same vaccinations are used in all developed countries. From what I gather, mercury is added to vaccines as a preservative and perhaps that wasn't the practice until recent years.


    Concern in Germany as safety of swine flu vaccines questioned

    GERMANY’S SWINE flu vaccination programme has been hit by public health concerns over the vaccines being used – one of which has been ordered by the Irish Government.

    Germany’s 16 federal states have spent a reported €600 million buying 50 million doses of the Pandemrix vaccine, produced by GlaxoSmithKline (GSK).

    This new vaccine, one of two to be offered by Irish doctors, is the subject of controversy in Germany because it contains a “booster” substance known as an “adjuvant”. This allows less virus material to be used per dose and, according to GSK, boosts the immune system’s response to the jab.

    Pandemrix was approved for use by the European Medicines Agency last month and has the approval of Germany’s Paul Ehrlich Institute, which advises the government on vaccination matters. However, another government body, the Federal Vaccination Agency, has contradicted the institute and has advised against the use of vaccines containing adjuvants.

    Concerns about Pandemrix’s safety and efficacy have been raised by several German medical organisations, with warnings against using it to vaccinate high-risk groups such as pregnant women and children.

    Dr Wolfram Hartmann, president of the German association of paediatricians, accused the federal government of “false testimony” for recommending Pandemrix for use on young children – six weeks after it issued advice to the contrary.

    “The vaccine has not yet been tested on children under three, so the risk is simply too big to use on them without misgivings,” he said.

    The vaccine confusion grew over the weekend when it emerged that the German government and armed forces are to receive a different jab to the public. Celvapan, produced by drug company Baxter, is a traditional vaccine containing no booster substances.

    The interior ministry in Berlin denied yesterday it was a case of two-tier medical care. A spokesperson said the federal government had a contract to buy Baxter flu vaccination products for state employees.

    The Health Service Executive (HSE), now delivering the GSK vaccine to GPs and awaiting supplies of the Baxter one, said the safety data base for the GSK adjuvant includes more than 10,000 individuals.

    “As with any vaccines, risks have to be balanced with the benefits and the authorities in Ireland are satisfied that the benefits from both vaccines outweigh any possible risks of side effects.” The HSE said Ireland continues to see an increase in swine flu cases every week as well as fatalities associated with this virus. The fifth fatality was confirmed last night. The deceased, an adult male in the east, had an underlying medical condition.

    “Vaccination is the most important tool we have to protect the Irish population,” the HSE said.

    Stirring things up even further in Germany yesterday, outgoing interior minister Wolfgang Schäuble said: “I’m not even sure if I will be getting vaccinated at all.”

    In an attempt to calm the situation, Chancellor Angela Merkel’s spokesman said the German leader, if so advised by her doctor, would be vaccinated with Pandemrix.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...257059631.html
    Last edited by KanadaHye; 10-21-2009, 08:47 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Siggie
    replied
    Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

    No one sways you... I have posted the opinions of doctors as well when we (the collective we, not just you and I) have discussed this topic in the past. Actually I cited a lot of research demonstrating no relationship between vaccinations (MMR particularly) and autism. Here's that last thread

    Just to name a couple who have been especially vocal...

    Dr. Joe Albietz - Assistant Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Colorodo School of Medicine

    Dr. Steven Novella - Assistant Professor and Director of General Neurology at Yale University School of Medicine

    I know you're going to reply, but I am planning on using this thread for all future anti-vaxxer type information so a warning/request is in order: Please keep your comments here limited to that topic because I will remove them otherwise.

    Leave a comment:


  • KanadaHye
    replied
    Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

    The U.K. and the U.S. are the worst rated in the industrial world in terms of sexual education, rate of teen pregnancies and STD's. They are an easy target for pharmaceuticals. They are also both the pioneers of the "war on terror" and partners in meddling in the middle east and the oil business. Neither Shermer or Bill Maher are medical practioners, their opinion matters to me as much as TV Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vaccinations (Countering the misinformation of Anti-Vaxx Movement)

    Shermer wrote a public letter to Bill Maher about his crazy anti-vaxx beliefs.

    Originally posted by Michael Shermer
    An Open Letter to Bill Maher on Vaccinations
    by Michael Shermer
    An Open Letter to Bill Maher on Vaccinations

    From a Fellow Skeptic

    By Michael Shermer
    Editor of Skeptic magazine and “Skeptic” columnist for Scientific American

    Dear Bill,

    Years ago you invited me to appear as a fellow skeptic several times on your ABC show Politically Incorrect, and I have ever since shared your skepticism on so many matters important to both of us: creationism and intelligent design, religious supernaturalism and New Age paranormal piffle, 9/11 “truthers”, Obama “birthers”, and all manner of conspiratorial codswallop. On these matters, and many others, you rightly deserved the Richard Dawkins Award from Atheist Alliance International.

    However, I believe that when it comes to alternative medicine in general and vaccinations in particular you have fallen prey to the same cognitive biases and conspiratorial thinking that you have so astutely identified in others. In fact, the very principle of how vaccinations work is additional proof (as if we needed more) against the creationists that evolution happened and that natural selection is real: vaccinations work by tricking the body’s immune system into thinking that it has already had the disease for which the vaccination was given. Our immune system “adapts” to the invading pathogens and “evolves” to fight them, such that when it encounters a biologically similar pathogen (which itself may have evolved) it has in its armory the weapons needed to fight it. This is why many of us born in the 1950s and before may already have some immunity against the H1N1 flu because of its genetic similarity to earlier influenza viruses, and why many of those born after really should get vaccinated.

    Vaccinations are not 100% effective, nor are they risk free. But the benefits far outweigh the risks, and when communities in the U.S. and the U.K. in recent years have foregone vaccinations in large numbers, herd immunity is lost and communicable diseases have come roaring back. This is yet another example of evolution at work, but in this case it is working against us. (See www.sciencebasedmedicine.org for numerous articles answering every one of the objections to vaccinations.)

    Vaccination is one of science’s greatest discoveries. It is with considerable irony, then, that as a full-throated opponent of the nonsense that calls itself Intelligent Design, your anti-vaccination stance makes you something of an anti-evolutionist. Since you have been so vocal in your defense of the theory of evolution, I implore you to be consistent in your support of the theory across all domains and to please reconsider your position on vaccinations. It was not unreasonable to be a vaccination skeptic in the 1880s, which the co-discovered of natural selection—Alfred Russel Wallace—was, but we’ve learned a lot over the past century. Evolution explains why vaccinations work. Please stop denying evolution in this special case.

    As well, Bill, your comments about not wanting to “trust the government” to inject us with a potentially deadly virus, along with many comments you have made about “big pharma” being in cahoots with the AMA and the CDC to keep us sick in the name of corporate profits is, in every way that matters, indistinguishable from 9/11 conspiracy mongering. Your brilliant line about how we know that the Bush administration did not orchestrate 9/11 (“because it worked”), applies here: the idea that dozens or hundreds pharmaceutical executives, AMA directors, CDC doctors, and corporate CEOs could pull off a conspiracy to keep us all sick in the name of money and power makes about as much sense as believing that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their bureaucratic apparatchiks planted explosive devices in the World Trade Center and flew remote controlled planes into the buildings.

    Finally, Bill, please consider the odd juxtaposition of your enthusiastic support for health care reform and government intervention into this aspect of our medical lives, with your skepticism that these same people—when it comes to vaccinations and disease prevention—suddenly lose their sense of morality along with their medical training. You excoriate the political right for not trusting the government with our health, and then in the next breath you inadvertently join their chorus when you denounce vaccinations, thereby adding fodder for their ideological cannons. Please remember that it’s the same people administrating both health care and vaccination programs.

    One of the most remarkable features of science is that it often leads its practitioners to change their minds and to say “I was wrong.” Perhaps we don’t do it enough, as our own blinders and egos can get in the way, but it does happen, and it certainly happens a lot more in science than it does in religion or politics. I’ve done it. I used to be a global warming skeptic, but I reconsidered the evidence and announced in Scientific American that I was wrong. Please reconsider both the evidence for vaccinations, as well as the inconsistencies in your position, and think about doing one of the bravest and most honorable things any critical thinker can do, and that is to publicly state, “I changed my mind. I was wrong.”

    With respect,

    Michael Shermer
Working...
X