The Ottomans

[Eddo211]

Re: The Ottomans

We were warriors who became slaves.....not anymore.
Turkey's time will come, we have seen this many times with other invaders of our lands.

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

Shouldn't that be titled "ARMENIAN etiquette"? Wasn't Ottoman etiquette just to send in some Kurds with sharp knives?

Maybe. Armenian etiquette was probably based on Ottoman etiquette (minus sending someone with knives - Armenians had no political power and had none of the self-confidence that the ottomans had). Remember, like it or not the ottomans become role models. For centuries Armenians were like an island in an ottoman sea

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

We died with the Bible in our hands and never abandoned our Christian Belief ..Both in The old and the new tastemant.This is Unshakable power.

It is easy to say that, when you don't have a yataghan pressed against your throat! Fact is, down the centuries tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of Armenians converted into Islam, not just during the genocide. Who can blame them? Also, the ottomans offered excellent career progression to those who became Muslims. Armenians are career minded people. The Ottoman empire was very powerful between around 1400 to 1700. Armenians have done well in foreign empires (Persian, Byzantine, Arab, Russian etc)

Re: The Ottomans

Of all of Armenia's neighbors and occupying powers, the Ottomans have probably had the greatest effect on Armenian mentality, psychology, way of life etc. Even now, on a given day, thousands of Armenians all over the world will tell each other 14th century Turkish folk philospher/homorist Nasreddin Hodja's wisecrack stories

In my opinion No other foreign people have influenced Armenian Life more than the
xxxish People.Armenian Conversion to Christianity had the Most Lastin influence.The
Ottomans with their genocide could not shake our Faith.We died with the Bible in our hands and never abandoned our Christian Belief ..Both in The old and the new tastemant.This is Unshakable power.

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

The Ottoman architect Sinan (believed to have been Armenian), from the Wiki

According to contemporary biographer, Mustafa Sâi Çelebi, Sinan was born in 1489 (c. 1490 according to the Encyclopĉdia Britannica [3] and 1491 according to the Dictionary of Islamic Architecture [9]) with the name Joseph. He was born either an Armenian[10][11] or a Greek[12][13][14] in a small town called Aghurnas (present-day Mimarsinanköy) near the city of Kayseri in Anatolia (as stated in an order by Sultan Selim II).[15] One argument that lends credence to his Armenian background is a letter he wrote to Selim II in 1573, asking the Sultan to spare his relatives from the general exile of Kayseri's Armenian community to the island of Cyprus.[10][16] The scholars who support the thesis of his Greek background have identified his father as a stonemason and carpenter by the name of Christos (Greek "Χρήστος"), a common Greek name meaning Christ.[17][18] It is also probable that he had both Greek and Armenian relatives (from his paternal and maternal families) since both ethnic groups had large communities in the Kayseri area during that period. All that is certain is that they were of the Eastern Orthodox Christian faith, since the Ottoman archives of that epoch recorded only religion information about religion. The concept of ethnicity was irrelevant to the religion-based Ottoman Millet system.

Sinan (Joseph) grew up helping his father in his work, and by the time that he was conscripted would have had a good grounding in the practicalities of buildng work.[9] There are three brief records in the library of the Topkapı Palace, dictated by Sinan to his friend Mustafa Sâi Çelebi. (Anonymous Text; Architectural Masterpieces; Book of Architecture). In these manuscripts, Sinan divulges some details of his youth and military career. His father is mentioned as "Abdülmenan" or "Abdullāh" (Arabic عبد الله), meaning Servant of God and are anonyms for the Christian fathers of Muslim converts.

[edit] Military career
Mimar Sinan bust in Ankara
In 1512, Sinan was conscripted into Ottoman service via the devshirme system.[5][15] He went to Constantinople as a recruit of the Janissary Corps, and converted to Islam.[15] He was too old (over twenty-one years) to be admitted to the imperial Enderun School in the Topkapı Palace but was sent instead to an auxiliary school.[15] Some records claim that he might have served the Grand Vizier İbrahim Paşa as a novice of the Ibrahim Pasha School. Possibly, he was given the Islamic name Sinan there. He initially learned carpentry and mathematics but through his intellectual qualities and ambitions, he soon assisted the leading architects and got his training as an architect.[15]

During the next six years, he also trained to be a Janissary officer (acemioğlan). He possibly joined Selim I in his last military campaign, Rhodes according to some sources, but when the Sultan died, this project ended. Two years later he witnessed the conquest of Belgrade. He was present, as a member of the Household Cavalry, in the Battle of Mohács, led by the new sultan Suleiman the Magnificent. He was promoted to captain of the Royal Guard and then given command of the Infantry Cadet Corps. He was later stationed in Austria, where he commanded the 62nd Orta of the Rifle Corps.[15] He became a master of archery, while at the same time, as an architect, learning the weak points of structures when gunning them down. In 1535 he participated in the Baghdad campaign as a commanding officer of the Royal Guard. In 1537 he went on expedition to Corfu and Apulia and finally to Moldavia.[19]

During all these campaigns he had proven himself a trained engineer and an able architect. When the Ottoman army captured Cairo, Sinan was promoted to chief architect and was given the privilege of tearing down any buildings in the captured city that were not according to the city plan.[citation needed] During the campaign in the East, he assisted in the building of defences and bridges, such as a bridge across the Danube. He converted churches into mosques. During the Persian campaign in 1535 he built ships for the army and the artillery to cross Lake Van. For this he was given the title Haseki'i, Sergeant-at-Arms in the body guard of the Sultan, a rank equivalent to that of the Janissary Ağa.

When Chelebi Lütfi Pasha became Grand Vizier in 1539, he appointed Sinan, who had previously served under his command, Architect of the Abode of Felicity. This was the start of a remarkable career. It was his task to supervise the constructions and the flow of supplies within the Ottoman empire. He was also responsible for the design and construction of public works, such as roads, waterworks and bridges. Through the years he transformed his office into that of Architect of the Empire, an elaborate government department, with greater powers than his supervising minister. He became the head of a whole Corps of Court Architects, training a team of assistants, deputies and pupils.

[edit] Work
His training as an army engineer gave Sinan rather an empirical approach to architecture than a theoretical one. But the same can be said of the great Western Renaissance architects, such as Brunelleschi and Michelangelo.

Various sources state that Sinan was the architect of around 360 structures which included 84 mosques, 51 small mosques ("mescit"), 57 schools of theology ("medrese") 7 schools for Koran reciters ("darülkurra"), 22 mausoleums ("türbe"), 17 Alm Houses ("imaret"), 3 hospitals ("darüşşifa"), 7 aqueducts and arches, 48 inns ("caravansary"), 35 palaces and mansions, 8 vaults and 46 baths. Sinan, who held the position of chief architect of the palace, which meant being the top manager of construction works of the Ottoman Empire, for nearly 50 years, worked with a large team of assistants consisting of architects and master builders.

[Eddo211]

Re: The Ottomans

Wasn't Ottoman etiquette just to send in some Kurds with sharp knives?

No....there are only so many throats you can cut by yourself, Kurds was a way to expedite (among other reasons). Same policy in Azerbaijan using their minority against Armenians.

[Joseph]

Re: The Ottomans

bell has a point. Don't forget Armenians living under the Ottomans for 600 years inevitably/unconsciously adopted Ottoman ways

Agree. Baliozian and Bell are partially correct. The Ottoman experience brought out some of the worst characteristics in Armenians and it rears its head from time to times. Our petty jealousies against one another, split in the church, rage, self pity, assimilation, etc.

We see it here quite often. When someone makes a mistake or we disagree, it seems all hell breaks lose. This does not help our cause.

Had Armenians cooperated, unified, worked in tandem, been more guarded of outsiders, not depended on others much more could have been overcome in past. Of course all is not lost and it is going to take for this "Ottomanization" dissipate and it already has in Artsakh. Each Armenian has to instill in himself/herself and his/her family the right to struggle, cooperate, show kindness, build intellect, build strength, be analytical, be honest, and forward thinking. Small victories will build momentum, again Artsakh is an example and that war cannot be lost by any means.

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

No, it is scottish.

bell has a point. Don't forget Armenians living under the Ottomans for 600 years inevitably/unconsciously adopted Ottoman ways

[Armanen]

Re: The Ottomans

Shouldn't that be titled "ARMENIAN etiquette"? Wasn't Ottoman etiquette just to send in some Kurds with sharp knives?

No, it is scottish.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: The Ottomans

OTTOMAN ETIQUETTE (by Ara Baliozian)
*****************************
If you don't like the message,
kill the messenger;
if you can't kill him, insult him;
if he ignores your insults,
drag him down into the gutter
where you may have the upper hand;
if he refuses to join you there
sling mud at him and keep slinging
in the hope some of it may stick.
Above all do not give up.
Keep trying.
Set your goal at his total destruction
even if it means destroying yourself in the process.
*

Shouldn't that be titled "ARMENIAN etiquette"? Wasn't Ottoman etiquette just to send in some Kurds with sharp knives?