The Ottomans

[hipeter924]

Re: We are not empire seekers

Dear Karo,

It is the artificially fabricated bogus state of fake “Azerbaijan” which was fraudulently counterfeited on Armenian territory in 1918 that's occupying 20% Armenian land and not vice versa. The true limits of Artsakh province were almost twice the size of all the liberated territories including NKR. I have dealt with this in detail in my thingy and especially this myth of control of “Azeri” land is nothing but Turk baloney. Let them show a single internationally valid document that shows Artsakh (or Nakhijevan for that matter) as part of fake “Azerbaijan”.

Even according to international law, their claims have absolutely no basis. It's just the treachery and double standards of the “international” community that have given them a case against us. The “negotiations” aim at nothing else than usurpation of legally Armenian territory for the sore loser side with the help of their all time Judeo-Saxon friends.

This is why I never liked the UN or its sub bodies, they are corrupt and hypocritical. Why should you be surprised about how the UN treats Armenia, after all the oil for food program in Iraq (and the sanctions that refused Iraq medicine for treating disease) showed the UN is prepared to murder 500,00-1,000,000 Iraqi children for oil. They white wash this today, reality is that the UN is guilty of many genocides by doing nothing or actively participating in them.

If you want to get Armenia back you will have to fight for it, the international community will never care for Armenia. What I don't understand is why Armenia does not declare war on the Azeri's and Turk's and take Western and Eastern Armenia back as every day Turk's and Azeri's threaten war and repress and murder Armenian's and that is justification enough.

Armenia is better on the battlefield than at a negotiating table with nations who would take pleasure in dividing and destroying Armenia to help Turkey achieve its Pan-Turkic aims. That's the way I see it anyway. This is why they want the territory of Artasakh so badly, because they want to use salami tactics and destroy Armenia slice by slice in the same way that the European powers divided and crippled Czechoslovakia and handed it to Hitler on a plate for conquest.

If Armenia hands Artaskh to the Azeri's, half of Armenia proper will be next. They will never rest until they wipe the Armenian nation off the face of the Earth. There can be no discussion for peace with such paranoid and extreme nationalists that exist today in Turkey and Azerbajian, you can't negotiate for peace with a new age Hitler or Young Turk.

[crusader1492]

Re: We are not empire seekers

And something of a record to have an OP still with a thread two years after its inception, and for a thread to run to 11 pages in those two years even though our resident perfect being (anonymouse) claimed at its outset that the OP's post had "no purpose".

Sweet vindication! You go girl!

[bell-the-cat]

Re: We are not empire seekers

A lot of interesting posts on this thread...

And something of a record to have an OP still with a thread two years after its inception, and for a thread to run to 11 pages in those two years even though our resident perfect being (anonymouse) claimed at its outset that the OP's post had "no purpose".

[lampron]

Re: We are not empire seekers

Dear Karo,

It is the artificially fabricated bogus state of fake “Azerbaijan” which was fraudulently counterfeited on Armenian territory in 1918 that's occupying 20% Armenian land and not vice versa. The true limits of Artsakh province were almost twice the size of all the liberated territories including NKR. I have dealt with this in detail in my thingy and especially this myth of control of “Azeri” land is nothing but Turk baloney. Let them show a single internationally valid document that shows Artsakh (or Nakhijevan for that matter) as part of fake “Azerbaijan”.

Even according to international law, their claims have absolutely no basis. It's just the treachery and double standards of the “international” community that have given them a case against us. The “negotiations” aim at nothing else than usurpation of legally Armenian territory for the sore loser side with the help of their all time Judeo-Saxon friends.

A lot of interesting posts on this thread, it's been a while, but on the question of Azerbaijan and whether it's an artificial country, this is my take.
It's true that there was no Azerbaijan before 1918 and it's quite possible that without an Ottoman invasion such a state might not have existed.
On the other hand, the Caucasian Tatars who were mainly Shia and spoke a Turkish dialect would probably have eventually come together as a political and religious entity over some territory where they formed a majority (but not including Baku where before 1918 they were a minority)
As the Ottomans turned their attention east (having been mostly forced out of the Balkans), the concept of Azerbaijani nationalism was to their advantage

[CRDA-France]

Re: The Ottomans

Some links on Ottoman-Armenian relations [ http://www.google.fr/language_tools?hl=fr ] :

http://www.globalarmenianheritage-adic.fr/fr/6histoire/par_pays/turquie00.htm

Nil (Paris)
#8724

[Hellektor]

Re: The Ottomans

"Good". So Mr. James Holding wants to make a myth out of Christ and a Jewish myth of course! (created by Jews) Pure nonsense.

I know that He's been compared to many mythical figures but again as I said Christ has a different nature; He is a true "myth" for me. Look what C.S. Lewis (the Christian mythologist) had to say on all this: "The story of Christ is simply a true myth: a myth working on us in the same way as the others, but with this tremendous difference that it really happened."

Dear Lucin,

I do not want to give the impression that I am arguing or I am disrespectful towards certain beliefs. Elsewhere, I have expressed that I support the role of the Armenian Church during centuries where we had no independent state and also all the great church figures from Mashtotz, Sahak Partev, Nerses Shnorhali to Khrimian Hyrik and Komitas. Mer Kristoneutyunn urish e.

What I'm saying is, and I don't know where the confusion is, the story of Jesus' life and his miracles come from mythology OLDER than Christianity. When I gave you those links, I had just browsed those pages and I did not care for the authors. The truth is the virgin birth, the names Jesus, Christ, Lazarus, Joseph, walking on water, healing the blind, bringing the dead to life, feeding thousands with little food, 12 disciples, crucifixion, resurrection, etc., etc., all are COPIED by the creators of Christianity from those OLDER myths.

Logic tells us that if a myth/story having existed a thousand years before something else is repeated WORD FOR WORD a thousand years later, there is no chance at all that the OLDER myth has copied the one that had to happen a thousand years later.

While I do not believe in the historic truth of this figure let alone all the copied myths created in the later centuries after his supposed existence, believing that a good man existed who preached good things and was called Jesus is not a bad thing as far as I'm concerned, as long as the believer does not force their beliefs on the others in the manner of Inquisition.

I hadn't heard of this project of him but yea he indeed had many other huge plans for Iran in his head, one of them being the Olympic Games…

They distributed a book for free in the schools written by him called Besuye Tamaddone Bozorg sometime in the 1350's Shamsi where he explained his visions for Iran. There was also this thing called the White Revolution (Enghelabe Sefide Shah o Mardom, 1341 Shamsi) info regarding which may be possible to find on the net. I have never searched for it. There were several revolutionary projects that were also put in practice, all of which were quite socialistic for a monarchy like Iran.

Perhaps… and now we have the other 'extreme'. I think usually it's following such 'extremities' that we experience a sudden downfall right after, a 'revolution' in this case…

You say approximately the same thing that I am saying. It was too soon for this society and the revolution was more because of this, i.e. AGAINST freedom rather than FOR it.

Today, it's far better than those early days and it was getting better & better day by day until Inghadinejad tried to derail the course of events. And I do not criticize him much for this, that I do for his so-called economic "plans" that proved to be disastrous for the country…

Okay, I think we are crossing the red line. Zaban-e sorkh dahad sar-e sabz bar bad?

I do not agree entirely on this. Today it is no better; it is only that the technological advances have made it more difficult for them to control the people. An example: I download all the music I like whenever I feel like it, while in those dark days we had to wait for a limited number of new vinyl albums that were brought into the country by the music traders who traveled to Europe three or four times a year and copied and distributed them on cassettes, an activity that was normal before the catastrophe and was illegal in the days of the mullahs. OK, let's stop this before we lose our heads.

Oh, the sweeper! He is just a scapegoat figure (a matarsak) they have set up so that we all blame him and forget the real culprits and creators of our tragedy that's been going on for the last thirty years. The seven tooman dollar did not become 935 toomans in his days, right?

[Hellektor]

Re: We are not empire seekers

Don't forgot beside of Artsakh we control 10% of fake Azerbajan.

Dear Karo,

It is the artificially fabricated bogus state of fake “Azerbaijan” which was fraudulently counterfeited on Armenian territory in 1918 that's occupying 20% Armenian land and not vice versa. The true limits of Artsakh province were almost twice the size of all the liberated territories including NKR. I have dealt with this in detail in my thingy and especially this myth of control of “Azeri” land is nothing but Turk baloney. Let them show a single internationally valid document that shows Artsakh (or Nakhijevan for that matter) as part of fake “Azerbaijan”.

Even according to international law, their claims have absolutely no basis. It's just the treachery and double standards of the “international” community that have given them a case against us. The “negotiations” aim at nothing else than usurpation of legally Armenian territory for the sore loser side with the help of their all time Judeo-Saxon friends.

[Hellektor]

Re: We are not empire seekers

Dear Hellektor,

I totally agree with each and every statement you made above, here and everywhere. As an Armenian patriotic individual I believe that you are truly an Armenian spokesman and the voice of truth on all the websites that you do visit. You know your history and the characteristics of our enemy very well. I read your posts and it always delights me to read your thoughts and brainstorms.

Dear Anoush,

I am flattered and a bit embarrassed. Since like most of us normal mortals, I do not have access to other media, I am doing what is in my possibilities and fortunately the internet has given us the opportunity to share our thoughts.

A while back you have mentioned in one post that why Armenia doesn't do something when the azeri army dogs demolished in broad daylight our 1,500 Xachkars in Naxichevan. Then I just read above what you actually meant by it then. Meaning why didn't Armenia capitalize on it and fought for that part of OUR country "Naxichevan" to be our own again; it would have been a great timing for us and it would've made a great sense, but alas Armenia didn't do anything about it. How right you are and it's a sheer shame that we stood still. What did the Europeans or America do? Nothing. But we could have done something about it then by making it our own AGAIN. I thought then that you meant Armenia should have the azeris pay for their vandalisms and getting scorned by world powers. But you meant then a much better solution for us but we didn't capitalize on it.

I have repeatedly expressed my disgust and amazement at our indifference and that of the so-called civilized world concerning the destruction of Armenian heritage. As far as the khachkars are concerned I have dedicated a heading in And the Fraud...

Yes, we are so clumsy and indifferent regarding our treasures. The least the Armenian government could have done was to dispatch a helicopter gunship to kill those soldiers who were destroying the khachkars and believe me, the oh so biased “international” community would never have dared condemn it or even admonish the RoA for that. What? The “Azeri” garbage was going to howl, “we were destroying their monuments to erase any evidence of Armenian presence and those bloodthirsty Armenians prevented the peaceful, civilized destruction of the centuries old cultural site” ???

Not even that, they could have protested and stopped the “negotiations” on ceding territory to the sore “Azeri” losers until proper investigation was carried out and the genocidal vermin punished for the vandalism. No one had the right to condemn that. But what did our statesmen do? Nothing, not a damn thing…

I am almost convinced the 70 years of the imposed Abrahamic religion of Marxism have turned most of the citizens of the Republic of Armenia into Soviet men/women. They kind of don't care a hang about whatever is outside the “girl's profile” as if the genocidal drawing of Soviet Armenian borders were the true and unchangeable limits of Armenia.

Not 1500, but more than 2700 khachkars and a great number of horizontal and ram shaped tombstones still survived until the final destruction. For details on numbers you can search the relevant sites and also look here and here.

I remember years ago my father used to read how the azeri dogs would mistreat and mutilize Armenian boys and girls in and around Artsax; then called azerbaijan thanks to another dog called Stalin. How can any Armenian feel safe around those dogy dog esheg azeris? And why did Armenia and Artsax's autonomy after winning the war agreed to sever the province from the motherland Armenia? Frankly I don't know that part of the history and I get upset everytime that I see the Artsaxian map separated from the motherland. Can't we do something about it and make it part of Armenia? We should; otherwise it's stupid.

The Artsakh war and genocide were results of the sonofabitchery of the “international” community by not recognizing the referendum for independence from the USSR, according to all applicable international and Soviet law, in Artsakh while recognizing that in fake “Azerbaijan” which resulted in the coming into being of two sovereign states on the territory fake “Azerbaijan” wrongly claims as “Azeri”. The reason Armenians had resorted to creating an independent NKR rather than reunification was the sonofabitchery of the Bolshevik tyranny and the sonofabitch Gorbachev in illegally preventing the just demand of the Armenians to mend the Lenin/Kemal/Stalin sonofabitchery of forceful usurpation of Artsakh and its offering to a mere 3 year old fake “Azerbaijan” in 1921.

Here also the Soviet mentality prevails and as if the “baby” separated from the “girl's profile” were the natural border limit of Artsakh. I have also dealt with all this and treacherous drawing of NKAO borders (hence, the artificial separation of Artsakh from Armenia by the genocidal “Azeri” parasites) in more detail in And the Fraud...

P.S. Please don't call those Inhuman Culture-deficiency Viruses dogs. Poor dogs! I sometimes call them wolves or hyenas but those poor animals are only behaving according to their instincts and do not pretend they are human.

[Lucin]

Re: The Ottomans

I wasn't talking about Mithra and Zoroaster. There are mythological characters in many cultures whose stories have been adapted by Christians in order not to sever their ties with their “pagan” past.

Gnerally speaking I am not a big fan of wiki especially as far as politics are concerned, I make an exception here:
Jesus Christ in comparative mythology

Check this too or do your own Googling

"Good". So Mr. James Holding wants to make a myth out of Christ and a Jewish myth of course! (created by Jews) Pure nonsense.

I know that He's been compared to many mythical figures but again as I said Christ has a different nature; He is a true "myth" for me. Look what C.S. Lewis (the Christian mythologist) had to say on all this: "The story of Christ is simply a true myth: a myth working on us in the same way as the others, but with this tremendous difference that it really happened."

C'est pas grave! Everybody knows what Achtung means, right

My God... how many languages do you know?

I am not anti-Shah, he was definitely not acting as a puppet in the latter years of his rule. I am pro truth. Some people have pictured the Shah as a ruthless demon, what is total baloney and falsification of history.

One instance: there was this project introduced by the Shah, namely “Taghzieh Raigan” where every single day for all the nine school months they would distribute fruit, milk, biscuits or a cake in EVERY school all over Iran for FREE. He obviously wanted to see every Iranian kid fed well and he wanted to shut out the possibility of malnutrition and undernourished children in Iran. Is this bad? I have to hear a communist say ONE good thing about the Shah. They only associate him with SAVAK, but this free distribution of essential nutrition was a “communist” thing or what? I know for a fact that such a program has not been put to practice even in Switzerland.

I hadn't heard of this project of him but yea he indeed had many other huge plans for Iran in his head, one of them being the Olympic Games…

Men and women were not separated anywhere not at school, not in buses, not in the swimming pool, not on the beach. There was almost no unemployment and everything was so cheap that anyone could buy a home after a few years from the start of their career. Women were allowed to sing, to travel alone, to wear whatever they liked. You had chadoris and women in mini skirts walking in the same street and I truly believe the “revolution” was because of this “excessive” freedom and a sudden surge of a higher middle class.

Perhaps… and now we have the other 'extreme'. I think usually it's following such 'extremities' that we experience a sudden downfall right after, a 'revolution' in this case…


Today, it's far better than those early days and it was getting better & better day by day until Inghadinejad tried to derail the course of events. And I do not criticize him much for this, that I do for his so-called economic "plans" that proved to be disastrous for the country…

Okay, I think we are crossing the red line. Zaban-e sorkh dahad sar-e sabz bar bad?

I vehemently reject the delirious pretence of those (mainly commies) who claim the people were on to a socialist revolution and it was hijacked by the Islamists helped by the West and BBC. Pure, 48 carat, non-polishable, stinking croc of horse shit.

LOL, I absolutely agree with you but you know how popular this "theory" amongst our people is. How the hell do they come up with such nonesense? It indeed makes me laugh and I'd call these people the real conspiracy theorists…

[KarotheGreat]

Re: We are not empire seekers

Dear Hellektor,

I totally agree with each and every statement you made above, here and everywhere. As an Armenian patriotic individual I believe that you are truly an Armenian spokesman and the voice of truth on all the websites that you do visit. You know your history and the characteristics of our enemy very well. I read your posts and it always delights me to read your thoughts and brainstorms. A while back you have mentioned in one post that why Armenia doesn't do something when the azeri army dogs demolished in broad daylight our 1,500 Xachkars in Naxichevan. Then I just read above what you actually meant by it then. Meaning why didn't Armenia capitalize on it and fought for that part of OUR country "Naxichevan" to be our own again; it would have been a great timing for us and it would've made a great sense, but alas Armenia didn't do anything about it. How right you are and it's a sheer shame that we stood still. What did the Europeans or America do? Nothing. But we could have done something about it then by making it our own AGAIN. I thought then that you meant Armenia should have the azeris pay for their vandalisms and getting scorned by world powers. But you meant then a much better solution for us but we didn't capitalize on it.

I remember years ago my father used to read how the azeri dogs would mistreat and mutilize Armenian boys and girls in and around Artsax; then called azerbaijan thanks to another dog called Stalin. How can any Armenian feel safe around those dogy dog esheg azeris? And why did Armenia and Artsax's autonomy after winning the war agreed to sever the province from the motherland Armenia? Frankly I don't know that part of the history and I get upset everytime that I see the Artsaxian map separated from the motherland. Can't we do something about it and make it part of Armenia? We should; otherwise it's stupid.

Anoush jan, I too agree that the goverment should have done something about the cultural genocide in Naxichevan.

About Artsakh, Armenian soldliers control a corridor that connects Armenia and Artsakh. Don't forgot beside of Artsakh we control 10% of fake Azerbajan.

I congradulate you for your astonishment about nahichevan is very logical but equally there is a truth of incapacity about the armenian authorities who are running armenia the past 15 years or more.As far as if we will not be able to produce a strong leader of solid capacity of thinking that indipendence is not a matter that one cant buy in USA nor Russian market for our nation will be the very important feature to start with.This political figure should promote an autstanding ability to manupulate and play with the dominant two rival powers such as Russia and USA to reach our important national goals .Our prime target is for the time beeing will be important to put on the shelf the genocide matter and make a pact temporarly with turkey .Than without loosing time we conqure the Javah to have our stratejical bleack sea port and haveing reach an important mutual understanding with turkey we occupay the nahichevan immidiately and get kick out all the azzery cattels out our land.Turkey will not oppose this movment since the famous armenian question will be out of agenda for some time.Mean while our best bet will be collobration with China,which is the new reality for of ald fashon Russia or crippled USA.All we need a leader who will not be inspired by Russia or USA that is all,the rest will come easy.